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      08-27-2007, 12:19 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post




Not sure whether these are Jerez... any ideas, anyone?
It's hard to tell, but I'd say there is a remote possibility this might be Interlagos blue.
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      08-27-2007, 12:24 PM   #90
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It does look like Interlagos, but the picture is so bad it could just be emphasising the blue/purple in Jerez.

Interestingly, if it is IB, then they've gone for Fox Red interior which I think will look good.
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      08-27-2007, 12:32 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Maybe you are misreading the sentiment or mispricing Porsches?

I was sitting in this car this weekend:

http://rietzl.porschedealer.com/new_...ntoryid=275240

PASM, Sport design wheels, BOSE (for better or worse LOL), Xenon, heated seats. MSRP $79,350. Easily done at $75K. Not the power of an "S" or an E92 M3, but still an amazing car, its a Porsche afterall, and exactly the same price as the M3 with equivalent options or so we assume.

An "S" with options that matter is about $91K. That's Metallic Paint, Sports Chrono and Sport Exhaust. Get rid of the Bose crap and it is under 90K. After discount you are probably at ~84-85K. With 10K of the M3 which won't discount in 2008. for those of us who can afford it, why would you not be considering it? Why not discuss it?

BMW is setting themselves up for this comparison, not the buyer.
I think Swamp is referring to those who say the new M3 is too expensive in an absolute sense -- not for what you get compared to a Porsche or any other car -- but then say they will buy a Porsche instead. In other words if the new M3 is unaffordable, then a more expensive car logically must also be unaffordable.

Even in a relative sense, I could not see going with a standard 997 instead of an M3, even if the prices are the same. I know that even in standard non-S form the 997 is a formidable car, but I personally would not choose it over an M3.

But if there is only a small difference in price between a new M3 and a new 997S or even a low mileage one year old 997S, then the M3 becomes harder to justify (unless you need four really useable seats). I cannot see that happening, though, if BMW is really planning on selling 100k M3s.
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      08-27-2007, 12:38 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Easily done at $75K...exactly the same price as the M3 with equivalent options or so we assume.
I think there is a better chance of that being incorrect than it being correct.
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      08-27-2007, 12:50 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I think there is a better chance of that being incorrect than it being correct.
Based on 6speedonline polls, you can pretty much count on 4% discounts around the country. Some got 6% and a few "claimed" 8-10% but that sound pretty dubious IMO.

Regarding the base model - I'm sure I'd miss the torque of the 3.8L. I don't track though. Reading about the C2S vs the C2 on the internet is one thing. Spending some time in a so called lowly C2 is another. Its an impressive car. My 01 M3 was fast and never left me wanting more. Look at the C2 specs. 4.8s. Sound familiar?

I'm not doing anything until I drive the M3, but I like smaller, responsive cars that are fun to drive. The e46 felt that way. I drove the 335i and found it pretty ponderous.
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      08-27-2007, 01:00 PM   #94
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[quote=ILC32;1329257]I know that even in standard non-S form the 997 is a formidable car, but I personally would not choose it over an M3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Reading about the C2S vs the C2 on the internet is one thing. Spending some time in a so called lowly C2 is another. Its an impressive car. My 01 M3 was fast and never left me wanting more. Look at the C2 specs. 4.8s. Sound familiar?
I am not saying the standard 997 is lowly or not impressive. I don't recall anyone else saying that in this thread either.
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      08-27-2007, 01:05 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Based on 6speedonline polls, you can pretty much count on 4% discounts around the country. Some got 6% and a few "claimed" 8-10% but that sound pretty dubious IMO.
I don't doubt the discounts. I do doubt the $75k M3.
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      08-27-2007, 01:32 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I don't doubt the discounts. I do doubt the $75k M3.
If it options out to 65K (without NAV) then the Porsche is a moot discussion really. I just keep thinking that they are prepping us for p-car pricing when they compared the M3 to the 997 in sales literature. Unfortunately I think the car will base at 65 or so which certainly invites the comparision.
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      08-27-2007, 04:07 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
If it options out to 65K (without NAV) then the Porsche is a moot discussion really. I just keep thinking that they are prepping us for p-car pricing when they compared the M3 to the 997 in sales literature. Unfortunately I think the car will base at 65 or so which certainly invites the comparision.
The comparison from my perspective goes like this: The Porsche 911 is a great car but not very practical for me (I need more than a two seater). The M3 is also a great car but not in the same league as the 911, IMO (especially if next year's 911 is enhanced without a significant increase in price). So, if the M3 ends up pricing out comparably to the C2, for example, I would have to look at other options - IMO, the price value would not be there for the M3; The same goes for the other cars mentioned like the RS4 and C63. My alternative would be to purchase a less performance oriented car but still a great all around daily driver like the 335i for around $50K, or maybe even the S4. Can't beat the looks, handling and performance of these cars for $50k.
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      08-27-2007, 07:50 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carnuts3 View Post
The comparison from my perspective goes like this: The Porsche 911 is a great car but not very practical for me (I need more than a two seater). The M3 is also a great car but not in the same league as the 911, IMO (especially if next year's 911 is enhanced without a significant increase in price). So, if the M3 ends up pricing out comparably to the C2, for example, I would have to look at other options - IMO, the price value would not be there for the M3; The same goes for the other cars mentioned like the RS4 and C63. My alternative would be to purchase a less performance oriented car but still a great all around daily driver like the 335i for around $50K, or maybe even the S4. Can't beat the looks, handling and performance of these cars for $50k.
A few things - the 911 is actually a 4 seater if you are thinking kids - I fit my son in the back (he is 6) and put myself in my driving position. There was still 3 inches to his legs and I'm 6 feet tall.

Also - don't forget the e46 M3 with the Comp Package. In CPO the car has a warranty though 2012 and it is a far better car than the plain jane 335i. In a few years the 335i will be just another 3 series with wheels that can't fill the rear wells while the M3 will always be an M. Something special. Currently goes for around 45K - 52K so its right on the money.
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      08-27-2007, 10:10 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
A few things - the 911 is actually a 4 seater if you are thinking kids - I fit my son in the back (he is 6) and put myself in my driving position. There was still 3 inches to his legs and I'm 6 feet tall.

Also - don't forget the e46 M3 with the Comp Package. In CPO the car has a warranty though 2012 and it is a far better car than the plain jane 335i. In a few years the 335i will be just another 3 series with wheels that can't fill the rear wells while the M3 will always be an M. Something special. Currently goes for around 45K - 52K so its right on the money.

1) the 911 is not a 4 seater, it's a 2+2. there's a big difference there. the superfluous two seats are there basically for no reason other than to lower your insurance premium. there's a good reason you used your children as your back seat passenger example... because no non-midget-sized adult would ever think or want to sit back there. and really, even a child over 10 would find himself extraordinarily uncomfortable in those back seats, unless of course your child is made of clay. for all intents and purposes, the porsche is a 2 seater.

2) even if you're the type of person who's willing to pay 42-52k for a used bmw, and moreover a used last generation bmw, your warranty under CPO isn't anywhere near as all-encompassing as a new BMW's 4year/50k mile warranty. i also think you'll find there are a substantial percentage of M3 owners who disagree with you about the 335 "being just another bmw", as you'll find there are a great number of e46 M3 owners who've sold their cars for the 335i instead.

- esquire
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      08-28-2007, 06:44 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
1) the 911 is not a 4 seater, it's a 2+2. there's a big difference there. the superfluous two seats are there basically for no reason other than to lower your insurance premium. there's a good reason you used your children as your back seat passenger example... because no non-midget-sized adult would ever think or want to sit back there. and really, even a child over 10 would find himself extraordinarily uncomfortable in those back seats, unless of course your child is made of clay. for all intents and purposes, the porsche is a 2 seater.

2) even if you're the type of person who's willing to pay 42-52k for a used bmw, and moreover a used last generation bmw, your warranty under CPO isn't anywhere near as all-encompassing as a new BMW's 4year/50k mile warranty. i also think you'll find there are a substantial percentage of M3 owners who disagree with you about the 335 "being just another bmw", as you'll find there are a great number of e46 M3 owners who've sold their cars for the 335i instead.

- esquire
I don't know what to tell you - a child will fit just fine. Even a 10 year old. Try it.

It boggles my mind that anyone would sell an M for a regular 3 series but that's ok I guess I drove the 335i. Soft suspension. Weak exhaust note. Rear wheels don't properly fit the rear wheel wells. The car was great for a 3 series but it is no M. Apparently it is fast in a strait line but overall I thought it was pretty soft in favor of lux.
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      08-28-2007, 11:33 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
I don't know what to tell you - a child will fit just fine. Even a 10 year old. Try it.

It boggles my mind that anyone would sell an M for a regular 3 series but that's ok I guess I drove the 335i. Soft suspension. Weak exhaust note. Rear wheels don't properly fit the rear wheel wells. The car was great for a 3 series but it is no M. Apparently it is fast in a strait line but overall I thought it was pretty soft in favor of lux.

+1 Albiet, a great car, but it is what it is.
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      08-28-2007, 10:30 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
It boggles my mind that anyone would sell an M for a regular 3 series but that's ok I guess I drove the 335i. Soft suspension. Weak exhaust note. Rear wheels don't properly fit the rear wheel wells. The car was great for a 3 series but it is no M. Apparently it is fast in a strait line but overall I thought it was pretty soft in favor of lux.
Shh are you trying to summon all the 335/Procede trolls? This thread is soon to be full of graphs from dyno runs of beta software.....
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      08-29-2007, 02:20 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
1) the 911 is not a 4 seater, it's a 2+2.
- esquire
Math genius.

jk.
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      08-29-2007, 06:55 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
1) the 911 is not a 4 seater, it's a 2+2.
Quote:
2+2=5
Winston Smith, 1984
Pics of Jerez Black any time soon would be a cool way to get back on topic!
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      08-29-2007, 07:33 AM   #105
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Shh are you trying to summon all the 335/Procede trolls? This thread is soon to be full of graphs from dyno runs of beta software.....
You've got a point there!
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      08-29-2007, 09:27 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post
Pics of Jerez Black any time soon would be a cool way to get back on topic!
+1
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      08-29-2007, 11:04 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
A few things - the 911 is actually a 4 seater if you are thinking kids - I fit my son in the back (he is 6) and put myself in my driving position. There was still 3 inches to his legs and I'm 6 feet tall.

Also - don't forget the e46 M3 with the Comp Package. In CPO the car has a warranty though 2012 and it is a far better car than the plain jane 335i. In a few years the 335i will be just another 3 series with wheels that can't fill the rear wells while the M3 will always be an M. Something special. Currently goes for around 45K - 52K so its right on the money.
Interesting comments...but. Since my kids are all grown up and long gone, I need the extra adult-sized seats in the rear for us old people. Also, your point about the E46 M3 is without dispute, except that for me, I prefer to lease so that I am always in a new car. Hence, I'm not concerned about how any of my cars are viewed in the future, especially after my lease term expires. I am looking to enjoy my ride at the moment and the 335i could very well fit the bill for me - will have to wait and see. As I said, price-value will drive my decision to a large extent.
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      09-02-2007, 06:20 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post
Pics of Jerez Black any time soon would be a cool way to get back on topic!
I still this this! ukm3? Anyone?
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      09-02-2007, 11:01 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post
I still this this! ukm3? Anyone?
Eastie, this obsession with Jerez is getting to be unhealthy.........

Seriously, if you've ever seen Carbon Black then you've got a VERY good idea of what Jerez looks like.

There does appear to be a purplish sheen to it at times. If you don't mind that get it- otherwise I would pick something else.....
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      09-02-2007, 01:35 PM   #110
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want more pics!!!! ... btw not diggin jerez, dytona violet with some black ???
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