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      08-24-2007, 08:21 AM   #45
mkoesel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I think someone who buys a demo car will/should be aware of the risks.

Best regards, south
+1

The reason why I will never by a car off a lot unless it has literally just come off the truck.
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      08-24-2007, 08:22 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I think someone who buys a demo car will be aware of the risks.

Best regards, south
OK, they will know it has been used as a demo, but why should that mean the run-in procedure hasn't been adhered to?

Why bother even having a run-in procedure if it's OK for demo cars not to stick to it?

My point is there should be procedures put in place for demo cars. Either have them pre run-in, or stick to the run-in procedure until enough miles have been put on the clock.

I'm afraid the vast majority of salesmen, and not just BMW, are not enthusiasts and don't really care about something if ultimately it won't affect them. Hence the response to my initial post from ukm3 as "you live in a perfect world don't you".

As there are unfortunately bad apple mechanics who look at having a performance car to work on and test as a chance to have a bit of fun with somebody else's car. "It's alright, they're meant to have the wheels driven off them."
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      08-24-2007, 08:58 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
OK, they will know it has been used as a demo, but why should that mean the run-in procedure hasn't been adhered to?
Well in principle they should not I suppose.

But in practice, how to you enforce this and still allow the potential buyer to try out the car? In the U.S., for example, a car cannot even be sold as new once it has over a certain amount of miles. I think it is 200, but I could be wrong. Its somewhere around there. This is far less than the required 1000 (or is it 1200?) needed to break in an M3. So the car will automatically be a CPO now, which will cost the dealerships money, which will cause them to push for more profit from BMW, which will raise the MSRP of the car.
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      08-24-2007, 09:01 AM   #48
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The only way to enfore the brake-in procedures would be to allow the customers to test drive the dealer demo cars only. That could be problematic though as the dealers would need to have several demo cars for different configurations.
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      08-24-2007, 09:16 AM   #49
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The only way to enfore the brake-in procedures would be to allow the customers to test drive the dealer demo cars only. That could be problematic though as the dealers would need to have several demo cars for different configurations.


This is what happens now. And then after a while the demo is then sold on as an ex demo.

My point is whilst the buyer will be aware it's an ex demo, they should rightly assume that whilst it's been in the ownership of the dealer, the run-in procedure will have been adhered to. How they show off the car to potential buyers is the dealers problem.
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      08-24-2007, 09:19 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
This is what happens now. And then after a while the demo is then sold on as an ex demo.

My point is whilst the buyer will be aware it's an ex demo, they should rightly assume that whilst it's been in the ownership of the dealer, the run-in procedure will have been adhered to. How they show off the car to potential buyers is the dealers problem.
I wish that is what happens in the US lots. I can walk into any BMW lot, and point at a new car, and if the dealer thinks I'm serious, I'll be on a test drive with that car within 20 minutes. I've done that several times.
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      08-24-2007, 09:25 AM   #51
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Quote:
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But in practice, how to you enforce this and still allow the potential buyer to try out the car?
The original allocation for the UK market this calender year is

300 customer cars - so about 2 per dealership
160-200 dealer demo cars
200-300 (approx) press/show/management cars

The first two or three customers to receive their cars at each dealer will have had their order in a long time ago, and will be taking the car without even having had a test drive.

If you are walking into a dealer as a potential customer to test drive the M3 at any point in the next month, you probably wont be getting an M3 until next year at the earliest. Therefore there is no need to rush into any test drive, and therefore the dealers have plenty of time to run the new M3's in nicely.
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      08-24-2007, 09:43 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
OK, they will know it has been used as a demo, but why should that mean the run-in procedure hasn't been adhered to?

Why bother even having a run-in procedure if it's OK for demo cars not to stick to it?

My point is there should be procedures put in place for demo cars. Either have them pre run-in, or stick to the run-in procedure until enough miles have been put on the clock.

I'm afraid the vast majority of salesmen, and not just BMW, are not enthusiasts and don't really care about something if ultimately it won't affect them. Hence the response to my initial post from ukm3 as "you live in a perfect world don't you".

As there are unfortunately bad apple mechanics who look at having a performance car to work on and test as a chance to have a bit of fun with somebody else's car. "It's alright, they're meant to have the wheels driven off them."
Of course they should follow run in procedure. But how are you willing you force them to do so. Inside most of the german demo cars is a sticker saying: "I'm a demo car. Please treat me like I was your own car." Guess not too many people pay attention to this.
Only possibility would be that the dealer doesn't give the car away for a testdrive before the car's reached 1200 miles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
If you are walking into a dealer as a potential customer to test drive the M3 at any point in the next month, you probably wont be getting an M3 until next year at the earliest. Therefore there is no need to rush into any test drive, and therefore the dealers have plenty of time to run the new M3's in nicely.
Makes sense, but isn't likely. Everybody wants to testdrive them (also those who already ordered one).


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      08-24-2007, 10:04 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
The original allocation for the UK market this calender year is

300 customer cars - so about 2 per dealership
160-200 dealer demo cars
200-300 (approx) press/show/management cars
By "dealer demo cars", do you mean cars the dealership owns and can do with what they please? IOW, they could refuse to let anyone drive them, or they could let anyone beat the crap out of. Right? Just clarifying that.

Seems to me, from those numbers, that a good solution would be to just let folks test drive the press cars. Change the tires, brake pads, and clutch, tune them up, and let the common man have a crack at them.

Quote:
If you are walking into a dealer as a potential customer to test drive the M3 at any point in the next month, you probably wont be getting an M3 until next year at the earliest. Therefore there is no need to rush into any test drive, and therefore the dealers have plenty of time to run the new M3's in nicely.
Maybe, but no dealer is going to win the good service award for not letting people drive the cars on their lot. Most folks will just head somewhere else for a drive. On the other hand, some people will see that as a show of integrity and take their business straight to those types of dealerships (I might). But of course, not before going to another lot with no such policy, so they can really beat on the car first.
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      08-24-2007, 10:15 AM   #54
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The base price of the E92 335i by Hong Kong BMW is now at USD175,000 base with no options! This crushes my wish for a E92 M3 and I am getting my deposit back! The 997 Carrera 2 is at USD176,000 locally.

What the hell is the local BMW thinking? Have fun with your E92 M3 folks...
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      08-24-2007, 10:17 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
By "dealer demo cars", do you mean cars the dealership owns and can do with what they please? IOW, they could refuse to let anyone drive them, or they could let anyone beat the crap out of. Right? Just clarifying that.
'

The dealer owns the car and is the registered keeper. Eventually they can then decide to release the car into the approved used delaer network as an ex demo car.

And yes, you will be very lucky to just walk off the street and test drive a car like the M3 in the UK. The dealer will be very careful who they let test drive their demo cars. This is why it's a good idea to build up a dealer/customer relationship.

Cars are not sold in the same way in Europe as they are in the U.S.
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      08-24-2007, 10:20 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by E36325is View Post
The base price of the E92 335i by Hong Kong BMW is now at USD175,000 base with no options! This crushes my wish for a E92 M3 and I am getting my deposit back! The 997 Carrera 2 is at USD176,000 locally.

What the hell is the local BMW thinking? Have fun with your E92 M3 folks...
Wow. Maybe that is why we saw the 911 comparisions in the press releases. BMW is out to lunch if this is the case in the US
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      08-24-2007, 10:24 AM   #57
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Wow. Maybe that is why we saw the 911 comparisions in the press releases. BMW is out to lunch if this is the case in the US
What are you talking about? The 335 is about half the price of a 997S in the US.
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      08-24-2007, 10:24 AM   #58
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The dealer owns the car and is the registered keeper. Eventually they can then decide to release the car into the approved used delaer network as an ex demo car.
But can they never sell that car as new?

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Cars are not sold in the same way in Europe as they are in the U.S.
No doubt.

I suppose the issue of break-in is not a unique problem to the M3. Just as there are laws about how many miles a car can have and still be sold as new, perhaps there should be laws about how those miles were put on the car for it still to be sold as new. It seems plausible that the black box could reveal whether a car was broken in properly. Though I do not know how sophisticated or thorough the data is.
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      08-24-2007, 10:30 AM   #59
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What are you talking about? The 335 is about half the price of a 997S in the US.
I dont know why its so hard for people to understand.

U.S. PRICES ON CARS ARE NOT BASED ON CONVERSION RATES.
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      08-24-2007, 10:39 AM   #60
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Quote:
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OK, they will know it has been used as a demo, but why should that mean the run-in procedure hasn't been adhered to?

Why bother even having a run-in procedure if it's OK for demo cars not to stick to it?

My point is there should be procedures put in place for demo cars. Either have them pre run-in, or stick to the run-in procedure until enough miles have been put on the clock.

I'm afraid the vast majority of salesmen, and not just BMW, are not enthusiasts and don't really care about something if ultimately it won't affect them. Hence the response to my initial post from ukm3 as "you live in a perfect world don't you".

As there are unfortunately bad apple mechanics who look at having a performance car to work on and test as a chance to have a bit of fun with somebody else's car. "It's alright, they're meant to have the wheels driven off them."
+1

Couldn't agree more.
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      08-24-2007, 10:46 AM   #61
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But can they never sell that car as new?
Er.....no. That's why I said used network.
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      08-24-2007, 11:02 AM   #62
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Wow. Maybe that is why we saw the 911 comparisions in the press releases. BMW is out to lunch if this is the case in the US
Yup the 335i is USD83,600 locally so less than half of the E92 M3 base price! :mad:
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      08-24-2007, 11:04 AM   #63
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Yup the 335i is USD83,600 locally so less than half of the E92 M3 base price! :mad:
Oh you meant in Hong Kong
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      08-24-2007, 11:17 AM   #64
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Er.....no. That's why I said used network.
Right, well I only asked because that is so different from how it works over here. In the US, a dealership can sell any car they wish as knew, as long as it has never been titled and has less than a certain prescribed amount of mileage on it. It could be on the lot and test driven hard for a year and still go out the door as a new car.

With the understanding that dealership cannot, under any circumstance, sell these cars as new anyway, then I mostly agree with your point that they ought to break them in first. The only question is - who do you trust to break in all these cars in properly?
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      08-24-2007, 12:36 PM   #65
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Running in...

dont be under the impression these demo cars have the arse ragged off them from day one. they would be driven day to day by manger etc and test driven probably only to customers with orders placed. so the early mileage will not be abuse and even on a test drive the customer will not be allowed to go mad, but enough to feel the power of the car and still stay at sensible speeds. The reason they will be only demo'd to customers with placed orders is the following of this car is huge and there will be a lot of dreamers just out to see what its like with no intent of purchasing.
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      08-24-2007, 12:51 PM   #66
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more pics if you can....really would like to see more of the interior as well if possible

very much appreciated
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