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      12-31-2011, 01:29 PM   #1
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Has anyone tried Dinan Stage I w/GC Camber Plates

I have a Dinan Stage II Suspenion in my garage that I will install in the spring. I'm concerned about front tire wear from track usage. You can see the other edge worn on every E9X M3 I've seen.

While the Dinan camber plates are an option, I'm not positive that they will significantly help with wear. Plus, the GC plates are $200 more. I figure that the GC plates will pay for themselves within a year due to longer tire life.

At this point, I think I am an idiot for not going with the GC plates.

So does anyone forsee any issues with replacing the dinan strut mount with the GC Camber Plates?
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      12-31-2011, 05:22 PM   #2
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I'm of the same opinion as you, that the GC camber plates will pay for themselves in just 2-3 sets of tires. I just installed a set (I'm all stock) in early December and they are completely problem free. I have stock alignment right (-1.2 degrees) now but will make regular use of them next year when track season starts. Also, when I bought them I asked if the spring seat could be changed to accommodate a different spring diameter in the future and they said yes.
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      01-01-2012, 04:58 AM   #3
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The only concern I can think of is that the Dinan top mount is 0.3" shorter in stack height than stock for more compression travel, while the GC mount is roughly the same stack height as stock. So, you lose Dinan's claimed benefit of more travel.
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      01-01-2012, 10:58 AM   #4
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Great info. Probably a stupid question. The dinan plates raise the ride height by .25" but does that affect suspension travel? I'm thinking no but not sure.

Also, is it possible to shave down the bottom of the GC plates to acheive the same .3" increase in suspension travel?
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      01-01-2012, 08:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard@M-World View Post
The only concern I can think of is that the Dinan top mount is 0.3" shorter in stack height than stock for more compression travel, while the GC mount is roughly the same stack height as stock. So, you lose Dinan's claimed benefit of more travel.
Incorrect.

I would think that as a track setup/suspension shop you would know how shorten shock mounts effect the suspension.

The Dinan shortened shock mounts does nothing more than shorten the overall shock assembly. Which does.....


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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Great info. Probably a stupid question. The dinan plates raise the ride height by .25" but does that affect suspension travel? I'm thinking no but not sure.

Also, is it possible to shave down the bottom of the GC plates to acheive the same .3" increase in suspension travel?
You're on the right path.

Dinan plates do not increase suspension travel. They reduce the vehicle ride height with out compromising suspension travel. - There is a difference.

So....With the GC camber plates your car will be roughly .3" higher than the current ride height suspension travel remains the same.
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      01-02-2012, 01:24 PM   #6
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Great info. Probably a stupid question. The dinan plates raise the ride height by .25" but does that affect suspension travel? I'm thinking no but not sure.
Nope, because the height is added at the top of the top mount.

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Incorrect.

I would think that as a track setup/suspension shop you would know how shorten shock mounts effect the suspension.

The Dinan shortened shock mounts does nothing more than shorten the overall shock assembly. Which does.....
The shorter mount moves the bump stop higher, which means more compression travel.
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      01-02-2012, 01:38 PM   #7
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Nope, because the height is added at the top of the top mount.
Thanks. Would it be possible to shave down the bottom of the GC plates to acheive the same .3" increase in suspension travel?
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      01-02-2012, 02:33 PM   #8
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Thanks. Would it be possible to shave down the bottom of the GC plates to acheive the same .3" increase in suspension travel?
You will have to talk to GC on this.

One more thought: your car's a DD, correct? For a hybrid set up I typically recommend around -2.2 degrees of front camber, beyond which you may get a lot of inner edge wear on the highway.

So, unless you want to significantly add negative camber every time you go to the track (which I generally don't recommend unless you have a precise way of measuring camber), there may not be a need to have the adjustment range of the GC plates, since according to Dinan it already adds -0.7 degrees of negative camber to stock.
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      01-02-2012, 05:03 PM   #9
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I have the Dinan plate, and if I could do it again, I would have gotten the GC kit

I could only max -2.6 camber one side, -2.4 on the other (couldn't get it even, and .2 difference wasn't enough for me to keep trying, damn alignment shifts if I eat too much food before driving anyways)

with GC, my friend was able to get -3.5

Dinan plate is $250, how much is the GC kit?
it's like $400 right?
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      01-02-2012, 05:23 PM   #10
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GC kit is $499.

Richard why wouldn't you want to adjust the camber each time you go to the track? That's what many of the guys I know do and it's no biggie, I have the same plans with my plates. At the track if you don't have the camber at exactly -3 degrees or whatever, what does it matter? The race shop guys tell me that they don't even run the same camber on both side of the car depending on the track. And when you're done and put the car back to the street setting do you really care if you can only get the camber to plus or minus 0.2 degrees? Yes, there will be changes in toe as well but I really wonder if this will have anything more than a minor effect on handling or steering feel or straight line tracking for that matter.
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      01-02-2012, 08:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard@M-World View Post
You will have to talk to GC on this.

One more thought: your car's a DD, correct? For a hybrid set up I typically recommend around -2.2 degrees of front camber, beyond which you may get a lot of inner edge wear on the highway.

So, unless you want to significantly add negative camber every time you go to the track (which I generally don't recommend unless you have a precise way of measuring camber), there may not be a need to have the adjustment range of the GC plates, since according to Dinan it already adds -0.7 degrees of negative camber to stock.
Is there anything obvious that would prevent me from shaving down the bottom? But I'll give them a call.

My M3 will be taking over dual duty as my E46 gets older and is eventually retired to street duty only. I have vorshlag plates on my 330 which go from about -3.7 for the track to about -1.7 for the street from max to min.

Not sure if I'll get the same optimal setup with the GC plates going from min to max but I don't see why I can't mark the plates for street and track settings.

I think I've seen as much as -2.5 with the dinan plates...not sure what the toe settings were. Its probably a little too much for the street and not enough for the track...so where's the benefit? I just see the dinan plates causing more wear on the street while not significantly reducing wear on the shoulders of the tires. At that point, I'd just rather stay at the OEM settings and occasionally murder the outsides of my tires at the track.

I'm really leaning towards the GC plates so I can have 2 optimal settings for track or street use. This is not just for camber but also for an increase in toe out when going from min to max camber...and vice versa. I'm sure these plates will pay for themselves after about 3-4 weekends in increased tire life.
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      01-02-2012, 08:52 PM   #12
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Just doing a 7th grade word problem...

The GC kit is $500. Let's say you go through a set of tires in 2 weekends + whatver street miles, guess about 5k.

Add in the GC plates, you get about 3 weekends and 7.5k miles.

If you do a track weekend every 2.5k miles and a set of tires cost $800 from tire rack.

Tire costs spread over a track weekend/mileage...
W/o plates = $400 every 2.5K + 1 Weekend
w/ plates = $266 every 2.5k + 1 weekend

These will pay for themselves in about 10K + 4 track weekends...more or less. That's less than a year for me.

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I have the Dinan plate, and if I could do it again, I would have gotten the GC kit

I could only max -2.6 camber one side, -2.4 on the other (couldn't get it even, and .2 difference wasn't enough for me to keep trying, damn alignment shifts if I eat too much food before driving anyways)

with GC, my friend was able to get -3.5

Dinan plate is $250, how much is the GC kit?
it's like $400 right?
I've only seen them for $500. Where are they $400?

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GC kit is $499.

Richard why wouldn't you want to adjust the camber each time you go to the track? That's what many of the guys I know do and it's no biggie, I have the same plans with my plates. At the track if you don't have the camber at exactly -3 degrees or whatever, what does it matter? The race shop guys tell me that they don't even run the same camber on both side of the car depending on the track. And when you're done and put the car back to the street setting do you really care if you can only get the camber to plus or minus 0.2 degrees? Yes, there will be changes in toe as well but I really wonder if this will have anything more than a minor effect on handling or steering feel or straight line tracking for that matter.
Usually, I have the shop align the car at min camber with a little bit of toe in on the front. Then slide the plates to max camber and check the toe. Usually go from about 1/8" toe in at min camber to 1.8" toe out at max camber.

I haven't really gotten far enough in my driving skills or put enough effort into my data logging to really get into different camber of each side.
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      01-03-2012, 04:11 AM   #13
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I've only seen them for $500. Where are they $400?

Honestly it was just a guess

I haven't looked into it in a couple months

I just remembered it was something around 4-500 lol
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      01-03-2012, 10:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
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GC kit is $499.

Richard why wouldn't you want to adjust the camber each time you go to the track? That's what many of the guys I know do and it's no biggie, I have the same plans with my plates. At the track if you don't have the camber at exactly -3 degrees or whatever, what does it matter? The race shop guys tell me that they don't even run the same camber on both side of the car depending on the track. And when you're done and put the car back to the street setting do you really care if you can only get the camber to plus or minus 0.2 degrees? Yes, there will be changes in toe as well but I really wonder if this will have anything more than a minor effect on handling or steering feel or straight line tracking for that matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Is there anything obvious that would prevent me from shaving down the bottom? But I'll give them a call.

My M3 will be taking over dual duty as my E46 gets older and is eventually retired to street duty only. I have vorshlag plates on my 330 which go from about -3.7 for the track to about -1.7 for the street from max to min.

Not sure if I'll get the same optimal setup with the GC plates going from min to max but I don't see why I can't mark the plates for street and track settings.

I think I've seen as much as -2.5 with the dinan plates...not sure what the toe settings were. Its probably a little too much for the street and not enough for the track...so where's the benefit? I just see the dinan plates causing more wear on the street while not significantly reducing wear on the shoulders of the tires. At that point, I'd just rather stay at the OEM settings and occasionally murder the outsides of my tires at the track.

I'm really leaning towards the GC plates so I can have 2 optimal settings for track or street use. This is not just for camber but also for an increase in toe out when going from min to max camber...and vice versa. I'm sure these plates will pay for themselves after about 3-4 weekends in increased tire life.
As long as you can make the procedure repeatable, it is perfectly fine to adjust for the track. But keep in mind that maxing out the camber may not always be the best for performance. During alignment you could mark your track setting for future use. Mark the camber plate with respect to a position on the strut tower (not just where the tick mark points on the camber plate).
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      01-03-2012, 05:08 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Richard@M-World View Post



The shorter mount moves the bump stop higher, which means more compression travel.
Incorrect once again.... think it over, again.

How do you supply technical support to your clients if you don't understand the basics? Do you just regurgitate what you've read on the forum?
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      01-03-2012, 09:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Incorrect once again.... think it over, again.

How do you supply technical support to your clients if you don't understand the basics? Do you just regurgitate what you've read on the forum?
You're wrong. Dinan shaves the bottom of the strut mount which moves the bump stop higher which allows for increased suspension travel vrs just using shorter springs and an unmodified strut mount.
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      01-03-2012, 10:29 PM   #17
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You're wrong. Dinan shaves the bottom of the strut mount which moves the bump stop higher which allows for increased suspension travel vrs just using shorter springs and an unmodified strut mount.
Negative, you are also wrong and have not logically thought about how the suspension assembly works.

Think about what happens when you shave the strut mount.

Now..... how does the bump stop move higher when the retaining washer and the mounting of the top hat is the same on the shock shaft? - OMG... it doesn't!

So what does shaving the top hat do??!! - Well........As I said previously, it does not increase the suspension travel. The effect it would have is a lower ride height without losing travel.

Whoever came out with the idea and marketed to you guys that it "increase suspension travel" is a genius, he should go sell golden bridges to you guys.
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      01-03-2012, 10:57 PM   #18
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Negative, you are also wrong and have not logically thought about how the suspension assembly works.

Think about what happens when you shave the strut mount.

Now..... how does the bump stop move higher when the retaining washer and the mounting of the top hat is the same on the shock shaft? - OMG... it doesn't!

So what does shaving the top hat do??!! - Well........As I said previously, it does not increase the suspension travel. The effect it would have is a lower ride height without losing travel.

Whoever came out with the idea and marketed to you guys that it "increase suspension travel" is a genius, he should go sell golden bridges to you guys.

Wow, you've made yourself out to be an idiot. I'm allowed to say that because I made the same mistake you are making. Stop while you're behind.

The front strut has the stack height on top of the spring and then the spring. Nothing else matters until the lower spring perch. Richard pointed out that not only is the stack height on the GC plate higher, but it extends both above and below the spring. The portion above the spring will directly affect ride height, but the portion inside the spring won't. It will move the strut piston up, increasing the effective amount of travel.

Remember to keep in mind what surface you are shaving. You are NOT shaving the portion above the spring or where the spring mounts, you are shaving the part where the strut piston mounts. the strut now protrudes more into the engine bay.

Hopefully you'll understand this and we can get back to a civil discussion about suspension bits.
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      01-03-2012, 11:41 PM   #19
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Wow, you've made yourself out to be an idiot. I'm allowed to say that because I made the same mistake you are making. Stop while you're behind.

The front strut has the stack height on top of the spring and then the spring. Nothing else matters until the lower spring perch. Richard pointed out that not only is the stack height on the GC plate higher, but it extends both above and below the spring. The portion above the spring will directly affect ride height, but the portion inside the spring won't. It will move the strut piston up, increasing the effective amount of travel.

Remember to keep in mind what surface you are shaving. You are NOT shaving the portion above the spring or where the spring mounts, you are shaving the part where the strut piston mounts. the strut now protrudes more into the engine bay.

Hopefully you'll understand this and we can get back to a civil discussion about suspension bits.
Nice to see you around Kit..we missed you...at least I did anyway Hows the 997.2S? Licking my chops with the 991 soon to be out.

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      01-04-2012, 03:17 AM   #20
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Wow, you've made yourself out to be an idiot. I'm allowed to say that because I made the same mistake you are making. Stop while you're behind.

A. - The front strut has the stack height on top of the spring and then the spring. Nothing else matters until the lower spring perch. Richard pointed out that not only is the stack height on the GC plate higher, but it extends both above and below the spring. The portion above the spring will directly affect ride height, but the portion inside the spring won't. It will move the strut piston up, increasing the effective amount of travel.

B. - Remember to keep in mind what surface you are shaving. You are NOT shaving the portion above the spring or where the spring mounts, you are shaving the part where the strut piston mounts. the strut now protrudes more into the engine bay.

Hopefully you'll understand this and we can get back to a civil discussion about suspension bits.
A. - I'm fully aware of gc vs stock. The argument is the shaved hats - travel is not "increased".

B. - Correct. You're not doing any modifications to the actual shock shaft so the base/mounting of the top hat is still at the same location. All you're doing is shortening the overall length of the shock, thus you're not "increasing" any travel.
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      01-05-2012, 10:45 PM   #21
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Anyway.... I have the stg.3 dinan setup and am finding it is not enough camber for me. I am maxed out, think around -2.1 or so, will check before next track season. Not really understanding the tire saving thing unless you're running r comp or something. Ran 22 days this year on ad08's and replaced the front tires after my 4th event because I hit a pothole (damn city) and the rears after about the 15th when the drivers side had a slow leak and walked in to the garage and it was flat. Don't think I was really "working" the tires till the last 5 or 6 days but still, these tires are indestructible. Tire pressure adjustment has worked wonders for me and have adjusted my driving style to suit and am very pleased. Cheaper than the plates but then again see a full coilover in the future so I'll shut up now.
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      01-06-2012, 12:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Anyway.... I have the stg.3 dinan setup and am finding it is not enough camber for me. I am maxed out, think around -2.1 or so, will check before next track season. Not really understanding the tire saving thing unless you're running r comp or something. Ran 22 days this year on ad08's and replaced the front tires after my 4th event because I hit a pothole (damn city) and the rears after about the 15th when the drivers side had a slow leak and walked in to the garage and it was flat. Don't think I was really "working" the tires till the last 5 or 6 days but still, these tires are indestructible. Tire pressure adjustment has worked wonders for me and have adjusted my driving style to suit and am very pleased. Cheaper than the plates but then again see a full coilover in the future so I'll shut up now.
How long are your events?

On my 330, my vorshlag plates have easily paid for themselves by increasing tire life by about 33% (rough estimate) because I can optimize camber/toe for street and track.

IMO, dinan is somewhere in the middle. A little less wear on the track, a little more wear on the street. IMO, kind of pointless since the dinan plates don't significantly increase camber for track use...which would make these fixed plates usable in at least 1 application.

I got it, the dinan plates do increase front end grip on the street and probably adds a noticable performance increase. But who's really saying that their M3 doesn't have enough front end grip for spirited driving...I must have more.
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