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      08-25-2007, 08:42 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
As has already been implied it works best when used as a GT car, with the ability to turn up the excitement as required.
For me, Grand Tourer has such a terrible ring to it when talking about the vaunted M3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
However I decided earlier on last week that I will go for the CSL version, so will have to wait until later next year myself.
Hopefully, history won't repeat itself and the CSL will be offered in the states.

Last edited by ruff; 08-25-2007 at 09:03 AM.
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      08-25-2007, 08:55 AM   #46
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Basically which cars best espouse the values and DNA of the M-brand, and by that I don't mean M-brand in terms of marketing.
Looks like the latest and greatest may not of came out on top, which would translate for me as a huge disappointment, no way around it. BMW marketing is a joke, at least for enthusiasts, the rest sure seem to buy into it though.
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      08-25-2007, 09:06 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
For me, Grand Tourer has such a terrible ring to it when talking about the vaunted M3
It's a GT in much the same way as the 997 is in standard form. It's not a 997 GT3 competitor, but is perfectly capable of being driven either hard or sedately with 'almost' equal pleasure. That makes it spot on for the target market BMW were aiming for but I will leave you to judge whether that makes it the car you were hoping for.

I still reckon that 95% of people will be absolutely delighted when they first drive it.
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      08-25-2007, 09:13 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 888 View Post
1st E30 M3
2nd E46 CSL
3rd Z4 M coupe
4th E92 M3

M1 wild card??

Is any one else brave enough to attempt a guess at top 4? Remember the criteria are M DNA not the best overall package. If best package was the criteria I suspect the new M will come up tops.
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      08-25-2007, 09:35 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 888 View Post
Is any one else brave enough to attempt a guess at top 4? Remember the criteria are M DNA not the best overall package. If best package was the criteria I suspect the new M will come up tops.
Sure.

1. E46 CSL
2. E86 M Coupe
3. E63 M6
4. E92 M3
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      08-25-2007, 09:48 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
Hopefully, history won't repeat itself and the CSL will be offered in the states.
Scott26, the BMW insider, recently confirmed that the CSL is NOT coming to the US on this forum. Sorry.
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      08-25-2007, 09:56 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
that's an interesting change of opinons, steved. i suspect the article will reflect a similar sentiment.


- esquire

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I am really surprised to hear that. Can you provide any more detail on what changed your mind?
I remember you saying you thought long and hard after you initially drove the new M3 and you choose it over the E46 CSL.
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      08-25-2007, 09:57 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by 888 View Post
Is any one else brave enough to attempt a guess at top 4? Remember the criteria are M DNA not the best overall package. If best package was the criteria I suspect the new M will come up tops.
My guess is:

1st - E46 M3 CSL
2nd - Z3 M Coupe
3rd - E30 M3
4th - E92 M3
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      08-25-2007, 10:46 AM   #53
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1st - E46 M3 CSL
2nd - E30 M3 EVO 2 or something
3rd - One of those I6 old M5s
4th - Z4 M coupe

Steve, when does the magazine come out in September in Europe?
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      08-25-2007, 11:44 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Scott26, the BMW insider, recently confirmed that the CSL is NOT coming to the US on this forum. Sorry.
He has been wrong before so dont count it out just yet.
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      08-25-2007, 11:48 AM   #55
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I wonder if BMW has done any changes from those presscars to the production cars?

- Brakes the same?
- Same steering feedback? (I know there been complaints on that on those red presscars)
- Smoother gearbox?
- and so on....

or is the car tuned exactly as those red press cars.

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      08-25-2007, 11:57 AM   #56
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as far as i can see so far, the e90 m3 will be comparable to the rs4 and maybe even close pricewise in the us. both are awesome gt cars. so i guess if it's a more trackday car your looking for, you will have to look elsewhere, e.g gt3, m3 csl (if it comes to the us) from all the reviews it seems that the e46 m3 is rawer, which is guess is to be expected since each iteration has been more civilized, mostly to cater to the us market.
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      08-25-2007, 12:47 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
I wonder if BMW has done any changes from those presscars to the production cars?

- Brakes the same?
- Same steering feedback? (I know there been complaints on that on those red presscars)
- Smoother gearbox?
- and so on....

or is the car tuned exactly as those red press cars.

Ya, Steves report indicates that maybe they have done some fine tuning on the production cars as compared to the press cars. He said the 6MT seemed better. I was also wondering if there are any changes with steering and feel?
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      08-25-2007, 01:23 PM   #58
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The rumour has it that the exhaust system BMW used on the cars in Spain wasn't production version...Maybe that's the reason for the sound being somewhat muted on the UK cars...

Best regards, south
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      08-25-2007, 01:41 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 888 View Post
Is any one else brave enough to attempt a guess at top 4? Remember the criteria are M DNA not the best overall package. If best package was the criteria I suspect the new M will come up tops.
It's pretty hard to argue that the M1 does not characterise the DNA of the M-car, (it is the F1 strain, afterall).

The final four in rank order would thus be:

1. M1
2. E30 M3 (or a derivative thereof)
3. E46 M3 CSL
4. E92 M3 (apologies for my cyncism, but car is still not yet launched, and it therefore does not make sense to eliminate it half-way through the article!)

SteveD - I know I'm pushing my luck here, but is there anything reassuring you can say about the steering on the E92 M3 now that you have driven it in the U.K?
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      08-25-2007, 02:41 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post

SteveD - I know I'm pushing my luck here, but is there anything reassuring you can say about the steering on the E92 M3 now that you have driven it in the U.K?
I can tell you what I don't like about the steering. Just the same as with the M5 and M6, they go very light when moving slowly (such as moving around in a car park). There is a slight electronic feel about it, although its nicely weighted once pressing on.

When I initially jumped into it after driving my M3 CSL across the Wales I noticed the difference, but after a few days I had forgotten about it and just got on with driving. It's not a 'great' steering, Nobody will ever praise it as being one of the best, and it does take a little time to adapt to.

I just realised, that probably wasn't very 'reassuring'...
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      08-25-2007, 02:45 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
I just realised, that probably wasn't very 'reassuring'...
Yep, I just got off the phone with my dealer. They'll mail me my deposit back.
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      08-25-2007, 02:48 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
I wonder if BMW has done any changes from those presscars to the production cars?

- Brakes the same?
- Same steering feedback? (I know there been complaints on that on those red presscars)
- Smoother gearbox?
- and so on....

or is the car tuned exactly as those red press cars.


The car I drove yesterday was a production car and will be sold eventually to customers, whereas the car I drove in Spain was pre-production and will be crushed and recycled.

Brakes felt the same, but without the use of race pads.

I wasn't so keen this time around about EDC, the chassis felt a little more artificial than the launch car, and I noticed the dampers 'adapting' to the changing road conditions. It made me wish for a conventional springs/dampers configuration, but since nobody has driven a non-EDC car yet it is difficult to say if this would be the right choice.

Gearbox was definitely slicker and much closer to the RS4s, better than the Z4M this time around.

And as I already mentioned the fuel economy was much better. It felt just as quick, but the exhaust seemed slightly quieter, although it was still the loudest car of the group behind the CSL.

I would say the changes are all good, and my only reservations concern the steering and adaptive dampers.
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      08-25-2007, 02:57 PM   #63
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Another point worth sharing. I was dwelling on the question of whether the M3 was better than the 335i in the kind of normal daily drive, rather than the kind of roads that play to its increased performance.

I drove along in 5th gear at 2000 rpm and then put my foot down to see what happened. The exhaust note hardened, and it took around the count of 1-2-3 before we were at 3000 rpm. So I see two bonuses there, firstly it sounds a heck of a lot meaner than a 335i, and secondly it pulled hard from low down in 5th. So it has plenty of big-engined grunt low down in the revs, and yet it pulled from 6000 rpm to 8500 rpm faster than any other car in the test (M5 and M6 included). In fact over that last surge of rpm, I would say it felt like one of the fastest cars BMW have ever produced.

So compared to the 335i it loses nothing in terms of low-down grunt, but would destroy it over the last few thousand rpm. I cannot imagine anyone feeling short changed if they moved from 335i to M3.
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      08-25-2007, 02:57 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
It made me wish for a conventional springs/dampers configuration, but since nobody has driven a non-EDC car yet it is difficult to say if this would be the right choice.
Are you sure about this? This topic has been discussed here a little, and the outcome was that in "sport" mode, the system does an initial adjustment to the dampers and then leaves them alone while driving, meaning, in sport mode, it acts as a passive system. On the other hand, in the other modes, it is supposed to indeed act as an active system. Do you have insights to this?
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      08-25-2007, 03:07 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Are you sure about this? This topic has been discussed here a little, and the outcome was that in "sport" mode, the system does an initial adjustment to the dampers and then leaves them alone while driving, meaning, in sport mode, it acts as a passive system. On the other hand, in the other modes, it is supposed to indeed act as an active system. Do you have insights to this?
I am wondering if we just confused it. Bear in mind there were 6 or 7 journalists, all jumping in adjusting its settings and then driving off. The final journey I made in it was fine, the dampers were unobtrusive, steering felt fine and it drove much like a conventional E46 M3. It's really hard to be conclusive without keeping it to myself for a few days and letting it settle on one driving style.

If it's anything like the adaptive dampers on my ML63, it does the adaptive bit in 'normal', whereas in 'sport' it stays fixed, so if you haven't allowed it to settle in 'normal' before switching to 'sport' you can find it rather unsettled.

So I cannot be sure, but I'm just sharing my observations to point out the areas to check for yourself if you can.
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      08-25-2007, 03:11 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
I am wondering if we just confused it. Bear in mind there were 6 or 7 journalists, all jumping in adjusting its settings and then driving off. The final journey I made in it was fine, the dampers were unobtrusive, steering felt fine and it drove much like a conventional E46 M3. It's really hard to be conclusive without keeping it to myself for a few days and letting it settle on one driving style.

If it's anything like the adaptive dampers on my ML63, it does the adaptive bit in 'normal', whereas in 'sport' it stays fixed, so if you haven't allowed it to settle in 'normal' before switching to 'sport' you can find it rather unsettled.

So I cannot be sure, but I'm just sharing my observations to point out the areas to check for yourself if you can.
Will do. Thanks.
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