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      07-18-2014, 06:44 AM   #1
flip
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Tail light out but bulb is fine...

So I've been reading and researching this for a few weeks now and haven't gotten anywhere so let be begin by describing the problem.

Problem: It started with the left tail light (the left most of the two running lights on the left side) going out. Then I noticed that what was on the left didn't quite match the right and it looks like one bulb that isn't supposed to be illuminated on the left is now illuminated instead of the correct bulb.

What I've Done: I pulled the bulb, found it to have melted its bottom contact out and replaced it. Bulb still out car still alerts me about left tail light malfunction. I tested voltage on the bulb carrier and got nothing. Then I tested for voltage at the harness that plugs into the carrier and also got nothing. Then I ordered the bulb carrier or whatever you call it and replaced that. It came with all brand new bulbs but still didn't make any difference.

Now I'm wondering where to go from here. Do I keep replacing the bulb carriers until I fix the issue? Could there be a larger issue?

I've attached a pic below to help visualize the issue...

I'd be glad to give any more information if I've left something out. I have a BMW programming cable and software if for some reason it would help.
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Last edited by flip; 07-18-2014 at 07:00 AM.
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      07-19-2014, 01:38 AM   #2
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Did you actually take a look at the contact points on the tail light itself? Most of them time when the bulb starts to melt it will cause the plastic on the tail light to deform. Once that happens the contact points don't really touch and it won't work.
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      07-19-2014, 06:23 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyM3 View Post
Did you actually take a look at the contact points on the tail light itself? Most of them time when the bulb starts to melt it will cause the plastic on the tail light to deform. Once that happens the contact points don't really touch and it won't work.
By points on the tail light itself, do you mean on the bulb socket? Or on the clear tail light housing that the light shines through?

Bulb socket: (this is what I replaced)


I don't see anywhere on the tail light itself that the bulb socket would contact electrically. I'd heard some of them ground to it or something but am not seeing that.

Why would a different light be illuminated than normal? Does anyone know where the controller is for these lights?

Is there a way/need to reset something in the computer to get it to realize that the bulb has been replaced?

Could a "tail lamp malfunction left" be a result of an issue with the right tail light socket?
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      07-19-2014, 07:34 AM   #4
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So I've seen a few threads that mention it could be a broken wire. Those are referring to the tail lights that are in one of the two trunk bulb sockets tho. Mine is on the outside.

I've done some testing and here's my conclusions... Maybe this will help to pinpoint the actual issue.

When unlocking the car, this is what I get...


When the lights are ON, this is what I get...


This is the wire that should light up the middle bulb on the left and it is not getting any voltage.
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      07-20-2014, 12:45 PM   #5
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Are any of the wires giving you a 12v reading?

Last edited by KrazyM3; 07-20-2014 at 01:06 PM.
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      07-20-2014, 08:13 PM   #6
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On the left where it has lit up the wrong light, (the dim brake light) i'm getting 2.2v. On the right where the correct light is lit up, I get around 10v.

From the wire that should be lighting up the correct light on the left, (the light in the middle) I get no voltage.

Wiring diagrams would help emensely. If I knew where the wires from the plug that go to that light went, I could get a lot further. I'm trying to get a copy of TIS installed to try to help...
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      07-20-2014, 09:22 PM   #7
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Parking lamp:
http://alldatapro.com/alldata/PRO~V3...8538/179443441

http://alldatapro.com/alldata/PRO~V3...8538/179913583

http://alldatapro.com/alldata/PRO~V3...8538/179443443

I could not find a tail light diagram..

Brake Lamp:

http://alldatapro.com/alldata/PRO~V3...8532/180006522

http://alldatapro.com/alldata/PRO~V3...8532/179443485
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      07-21-2014, 08:43 AM   #8
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Thank you so much! This confirms what I'd stumbled upon over the last 24 hours or so. My problem has to be either the bulb, bulb carrier or the FootWell module.

My guess is that I left the bulb dead and unreplaced for over 300 starts and the FootWell module turned off power to this bulb. I'm reading mixed information regarding what can be done from here however.

Some say that the module needs to be replaced, which sounds crazy to me. Others say that the module can be reset, which sounds more reasonable. I have INPA and NCSEXPERT and can program my car so I'm working on finding out how to reset a module via software that I have.

I'm not sure if there is a module "reset" or if that just means that all of the values are set back to the stock value. Anyone have any idea if there is a value that gets set to nicht_aktiv to disable power to a certain bulb?
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      07-21-2014, 10:10 PM   #9
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I'n not to sure, never ran across this problem before. Any codes?
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      07-23-2014, 07:11 AM   #10
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Over my extended weekend (I took a few days off of work), I learned a lot more about how the car and footwell module works. Some of this information I'd still like to get confirmation on but most of it seems pretty widely agreed upon.

The first thing that I found out was that if you have a bulb go out and leave it out for X number of starts (I've read 300), the car will turn off voltage to that bulb.

You can use INPA and Tools32 to reset the counter for each bulb or endpoint in the footwell module.

-The FRM module (using bmw coding software)
File name: FRM_70 (for FRM2) or FRM_68

-Jobs
status_lampen_kurzschluss_counter - This queries each endpoint for the current value of the counter
(use one of the following jobs to reset the counter. they both use the lamp_nr value to specify the endpoint which should be a value 0-64? (0-255))
steuern_lampen_kurzschlussabschaltung - Reset counter
_reset_kurzschluss_sperre - Reset counter

I was able to query the counters and saw that a number of the counters (short circuit counters) were in the 100's.

I was not able to actually get them to reset. I entered 0 then 1, then 2 and at first had errors saying invalid data, then checked the data box and it seemed to go through but I never saw any counters change. Maybe I should have kept going through 64...

I spoke with a friend at BMW (not a tech) who spoke with some techs who said that generally the M3's don't have faulty footwell modules and that it was probably a bad housing/socket. I've replaced the bulb housing so I really don't think this is it unless a different housing could be causing the problem to show up in this housing.

This thread had a bunch of good information... I might keep trying the reset job through 64 unless someone knows more or has a better idea.

These two threads have been quite informative...
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...91-FRM-to-FRM2
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=625111

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyM3 View Post
I'n not to sure, never ran across this problem before. Any codes?
Yep. I cleared them all then these are the ones that came back.

A8B9
9CBB

Anyone know where to find out exactly what each of them mean? I've done a lot of searching and not really turned up anything solid about these codes. Finding FRM and tail light related things but nothing specific.

Last edited by flip; 07-23-2014 at 07:17 AM.
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      07-24-2014, 07:50 AM   #11
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So I have a few specific questions regarding coding and fixing the counters. I might have better results over on ************** or something but I figure I'll include it here as well to help anyone else that may run up on this problem...

Does anyone know how to find out what the ID of the light that I want to reset the counter on is? The job to reset light counters takes an integer and I've run through a good number of 0-64 but have yet to see any results. The results that I'm getting from Toolset32 doesn't seem to reflect that the job is working but its not throwing an error either.

I need to grab more of the outputs of the jobs that i'm running and such but here is the result from the STATUS_LAMPEN_KURZSCHLUSS job. That means Lamp Short Circuit Status.


Satz : 0
OBJECT = frm_87
SAETZE = 1
JOBNAME = status_lampen_kurzschluss
VARIANTE = FRM_87
JOBSTATUS =
UBATTCURRENT = -1
UBATTHISTORY = -1
IGNITIONCURRENT = -1
IGNITIONHISTORY = -1
Satz : 1
JOB_STATUS = OKAY
STAT_FL_LINKS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_FL_RECHTS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_AL_LINKS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_AL_RECHTS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_BEGRL_LINKS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_BEGRL_RECHTS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_NSW_LINKS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_NSW_RECHTS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_FRA_LINKS_VORN_1_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_FRA_RECHTS_VORN_1_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_FRA_LINKS_HINTEN_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_FRA_RECHTS_HINTEN_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_BREMSLICHT_LINKS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_BREMSLICHT_RECHTS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_BREMSLICHT_MITTE_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_SL_BL_LINKS_1_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_SL_BL_RECHTS_1_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_SL_BL_LINKS_2_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_SL_BL_RECHTS_2_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_KZL_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_IB_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_NSL_LINKS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_NSL_RECHTS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_RFL_LINKS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_RFL_RECHTS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_BFD_LINKS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_BFD_RECHTS_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_KLEMME_58G_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_FLC_LED_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_VFB_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_BEL_WBL_SHORT_CIRCUIT = 0 00 00 ..
_TEL_ANTWORT = 12 Bytes
0000 : 88 F1 72 70 14 01 16 7D 00 0A 80 8D ?rp...} ..?


I'm wondering if the ones that are reading one now are permanently turned off, or if they are simply currently considered short circuited.

When I run the job to pull the counters, I see 4 items with counters over 0. I'd love to be able to determine the ID of each of these and simply send the command to reset the counters but that doesn't seem to be working.
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      07-24-2014, 08:05 AM   #12
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Maybe this is the key? Found it in Tabellen-Info window.

WERT UWTEXT
0x00 Fernlicht links, E92/E93: Abbiegelicht links
0x01 Fernlicht rechts, E92/E93: Abbiegelicht rechts
0x02 Abblendlicht links
0x03 Abblendlicht rechts
0x04 Begrenzungslicht links
0x05 Begrenzungslicht rechts
0x06 Nebelscheinwerfer links
0x07 Nebelscheinwerfer rechts
0x08 Fahrtrichtungsanzeiger links vorne 1
0x09 Fahrtrichtungsanzeiger rechts vorne 1
0x0A Fahrtrichtungsanzeiger links hinten
0x0B Fahrtrichtungsanzeiger rechts hinten
0x0C unbekannte Lampe 1
0x0D Beleuchtung WBL-Taster
0x0E Bremslicht links
0x0F Bremslicht rechts
0x10 Bremslicht mitte
0x11 Schlusslicht links 1, E92/E93: Tagfahrlicht links
0x12 Schlusslicht rechts 1, E92/E93: Tagfahrlicht rechts
0x13 Schlusslicht links 2
0x14 Schlusslicht rechts 2
0x15 Kennzeichenlicht
0x16 Innenbeleuchtung
0x17 Nebelschlusslicht links
0x18 Nebelschlusslicht rechts
0x19 Rueckfahrlicht links
0x1A Rueckfahrlicht rechts
0x1B Break-Force-Display links
0x1C Break-Force-Display rechts
0x1D Klemme 58g
0x1E LED Fahrtlichtkontrolle
0x1F LED Vorfeldbeleuchtung
0x20 unbekannte Lampe 2
0x21 unbekannte Lampe 3
0x22 unbekannte Lampe 4
0xFFFF unbekannte Lampe
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      07-25-2014, 02:05 AM   #13
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Would love to help you but I haven't mess to much with coding myself to be of any help.
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      07-25-2014, 05:44 AM   #14
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Found some good download links to daten files here...

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/sho...php?p=14489096
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      07-25-2014, 05:45 AM   #15
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No worries at all. I appreciate the help that you've given!

I've posted over on the BMW coding site in hopes that someone over there knows more. I'll keep this thread up to date on my progress.
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      07-25-2014, 06:17 AM   #16
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Also I found some good info on the formatting of the data here...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=954046

The guy had the same issue after he found out how to format the data but never posted a resolution so I posted up asking if he ever found one...
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      07-26-2014, 01:25 AM   #17
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Not sure if this would help but have you heard of BMWhat app? maybe you can use that to re-enable FRM for the rear tail light and brake light. I know you can code it to do certain things and since its in English its a little easier to read.
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      07-26-2014, 01:47 AM   #18
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R2d2c3p0 bomb shit bro yeah.
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      07-28-2014, 07:55 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyM3 View Post
Not sure if this would help but have you heard of BMWhat app? maybe you can use that to re-enable FRM for the rear tail light and brake light. I know you can code it to do certain things and since its in English its a little easier to read.
I'd not heard of it. Looks pretty interesting but not quite sure if it's advanced enough to do what I need.

Someone on the bmw coding forums suggested ista-d but I don't know anything about that one either and don't have it set up so it would be a time investment ... Might be worth it if I had a better idea if it would work or not but just not sure...

Quote:
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R2d2c3p0 bomb shit bro yeah.
Uh, yeah. Exactly.

Last edited by flip; 07-28-2014 at 08:09 AM.
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      07-29-2014, 03:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyM3 View Post
Not sure if this would help but have you heard of BMWhat app? maybe you can use that to re-enable FRM for the rear tail light and brake light. I know you can code it to do certain things and since its in English its a little easier to read.
+1, its $50, well worth the cost.
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      07-29-2014, 03:41 PM   #21
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My rear bulbs act up from time to time, mostly in wet and cold environments. Then it goes away. I've seen others here with the same issue. Maintain it until something has to be replaced and replace it.
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      07-29-2014, 03:48 PM   #22
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Early 08s had a TSB specifically to the taillight carriers being defective, particularly on the left side. Are the pieces you are ordering OEM or 3rd party? Are the bulbs being used any higher wattage or coated (retains heat)?

Would recommend into correcting the issue rather than going around it and coding it out.
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