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      01-27-2013, 10:59 AM   #45
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
Not disputing c&d, I'm disputing r&t
As far as I know, Road & Track hasn't been adjusting their recorded acceleration times for weather conditions, I assume because they've been testing in conditions that don't tend to vary much over the seasons - in coastal southern California.

Seems to me they've moved (or are moving), so we'll see what they do in the future.

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      01-27-2013, 11:19 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
Not disputing c&d, I'm disputing r&t
Of course.

My reason for posting C&D's European test data was to show that R&T numbers that may be seen as "suspect"/questionable are not a one off as far as the M3 numbers are concerned; even relative the C63 AMG. However, it is always possible that C&D's data could be suspected the same as R&T's European test data, but if C&D gets a pass, with very close numbers from a second source, the case against R&T's numbers is pretty thin.
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      01-27-2013, 11:21 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eau Rouge View Post
"Think" vs "know": Assuming anything about the testing equipment opens a can of worms, but regardless, in '07, three cars were tested at the same place, same day, etc..,

And once agan, I'm surprised by the relative weights of the cars. The M3 is lighter than a lot of us make it out to be. The C63 is a real porker, but has tremendous power. And the RS4 is lighter than I would have thought, especially compared to the C63.
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      01-27-2013, 11:38 AM   #48
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How is their weight measured so much lighter than BMW's official curb weight? They measure with a full tank, don't they?
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      01-27-2013, 12:58 PM   #49
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Conclusion appears to be if one gets a good launch, the MT maybe slightly slower/roughly the same as the DCT up to about 100-110mph. DCT likely to result in more consistency on track/dragstrip and can shift more quickly than any human, but doesn't mean that the MT under good launch conditions an get pretty close. There is a small weight penalty w/ the DCT (which is why some of these initial M3 test showed lower curb weights) that is more than made up for the quicker shifts.

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Originally Posted by Eau Rouge View Post
"Think" vs "know": Assuming anything about the testing equipment opens a can of worms, but regardless, in '07, three cars were tested at the same place, same day, etc..,

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      01-27-2013, 09:12 PM   #50
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If you are going to use the best 6MT times, you should compare to the best M-DCT times... straight from Car & Driver. 3.9 0-to-60, and 12.4 @ 114mph for a 2011 M3 w/ M-DCT during a head-to-head comparo with the RS5 and CTS-V.
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      01-27-2013, 09:48 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Alexander View Post
If you are going to use the best 6MT times, you should compare to the best M-DCT times... straight from Car & Driver. 3.9 0-to-60, and 12.4 @ 114mph for a 2011 M3 w/ M-DCT during a head-to-head comparo with the RS5 and CTS-V.
I don't think the OP claims it's the best MT times, just that it's better than expected when compared with all the DCT times measured across Road Tests.
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      01-27-2013, 11:00 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
those times were the European M3 coupe launch car, the test was conducted in Germany, and I think they didn't use the precise equipment to measure it. 12.5s 114mph is C63 level speed.

R&T got a 13.0s quarter with the M3 Sedan 6 MT in a California test a few months later. It was the only car that couldn't crack the 13s mark (against the C63, RS4, and ISF)

here's the link:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...dan-comparison
so your saying my car is slow.
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      01-27-2013, 11:12 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
so your saying my car is slow.
your speedo lies to you.
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      01-28-2013, 10:29 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davesaddiction View Post
How is their weight measured so much lighter than BMW's official curb weight? They measure with a full tank, don't they?
Well, there's weight, then their's weight. Some facts from forum member T Bone back in 2007, with a few of my edits:

Definitions:
•US Curb Weight = Weight of Car with standard accessories, full fluids, no driver
•EU Weight = Weight of Car with 90% fuel, 68 kg driver, 7 kg cargo
•Unladen Weight = Appears to be Curb Weight less 8 kg (can't find definition)
•1 US Gallon = 3.8 liters
•Weight of 1 US Gallon of Gasoline = 6.35 pounds (2.87 kg)
•Weight of 1 liter of Gasoline = 1.67 pounds (0.76 kg)
Equations for Weight Conversion:
•Curb Weight (metric) = EU1 Weight - 68kg for driver - 7 kg for cargo + (0.1 X Fuel Capacity X 0.76)
•EU Weight (metric) = Curb Weight + 68 kg for driver + 7 kg for cargo - (0.1 X Fuel Capacity X 0.76)
•1 KG = 2.2 pounds

BMW M3
•EU Weight = 1655 kg
•Curb Weight (manual) = 1655 kg - 68 kg - 7 kg + (0.1 X 63 liters X 0.76) = 1585 kg = 3,487 lb.

•US Unladen weight per MBUSA (manual) = 3,707 lb.

Certainly options standard or required here lead to some difference; the rest is up to your conjecture, unless someone has definitive information.
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