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      08-23-2007, 11:05 AM   #45
ToddMcF2002
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I agree x 1,000! I know they want to keep up with the competition and appeal to all of the many 'gadget people' in the world but please make all of that crap optional for the few dying breed purists that are left.

I'll have leather, 19s and a key fob as well (since we now have a ridiculous 'start' button).
By the time I sold my 01 with 16K miles, it had gone into limp mode at least 5 times. Always sensors. The last straw was a throttle sensor related to the dumb "Sport" button BS. Really what is the point of it? Instead of wasting all this time and energy making useless technology packages how about offering a decent BRAKE package? Brembo anyone???
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      08-23-2007, 11:26 AM   #46
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By the time I sold my 01 with 16K miles, it had gone into limp mode at least 5 times. Always sensors. The last straw was a throttle sensor related to the dumb "Sport" button BS. Really what is the point of it? Instead of wasting all this time and energy making useless technology packages how about offering a decent BRAKE package? Brembo anyone???
I assume you track your car, cause you wouldn't need a Brembo package for street?
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      08-23-2007, 11:48 AM   #47
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I assume you track your car, cause you wouldn't need a Brembo package for street?
I don't track, but I would like the option. But why offer so many goofy lux GT items and ignore performance options? Since they waited until the end of the e46 run to offer the Comp Package I guess I shouldnt be surprised.

I'm also very gun shy about all the electronics. I'm not kidding around, my car was a disaster. 9.5 weeks in the shop the last year I owned it. All of it ECU/Sensor related. At the end I wanted to take a sledge to the ECU.
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      08-23-2007, 12:15 PM   #48
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Well, you just click down on the paddle (or shift lever) until you hit neutral.(

Erm.....no.
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      08-23-2007, 12:16 PM   #49
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Sure, just click three times in succession.

Erm......no again.

The lowest gear you can engage by clicking the paddle and moving down the box is first.

To engage neutral you pull the lever left towards you.

Or, you pull both paddles whilst driving to recalibrate the shift learning aspect of drivelogic.
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      08-23-2007, 01:05 PM   #50
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      08-23-2007, 01:06 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
Erm......no again.

The lowest gear you can engage by clicking the paddle and moving down the box is first.

To engage neutral you pull the lever left towards you.

Or, you pull both paddles whilst driving to recalibrate the shift learning aspect of drivelogic.
Does your M coupe have SMG? What's your opinion on SMG, DCT vs. manual?
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      08-23-2007, 01:08 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
Erm......no again.

The lowest gear you can engage by clicking the paddle and moving down the box is first.

To engage neutral you pull the lever left towards you.

Or, you pull both paddles whilst driving to recalibrate the shift learning aspect of drivelogic.
Right....you can't shift to "neutral" using the paddles. Move the SMG lever(center console) to the middle, "0", or "N" position. My '02 goes to "0", but I'm told newer SMG's actually say "N".
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      08-23-2007, 01:47 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Sure, just click three times in succession.
Your credibility is shot on this one.

Each time you request a downshift the ECU and TCU talk and decide if an over-rev situation is immenent. If so the shift is aborted. If not there is a rev match and the SMG system makes the shift. I don't remember how it handles two quick downshift paddle clicks. mofomat?
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      08-23-2007, 01:48 PM   #54
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Nice to see the enthusiasts, who like myself, abhore all this electronic garbage. Lucid, I had no idea you were thinking about 6MT, welcome to the club. If the electronics actually functioned as intended past the first year, let alone past warranty they might be a nice addition. In paraphrasing Todd, BMW electronics are notoriously horrid. BMW needs to take a page from their Asian counterparts and test new electronic technology adnauseum before implementing. BMW, on the other hand has this ego problem where they have to continually prove they are the best engineers in the world by rushing technology to market in order to lay claim of the latest and greatest... lay claim they do - warranty work. Swamp gets me to the point where I strongly consider DCT, due to it's touted improved performance and efficiency, then I read on M5 board about all the SMG failures and BMW's refusal to CPO the cars or offer extended warranties. How long have BMW's engineers been working on this transmission and still can't get it right? I also like the idea, in theory of EDC, however, same concerns about reliability and cost of repair. I do think if one is going to get the 19 inch wheels, EDC may be necessary to make the ride compliant enough for long drives. 18 inch wheels should have enough sidewall to soften road imperfections without the need for EDC. Just hoping that staying away from M drive may somehow improve on center steering feel. I know Southlight doesn't think it will change anything. Epacy's lack of concern about the fade potential of the M3 brakes is remarkable. Notice BMW was smart enough to use track pads before handing over the M3 to journalist. Squeaked like buggers though. All these electronic gadgets as options and no brake upgrade even as an option is ludicrous. I thought the M Division standed for Motor Sport, not Grand Touring Weekend Jaunts. I guess the majority of buyers are looking to look good on the street.

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      08-23-2007, 02:52 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
Erm......no again.

The lowest gear you can engage by clicking the paddle and moving down the box is first.

To engage neutral you pull the lever left towards you.

Or, you pull both paddles whilst driving to recalibrate the shift learning aspect of drivelogic.
Ok well, its been years since I've driven one. Anyway, the point is you can put the car into neutral.
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      08-23-2007, 02:55 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Your credibility is shot on this one.

Each time you request a downshift the ECU and TCU talk and decide if an over-rev situation is immenent. If so the shift is aborted. If not there is a rev match and the SMG system makes the shift. I don't remember how it handles two quick downshift paddle clicks. mofomat?
Not sure how any of that would have a thing to do with shifting to neutral?

FYI, it handles two clicks by shifting down two gears - assuming no overrev will occur. If an overrev will occur then it goes into the lowest gear you've asked it to where an overrev will not occur.

Disclaimer: *As I remember it*.
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      08-23-2007, 03:29 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Does your M coupe have SMG? What's your opinion on SMG, DCT vs. manual?
SMG not available on the M Coupe. I don't mind as it's such a raw back to basics car that a standard shift suits it perfectly. It's so easy to heel and toe. Only downside with the gearbox is that it is definitely smoother and easier to use the harder you are driving. It's a real drivers car.

I had SMG on my E46 M3 a few years ago. Best option I chose. I love SMG and it certainly doesn't take away from the driving experience. It just makes it different.

I think the way forward is definitely automated manual gearboxes like SMG and DCT. I was scheduled to get the new M3 next month, but I delayed it to wait for the DCT. To me it's a no-brainer. My only reservation is that BMW make it too civilised (how I imagine the VW/Audi DSG gearbox to be although I've not driven one).
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      08-23-2007, 03:33 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Your credibility is shot on this one.

Each time you request a downshift the ECU and TCU talk and decide if an over-rev situation is immenent. If so the shift is aborted. If not there is a rev match and the SMG system makes the shift. I don't remember how it handles two quick downshift paddle clicks. mofomat?
Well as mkeosel put it. No problem changing down two or even three gears in quick succession. If it would result in an over-rev it won't perform the change.

Conversely, if you request too high a gear and the engine would labour, it won't let you change that too. It won't automatically change gears at the red line though (not in manual mode). It will just bounce off the rev limiter.

The help is just that. Help. It doesn't over-interfere at all.
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      08-23-2007, 03:52 PM   #59
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Quote:
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SMG not available on the M Coupe. I don't mind as it's such a raw back to basics car that a standard shift suits it perfectly. It's so easy to heel and toe. Only downside with the gearbox is that it is definitely smoother and easier to use the harder you are driving. It's a real drivers car.

I had SMG on my E46 M3 a few years ago. Best option I chose. I love SMG and it certainly doesn't take away from the driving experience. It just makes it different.

I think the way forward is definitely automated manual gearboxes like SMG and DCT. I was scheduled to get the new M3 next month, but I delayed it to wait for the DCT. To me it's a no-brainer. My only reservation is that BMW make it too civilised (how I imagine the VW/Audi DSG gearbox to be although I've not driven one).
Thanks for the opinion. Also, the transmission on the M coupe, is that a carry over from the E46 M3? And, I think I've asked this before on the forum, but did not get a clear answer: do you know the origins of the manual tranmission on the E92 M3?
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      08-23-2007, 04:10 PM   #60
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Epacy's lack of concern about the fade potential of the M3 brakes is remarkable.
Please inform me of how you arrived at this impression. Better yet, how I gave this impression off?
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      08-23-2007, 04:51 PM   #61
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Please inform me of how you arrived at this impression. Better yet, how I gave this impression off?
Probably mis spoke. It Just seems like anytime I or anyone else expresses concerns about the M3 brakes, or anything else, you seem to get defensive and for what reason? Thus, I figure you believe the M3 brakes are excellent shoes for your intended purposes. Again, I am only assuming.
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      08-23-2007, 06:35 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
Erm......no again.

The lowest gear you can engage by clicking the paddle and moving down the box is first.

To engage neutral you pull the lever left towards you.

Or, you pull both paddles whilst driving to recalibrate the shift learning aspect of drivelogic.


What "lever" are you talking about, the paddle or the gear shifter..?

Explain what pulling both paddles does again.. "recalibrate the shift learning aspect of drivelogic." Whats does that mean, is that NEUTRAL.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how smg and possible DSG will work. I never thought I'd ever consider this, but now I am so I am trying to frame up my driving style ans smoothness in my mind.

I need to know, plz.

IS it possible to be in neutral and still shift gears, such as using the gear shifter to put the car in neutral, then use the paddle shifters at he same time to select a gear so when you take the car out of neutral your in that gear ... ? Basically, how would you skip gears..?








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      08-23-2007, 07:26 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Thanks for the opinion. Also, the transmission on the M coupe, is that a carry over from the E46 M3? And, I think I've asked this before on the forum, but did not get a clear answer: do you know the origins of the manual tranmission on the E92 M3?

I couldn't give you a definite answer on either to be honest.
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      08-23-2007, 07:47 PM   #64
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Quote:
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What "lever" are you talking about, the paddle or the gear shifter
The gear shifter, not the paddle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Explain what pulling both paddles does again.. "recalibrate the shift learning aspect of drivelogic." Whats does that mean, is that NEUTRAL.
Over time, the SMG drivelogic system learns your driving style, and therefore adapts how the gears are changed. This is more relevant to the automatic gear changes, something which I used for about ten minutes in three years of ownership. I never once recalibrated the SMG in my M3.

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IS it possible to be in neutral and still shift gears,
No. You're in neutral and that's it. The display has an 'N' there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
such as using the shift lever to put the car in neutral, then use the paddle shifters at he same time to select a gear so when you take the car out of neutral your in that gear ... ?
Imagine you are doing 50mph down the street in 4th gear, and you slip the SMG shift lever to the left i.e. into neutral. The car begins to coast, the display says 'N'. If you wait for about 20 seconds and let the car gradually slow down, lets say to about 15 mph, and then you move the shift lever to the right again to engage a gear, the SMG system will select the most appropriate gear for the road speed. In this case probably 2nd. Then as you move the shift lever to the right to engage a gear, the 'N' disappears and '2' appears.

So the system automatically does what you were asking could be done manually by flicking the paddles.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Basically, how would you skip gears..?
You cannot skip gears when changing down using the paddles or shift lever. It just runs though the gears in order, but very quickly, depending on how quick you initiate each shift. However, if you gradually approach a set of traffic lights for example, in fourth gear, and do not disengage the gear, the system will remain in fourth for a long time, and quite happily. But, imagine the lights change to green before you come to a complete stop, and you then press gas. If you haven't initiated a downshift to 3rd and then 2nd using either the left paddle or the shift lever yourself, the system will automatically select the most appropriate gear (2nd) immediately (and therefore skipping 3rd altogether), allowing you to accelerate away and not labour the engine.

It's all very easy and intuative in practice, and it certainly doesn't take away from the driving experience for me. It's just a different experience.








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      08-23-2007, 08:23 PM   #65
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Nice to see the enthusiasts, who like myself, abhore all this electronic garbage. Lucid, I had no idea you were thinking about 6MT, welcome to the club. If the electronics actually functioned as intended past the first year, let alone past warranty they might be a nice addition. In paraphrasing Todd, BMW electronics are notoriously horrid. BMW needs to take a page from their Asian counterparts and test new electronic technology adnauseum before implementing. BMW, on the other hand has this ego problem where they have to continually prove they are the best engineers in the world by rushing technology to market in order to lay claim of the latest and greatest... lay claim they do - warranty work. Swamp gets me to the point where I strongly consider DCT, due to it's touted improved performance and efficiency, then I read on M5 board about all the SMG failures and BMW's refusal to CPO the cars or offer extended warranties. How long have BMW's engineers been working on this transmission and still can't get it right? I also like the idea, in theory of EDC, however, same concerns about reliability and cost of repair. I do think if one is going to get the 19 inch wheels, EDC may be necessary to make the ride compliant enough for long drives. 18 inch wheels should have enough sidewall to soften road imperfections without the need for EDC. Just hoping that staying away from M drive may somehow improve on center steering feel. I know Southlight doesn't think it will change anything. Epacy's lack of concern about the fade potential of the M3 brakes is remarkable. Notice BMW was smart enough to use track pads before handing over the M3 to journalist. Squeaked like buggers though. All these electronic gadgets as options and no brake upgrade even as an option is ludicrous. I thought the M Division standed for Motor Sport, not Grand Touring Weekend Jaunts. I guess the majority of buyers are looking to look good on the street.
+ 10 the lack of decent brakes on a 70k performance car is appalling. If EDC is anything like PASM it may be worth it though. it's come to the point where i would never keep a late model bmw past warranty because the electronics is a nightmare. on my 15 yr old e30 however, i have no such worries
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      08-23-2007, 09:14 PM   #66
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Lack of decent brakes? I guess that'd depend on your definition of "decent".

I'd say the M3 brakes are at least decent. The best $$$ can buy? Nope.
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