BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-23-2013, 08:44 PM   #67
m3an
Banned
 
m3an's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Florida

Posts: 1,611
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Rodeo View Post
Windshield glass is part of the structure of the car. Its ability to remain rigid is an important part of avoiding being crushed to death when the car flips. Identical looking but poorly manufactured products are commonplace on markets like eBay, an unscrupulous business owner could easily purchase unbranded glass from China off of eBay, put it in used PPI/BMW/etc. boxes, and sell it to every other customer and charge full price. Is this paranoia? Who cares, because it only takes a $300 surcharge to avoid it altogether.

For $288 (what I read above) more:
- Guaranteed OE. BMW's supply chain is controlled, tracked, and verified.
- Only the correct adhesives (perhaps the most important) used in the correct process.
- The correct dis-assembly and re-installation procedure. Nothing is worse than a shoddy repair which leaves behind a noisy or leaking windshield.

I could understand if the cost differential was significant, but we are talking 1/2 of a percent of the car's average MSRP.

If this was an aviation forum this wouldn't even be a question.


1. Wow, you sound super paranoid

2. This isn't an aviation forum

I have dealt w/ many A/M glass companies, and there's a reason that there's a market for A/M glass companies.. and they do very well
m3an is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-23-2013, 09:08 PM   #68
Goat Rodeo
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: '13 M3, '06 M3, '02 M3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: DC

Posts: 234
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3an View Post
1. Wow, you sound super paranoid
Exaggerated here to prove a point. $288 is not worth exposure to risks when it comes to safety; however remote they may be.

I have noticed that some of the more expensive parts I've purchased for my E46 recently have come with more hologram and counterfeit counter-measures on the packaging than most high security documents. I think when counterfeit ICs on a VLSI scale (or smaller) made their way into production lines it really spooked the industry.

Then again, I am not surprised that someone that voluntarily restricts 75% of the visibility in his car does not care about having original equipment glass. Everyone has different priorities and opinions here.

Last edited by Goat Rodeo; 01-23-2013 at 09:23 PM.
Goat Rodeo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-23-2013, 09:43 PM   #69
GIdriver
Major
 
GIdriver's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 SG/FR E90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Somewhere in Time

Posts: 1,338
iTrader: (0)

OEM
__________________
Akrapovic Evolution with Carbon Fiber tips | ESS Akra Evo tune V2 | Dinan Pulley | iND Cosmetic Package (Color Matched Front Grilles/Reflectors/Side Gills) in Space Gray | LUX H8 Angel Eyes

GIdriver is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-23-2013, 09:49 PM   #70
FogCityM3
Major
 
FogCityM3's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 (E90)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 1,435
iTrader: (0)

Go for Pilkinton OEM glass (same as the BMW glass which is also Pilkington without the BMW OE logo). The BMW windshield chips really easily, so why spend more money for something that's likely to be replaced again. I did this and in fact found out the third party who did the installs for the dealer did my re-install after a very bad chip. It's the same glass, and a quality provider should provide something in writing if you so desire.
FogCityM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-23-2013, 11:57 PM   #71
baba louey
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2012 M3 coupe
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: calgary

Posts: 235
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfly_M3 View Post
How so?



Safety is important. However I think that once you replaced the OEM glass installed from the factory, your biggest concern should be the installer, not the quality of the glass. I don't think A/M glass will shatter into big chunks and kill you. There are manufacturing standards around the world that dictate tempered glass as standard. Given you perform work at a reputable shop, I don't think you should have any worries.

Again, this is only my 0.02 cents
Correct me if I'm wrong but in North America, front windshields are not tempered. If they were then as soon as one got a chip or crack, the whole windshield would crack into little pieces. I was always under the impression that windshields are two sheets of non-tempered glass bonded to a middle sheet of plastic. The non-tempering keeps the window from shattering into little bits (so we can still see out of it) and the plastic sheet keeps the large pieces of glass together so we don't get skewered.

My 0.02
baba louey is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2013, 12:02 AM   #72
py0413
Major
 
py0413's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 M5
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: BC

Posts: 1,166
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfly_M3 View Post
How so?



Safety is important. However I think that once you replaced the OEM glass installed from the factory, your biggest concern should be the installer, not the quality of the glass. I don't think A/M glass will shatter into big chunks and kill you. There are manufacturing standards around the world that dictate tempered glass as standard. Given you perform work at a reputable shop, I don't think you should have any worries.

Again, this is only my 0.02 cents
It wasn't my M3 that had the windshield problem but my very first car back in 1999 that had a cracked windshield. I was a student with minimum income and I chose to go cheap on non-OEM windshield. 2 months later I had a leak which cost $6k to fix on a car that was worth not more than $9k. Learned my lesson the hard way.
__________________
Must stop eating..............
py0413 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2013, 12:06 AM   #73
Vic311
Banned
 
Drives: 2011 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NY

Posts: 1,469
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by py0413 View Post
It wasn't my M3 that had the windshield problem but my very first car back in 1999 that had a cracked windshield. I was a student with minimum income and I chose to go cheap on non-OEM windshield. 2 months later I had a leak which cost $6k to fix on a car that was worth not more than $9k. Learned my lesson the hard way.
A leak is due to installation error, nothing to do with OEM vs Aftermarket glass.
Vic311 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2013, 01:30 AM   #74
Superfly_M3
Captain
 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Toronto

Posts: 964
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by baba louey View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but in North America, front windshields are not tempered. If they were then as soon as one got a chip or crack, the whole windshield would crack into little pieces. I was always under the impression that windshields are two sheets of non-tempered glass bonded to a middle sheet of plastic. The non-tempering keeps the window from shattering into little bits (so we can still see out of it) and the plastic sheet keeps the large pieces of glass together so we don't get skewered.

My 0.02
You're right, its not temperred its separated with vinyl:


I couldn't find the right word for it.
Superfly_M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2013, 01:39 AM   #75
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
 
BMRLVR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

Posts: 2,301
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfly_M3 View Post
You're right, its not temperred its separated with vinyl:


I couldn't find the right word for it.
"Laminated safety glass" is the terminology you are looking for.

To the OP, go OEM or at the very least OEM supplier (Pilkington).
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
BMRLVR is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2013, 02:03 AM   #76
zamboni
I want to drive a Zamboni
 
zamboni's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 E82 128i 13 E93 M3
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Monte Sereno, CA

Posts: 3,094
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2013 BMW E93 M3  [0.00]
2009 E82 128i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Rodeo View Post
Windshield glass is part of the structure of the car. Its ability to remain rigid is an important part of avoiding being crushed to death when the car flips. Identical looking but poorly manufactured products are commonplace on markets like eBay, an unscrupulous business owner could easily purchase unbranded glass from China off of eBay, put it in used PPI/BMW/etc. boxes, and sell it to every other customer and charge full price. Is this paranoia? Who cares, because it only takes a $300 surcharge to avoid it altogether.

For $288 (what I read above) more:
- Guaranteed OE. BMW's supply chain is controlled, tracked, and verified.
- Only the correct adhesives (perhaps the most important) used in the correct process.
- The correct dis-assembly and re-installation procedure. Nothing is worse than a shoddy repair which leaves behind a noisy or leaking windshield.

I could understand if the cost differential was significant, but we are talking 1/2 of a percent of the car's average MSRP.

If this was an aviation forum this wouldn't even be a question.
Would you risk your life over $288 cost saving?

Install a none OEM on your M3?
__________________
13 E93 M3 Melbourne Red DCT/Premium/EDC/NAV/220M wheel
12 E93 Space Gray ( Retired BMW buy back )
09 E82 Space Gray/Black int/Steps/Sport/Nav/Premium/Xenon/Phone Int/Hifi/269 wheel
2006 E90 ( sold )
My next vehicle would be a Zamboni
zamboni is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2013, 02:40 AM   #77
py0413
Major
 
py0413's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 M5
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: BC

Posts: 1,166
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311 View Post
A leak is due to installation error, nothing to do with OEM vs Aftermarket glass.
I agree with you that it was mostly caused by bad installation. However, as for now, I am more financially flexible than I was back in high school and if I have to replace the windshield or anything, I'd rather spend that extra bit for peace of mind. That's just my $0.02

btw, my sister who knows nothing about car was able to tell that the windshield was replaced. She said it felt like as someone just put on a new pair of glasses. The curve was obviously different.
__________________
Must stop eating..............
py0413 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2013, 01:18 PM   #78
signes
Brigadier General
 
signes's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Spinnin at 8k

Posts: 4,160
iTrader: (3)

For everybody saying you have to get Pilkington, keep in mind Saint Gobain Sekurit glass is an OEM to BMW. The pic below was my last windshield also the current replacement.

__________________
08 E90 | Jet Black / Black | 6MT
Mods: RAC RG63 w/ Pirelli Corsa 255F/285R | Akrapovic Evo Exhaust | OEM Blacklines
Winter Setup: OEM 18s w/ Nokian Hakkapeliita R 245/40-18
signes is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2013, 01:40 PM   #79
Z K
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Z K's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 1,987
iTrader: (3)

Just make sure it is a quality glass they are using as the replacement. Big names like Saint Gobain, Pilkington, PPG etc. offer high quality replacement glass. In most cases they are the same or better quality than OEM. Avoid the cheap crap.

Just as important is the guys doing the install. Make sure they are good and know what they are doing. Any monkey can install auto glass, the difference is in the quality of the install.
Z K is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2013, 02:44 PM   #80
mkiv808
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 06 E90/Cayman S
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Milford, CT

Posts: 436
iTrader: (0)

It's worth it.
__________________
2009 BMW M3 E92 6M AW/FR
Eibach Springs + H&R Front Sway + LUX AE + LCI Taillights + BMW Performance CF Spoiler + Bastuck Clubsport Exhaust
mkiv808 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2013, 03:54 PM   #81
signes
Brigadier General
 
signes's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Spinnin at 8k

Posts: 4,160
iTrader: (3)

Looks like I got Pilkington this time around. Will be curious to see if it does better than the SGS one it replaced.

__________________
08 E90 | Jet Black / Black | 6MT
Mods: RAC RG63 w/ Pirelli Corsa 255F/285R | Akrapovic Evo Exhaust | OEM Blacklines
Winter Setup: OEM 18s w/ Nokian Hakkapeliita R 245/40-18
signes is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2013, 05:04 PM   #82
wabbit
wabbit!
 
wabbit's Avatar
 
Drives: ///1M
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mexico

Posts: 224
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by infamxkris View Post
difference in price is $288. So i would be paying 288 out of pocket.. the guy at the shop keeps assuring me the only difference between OEM and aftermarket is the BMW logo.. is he right? Also do any of you have any experience with MR. GLASS?
hehe they told me exactly the same!! i said bull·$"·$, quality it's not the same

go OEM!!
wabbit is offline   Mexico
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2013, 05:40 PM   #83
Vic311
Banned
 
Drives: 2011 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NY

Posts: 1,469
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
For everybody saying you have to get Pilkington, keep in mind Saint Gobain Sekurit glass is an OEM to BMW. The pic below was my last windshield also the current replacement.
+1 My last three BMWs including my M3..were all Saint Gobain Sekurit..for what its worth when I replaced my windshield, I used the Gobain glass minus the BMW logo..Same manufactuer, but not OEM. Worked fine
Vic311 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2013, 07:52 PM   #84
baba louey
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2012 M3 coupe
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: calgary

Posts: 235
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfly_M3 View Post
You're right, its not temperred its separated with vinyl:


I couldn't find the right word for it.
This is an aside to the theme of the thread but if you want to know whether glass is tempered, look at it through polarized sunglasses. If you see a pattern of light and dark areas, the glass is tempered. Tempering causes uneven stress in the glass which in turn causes variable polarization in the glass that is only visible when looking through polarized shades.

If you look at car's side windows with shades, you should see this pattern cuz they're tempered.

Sorry for the long story.
baba louey is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2014, 08:59 AM   #85
MMAJNKE
MMA Changed My Life!
 
MMAJNKE's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 m3 & f30 328i
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: so cal

Posts: 6,061
iTrader: (44)

Garage List
my oem windshield looks like shit speckles every where I will be changing it shortly.
MMAJNKE is offline   Japan
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2014, 12:16 PM   #86
TVMA Doc
Captain
 
TVMA Doc's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3, Jerez Black
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SF Bay

Posts: 663
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311 View Post
Just the rain sensor and if its not damaged it can be reused..

What headlight sensors are in the glass?
I'm pretty certain that the headlight sensor is on the back of the rear view mirror.

Oh, and wasn't Mr. Glass the fake boyfriend from the Brady Bunch? I haven't heard of him doing windows.
TVMA Doc is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2014, 06:30 PM   #87
quiksi
Captain
 
quiksi's Avatar
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 747
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to quiksi
Pilkington glass seems quite brittle - the most damage-resistant so far for me has been PPG who makes OEM for a bunch of companies
__________________

2011 E90 M3 6mt AW/Speed Cloth - ZCP, Moonroof, non-iDrive - PCD 12/9/10
Painted reflectors, matte black grills/gills, RemoteKey+, Homelink retrofit, V1 Hardwire, GP Thunder 8500K, modmy3 LED interior, VRS Replica CF Front Lip, Dinan Mufflers, HRE P40
quiksi is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2014, 06:41 PM   #88
PhillyNate
BMWCCA #405750
 
PhillyNate's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Philadelphia

Posts: 1,991
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
That Saint Gobain is some TOUGH SHIT!
__________________

"what I'm driving here...is an ending." Jeremy Clarkson
2011 Alpine White BMW M3 6mt ZCP Coupe (reluctantly sold 06/06/14)
2008 Alpine White BMW 328i 6mt Coupe (retired 06/21/11
)

PhillyNate is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:24 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST