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      08-22-2007, 04:57 PM   #45
hks786
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Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y View Post
he doesn't believe in GOD.....he believes in Allah.
Allah is God. Allah actually translates as "the only one to worship"...
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      08-22-2007, 05:01 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by its ray den View Post
oh hks, i've got a question for you. do you believe you deserve to be forgiven when you ask for it? if the answer is no, then what do you believe you deserve?

I believe that first I have to acknowledge I sinned. I have to then repent humbly to Allah and make the intention to not make the same mistake again. If I can whole-heartedly do this, then yes, I believe I deserve Allah's forgiveness unless there is something else in my heart that only Allah knows...
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      08-22-2007, 05:38 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
Allah actually translates as "the only one to worship"...
try telling that to the other 1000s of religion........

if that's true......then i fell sorry for everyone else.
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      08-22-2007, 06:00 PM   #48
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Try www.injesus.com. Largest Christian website in the world.
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      08-22-2007, 06:02 PM   #49
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      08-22-2007, 07:13 PM   #50
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Oh my god, I cant believe this thread is even on here...WTF? Get a life. There is no Jesus.
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      08-22-2007, 11:12 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by 155MPH View Post
Oh my god, I cant believe this thread is even on here...WTF? Get a life. There is no Jesus.
Agreed.

All there is, is life and death. Some people believe or have faith in knowing that there is something more than just this simple life that we live.

And to those people looking for that faith if it makes them happier than I am happy for them. I have accepted for me that all we have is here and now. For after, there is nothing but death.

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      08-23-2007, 01:18 AM   #52
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I do not believe Jesus died for the sins of the world.

A quick disclaimer before I begin, however; I know a lot of people are going to take my statements out of context and see them as harsh, unbelievable, and point to an unjust God. It took me a long long time to even begin to grasp this concept and see it as the only way, and truly a loving way.

Furthermore, I continually see people on these religious forums that are genuinely interested and curious, with real questions, including HKS786, who, from reading his posts, I have great respect for. There are people on all sides that continue to bash, mock, and insult other people based on their faith. Is this any different than racism? Would it be appropriate on this forum to insult people because they are Jewish, Chinese, African-American, etc? Would it be appropriate to use the N-word, or call all of our Middle Eastern brethren terrorists? I think not, so in the same light I believe these religious insults, discrimination, mocking, etc. should stop immediately.

That being said, again I do not believe Jesus died for the sins of the world. If He had, then wouldn't everyone be saved? Instead, I believe in Limited Atonement, which in a nutshell states that Jesus died for the chosen, or the elect. It's impossible for that statement to not anger people and to be used as evidence that God is unjust. If God chooses the people who are to be saved, then in essence, He chooses the people that are NOT saved, and therefore condemns people to hell correct? Well, it is OUR sins that condemn us, and if God IS a just God, then ALL of us deserve to be in hell. We can never "make up" for our sins, nor atone for them on our own. Such, then, is a need for divine intervention. Romans 3 states that no man would ever choose God. The common Christian belief, however, is that man has free will and can choose Jesus and savior, therefore becoming a Christian and a recipient of His saving Grace. Considering that no man will choose God, however, I believe it is God that chooses us first, and intervenes on our behalf, enabling our hearts to choose Him; otherwise our hearts are depraved and will never choose good, and never choose God. The basis of these beliefs can be summarized through the acronym TULIP, which was pioneered by John Calvin. I believe that much of his theological thoughts on this matter, however, are actually a reflection of Paul. If you read Paul's letters in its full context, he echoes this same theological pattern of belief, particularly in his long treatise found in Romans 3-9.

Sorry, it's late and that was pretty jumbled. Hopefully some food for thought, and I can try to clarify more later.

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Well, if I was to respond to that I would firstly ask who is Jesus? I have shown at great length that he is not the Son of God. Now, even if he was the Son of God, it would be theologically impossible for him to die for the sins of the world. I feel there are just far too many impossiblities and unanswered questions like in the above post by me...
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      08-23-2007, 04:52 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by 155MPH View Post
Oh my god, I cant believe this thread is even on here...WTF? Get a life. There is no Jesus.
If you dont believe that Jesus existed, that's fine, but you dont need to mock other's that do...

...Even if Jesus DIDNT exist (which he did), then dialogue between faiths is still a good thing. It helps us learn more about eachother and understand eachother's faiths.
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      08-23-2007, 05:38 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by fobunited
Furthermore, I continually see people on these religious forums that are genuinely interested and curious, with real questions, including HKS786, who, from reading his posts, I have great respect for. There are people on all sides that continue to bash, mock, and insult other people based on their faith. Is this any different than racism? Would it be appropriate on this forum to insult people because they are Jewish, Chinese, African-American, etc? Would it be appropriate to use the N-word, or call all of our Middle Eastern brethren terrorists? I think not, so in the same light I believe these religious insults, discrimination, mocking, etc. should stop immediately.
Well said bro.

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Originally Posted by fobunited
Well, it is OUR sins that condemn us, and if God IS a just God, then ALL of us deserve to be in hell. We can never "make up" for our sins, nor atone for them on our own.
This is where you and me differ, my friend. You see, Allah created us weak. He didn’t create us as perfect. We are limited in knowledge, we have free-will to make good or BAD choices, we can be tempted by the devil etc…

I don’t think we deserve to be in hell. No, this is not just wishful thinking, because the Quran and Bible make it explicitly clear that Allah has the complete power to forgive us when we return and repent and try to change our ways. I could show you a few parables that Jesus told us in the Bible. These parables highlight the EXACT same message. That’s why I feel the Bible carries a conflicting message.

Also, I find it hard to grasp that Allah would create us imperfect in many ways and then condemn us to Hell. I find it much easier to understand, as the Bible and Quran say, that Allah can exercise his beautiful quality of forgiveness. No, I’m not trying to find an “easy way out” or satisfy my mind, but rather, I think this is the truth. Allah created us knowing that we would sin, why would he create a sinful creation only to condemn them to Hell for their sins? This fails on all grounds of logic in my mind.

Moreover, In Surah 2 of the Glorious Quran, the Angels ask Allah why he is going to create humans who are weak and will sin. Allah replied “I know what you do not know”. This shows that Allah knew that man would sin BUT he also knew something else that only he knew. What can that be? Could it be that he was simply going to throw us in hell if someone didn’t die for our sins? No. Allah said that in full wisdom that he would send Prophets, Books & clear signs to show people the true path to Allah. He said that knowing that he has the full power to forgive people when they repent and make the intention to change their ways.

The Holy Prophet (SAW) said "Allah children of Adam (AS) are sinners. The best of sinners are those who repent". What a beautiful Hadith. Look how Allah shows understanding a love for his creation. How can people say that Allah doesnt create a one-to-one personal relationship with us?

What would you think of your teacher/proffesor, if he/she told you that "nothing less than 100% is acceptable?". You would think, "he/she has no understanding that we arent perfect and can have shortcomings." You would think that he/she had no understanding of basic human nature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fobunited
Considering that no man will choose God, however, I believe it is God that chooses us first, and intervenes on our behalf, enabling our hearts to choose Him; otherwise our hearts are depraved and will never choose good, and never choose God
I feel that this is quite weak. The reason is that some people actually do choose God. It is only too easy to criticise mankind and say we need God to make the first step, but he already done that when he sent to us Prophets, Books etc. After all, Prophets for example, are spokesmen who are called to speak on behalf of Allah. They create this relationship because they guide us to the truth and carry a message DIRECTLY from God.

Also, if we assume that Jesus came and died for us, did that bring all of humanity to Christianity? No. Because the fact is that ALL of mankind will never choose God. If you reply to this and say “That’s because man is weak”, then you will only confirm what Allah says in the Holy Quran that “man was created weak”. I have already discussed the implications of this above.

Again, with respect bro
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      08-23-2007, 05:44 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
Allah is God. Allah actually translates as "the only one to worship"...
then just say GOD why do you have to say "Allah"?
what christian refers to GOD as Allah
we are all speaking english here...
goto a catholic church and pick their brains, by a priest who is ordained...
not to some born again church where the pastor is just out of rehab or
did 5 yrs. in state and has now found the LORD....

its like this PROcede or The juice box

GL
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      08-23-2007, 06:33 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 155MPH View Post
Oh my god, I cant believe this thread is even on here...WTF? Get a life. There is no Jesus.
Bit of irony in your opening comment there, 155MPH.

As for the question, there's only one answer. For that subset of people that believe in Jesus, yes, he did. However, like all religious beliefs, we're looking at a primitive version of "The Matrix," and a lot of people simply won't take the blue pill.
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      08-23-2007, 09:09 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmramos44 View Post
then just say GOD why do you have to say "Allah"?
what christian refers to GOD as Allah
we are all speaking english here...
goto a catholic church and pick their brains, by a priest who is ordained...
not to some born again church where the pastor is just out of rehab or
did 5 yrs. in state and has now found the LORD....

its like this PROcede or The juice box

GL
  1. Because "Allah" is Arabic for God.
  2. Christians in Arab parts of the world call God "Allah" also because... see #1. They don't have to be Muslim to say "Allah."
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      08-23-2007, 09:19 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmramos44 View Post
then just say GOD why do you have to say "Allah"?
what christian refers to GOD as Allah
we are all speaking english here...
goto a catholic church and pick their brains, by a priest who is ordained...
not to some born again church where the pastor is just out of rehab or
did 5 yrs. in state and has now found the LORD....

its like this PROcede or The juice box

GL
Because I'm muslim and I call God Allah. Similarly, Christians would call God as Jesus whereas I would call him Prophet Isa (AS). I try as much as possible to refer to God and Jesus (AS) as what Christians would do, but sometimes I use what muslims would use. No harm done...

What's wrong with discussing it with fellow Christian brothers? So what if they cant answer all my questions or make their faith seem logical. I'm not forcing them to. This is just a simple dialogue between 2 faiths.

I find that it helps us understand eachother better. It helps me understand why Christians believe in what they do, and I'm guessing it helps them understand why I dont.
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      08-23-2007, 09:20 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Ninjaneer View Post
  1. Because "Allah" is Arabic for God.
  2. Christians in Arab parts of the word call God "Allah" also because... see #1. They don't have to be Muslim to say "Allah."
+1

Did you know that people try to say the word "Allah" didnt exist till the Holy Prophet (SAW) made it up? However, in the Arabic Bible, the word "Allah" appears 17 times on the first page alone!
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      08-23-2007, 10:07 AM   #60
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God, Yahweah (sp?), Jehovah, Allah, the Big dude.

And a funky correction, but God does not equal Jesus, even though they are equal. Oh, hear we go again
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      08-23-2007, 10:14 AM   #61
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Why did God make us imperfect? I think most will agree he had a plan we did not understand, but why not make us perfect "in his image"? Could it be His plan to demonstrate His love, to the point of sending Jesus to die for our sins?

We Christians beleive that the only one human to fully chose God was Jesus. As we all too often see, even those called to the religious service of God are mortal and weak of flesh, especially when it comes to the flesh.
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      08-23-2007, 11:03 AM   #62
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Why did God make us imperfect? I think most will agree he had a plan we did not understand, but why not make us perfect "in his image"? Could it be His plan to demonstrate His love, to the point of sending Jesus to die for our sins?
But we could forever ask why didnt God do this or that. We could always guess what God's plan could be. All I was trying to do is show that it is highly illogical for Jesus to die for us. Infact, it's not jus illogical, it's theologically impossible, even compared to the Bible and the teachings of Abraham (AS) etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede
We Christians beleive that the only one human to fully chose God was Jesus. As we all too often see, even those called to the religious service of God are mortal and weak of flesh, especially when it comes to the flesh.
But how can you say that Jesus was only human to choose God and then say he was with God in the beginning AND say he is part of the trinity? This suggests he ISNT human. I dont think anyone has yet been able to prove that you can be human and God/God's son/part of God at the same time.

Also, if you say Jesus is the only one to choose God, then that's sorta unfair seeing as Jesus was born without sin. Obviously if he was created without sin he will choose God. Both go hand in hand with eachother...


EDIT: I feel that the below statement might make some people think that I am being "stuck up" when I am genuinly interested in the answers to the questions I ask. I therefore removed the statement. Here it is:

I just hope that maybe one day a Christian on the forum will be able to answer these questions that I have.
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      08-23-2007, 11:03 AM   #63
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quick question ----

Allah....the same dude that the terrorists looked up when they attacked on 9/11?

if it is....i just lost my faith again.................
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      08-23-2007, 11:27 AM   #64
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If your faith is based on the actions of other men, then I guess it's not such a big loss.
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      08-23-2007, 11:28 AM   #65
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So did Allah make a mistake?
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      08-23-2007, 12:13 PM   #66
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So did Allah make a mistake?
With regards to what?

But ultimately the answer to that question is "no, Allah (God for non-Arabs - there, we all happy now? ) doesn't make mistakes."
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