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      06-09-2014, 01:03 PM   #1
FwdFtl
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College: Is it worth it?

I was C/O 2010 at CSUF, business major. Currently working in a field unrelated to business (Education) and really didn't need a degree to get my position in a management role.

I work indirectly with students. 85% want to go straight for their Master's degree and aren't sure why. The most common responses are 'to make more money and to make their parents proud'. 99% do not know how much their tuition will cost, how much debt they may incur and the average salaries associated with those majors.

Student loan debt exceeds credit card debt in America. This is the next bubble.

Is pursuing a college degree nowadays really worth it? Why or why not?
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      06-09-2014, 01:24 PM   #2
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I think it's worth it to an extent. I really think college gives you experience with many different things that you will need to know how to handle in the real world, but a lot of the curriculum that teaches you things that you will NEVER need, I think is completely useless and is just draining people of hard earned money.

I, myself, really want to go back just so I can finish my Associates for God's sake, just to have a degree of some sort. However, I've found that my real life experience in manufacturing has had a much larger impact on my current career, and probably wouldn't have helped any even if I had a degree.


I'm really on the fence. I think it has pros and cons, but I do see more and more people going into debt from student loans, and not being able to find jobs because they have taken on studies and a major that isn't exactly flourishing in today's society.
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      06-09-2014, 02:02 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Billup View Post
I think it's worth it to an extent. I really think college gives you experience with many different things that you will need to know how to handle in the real world, but a lot of the curriculum that teaches you things that you will NEVER need, I think is completely useless and is just draining people of hard earned money.

I, myself, really want to go back just so I can finish my Associates for God's sake, just to have a degree of some sort. However, I've found that my real life experience in manufacturing has had a much larger impact on my current career, and probably wouldn't have helped any even if I had a degree.


I'm really on the fence. I think it has pros and cons, but I do see more and more people going into debt from student loans, and not being able to find jobs because they have taken on studies and a major that isn't exactly flourishing in today's society.
Those are my main two points. Why get a degree just to have one?

The second bold point. I agree with your findings, it's a negative value proposition. Very low ROI.
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      06-09-2014, 02:11 PM   #4
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Those are my main two points. Why get a degree just to have one?

The second bold point. I agree with your findings, it's a negative value proposition. Very low ROI.
I agree on all points discussed. It is worth it to an extent. It really depends on major whether you'll get a job easily after school. It has paid off for me, I had multiple internships throughout college and accepted a full time position before even graduating.

In a maintenance type of field, I would see a business degree (even if it's only associates) helping out in obtaining a higher up managerial role. This would be my reason for going back and getting a masters - to land a manager position easier and faster.
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      06-09-2014, 02:13 PM   #5
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It's a joke in this country that lending institutes won't give a home loan to an 18 year old kid because they can't prove they can pay it off, but the same bank will gladly sock the kid with $150k or more in high interest student loans. And the student loans have no safety net. You can't Chap. 11 your way out of them.

I live in fear that the collapse of the student loan bubble will happen just as I'm retiring and it will kill my retirement funds.

I got my MS simply to open the way for me into higher level positions. And it worked. I didn't learn a damn thing aside from becoming very good at making Powerpoint presentations. But I went to a small, relatively inexpensive school, so I was able to pay as I went and owe nothing now. But compared to my undergrad degree, which taught me everything I needed to know to get started in my former field of expertise (geology), my master's program was a joke.
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      06-09-2014, 02:28 PM   #6
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in my experience, I'm blessed that I didn't go to College...

aside from the stupid loans you have to pay back, 85% of the curriculum taught for your particular major is worthless and not needed when you sit at a desk or get to the jobsite......

in college, you still have to take those worthless math classes, English papers and other meaningless crap - just like high school...

when did we ever once have to know who the fucking 27th president was when we interviewed for a job or was asked by a supervisor to calculate a calculus problem because the answer was needed before COB !?!?!

exactly........

sometimes I think school is for people who do not possess the fire and hunger to go out and make actual shit happen.

like for real - go out and pull some fucking people around, market yourself and your personality, speak with authority and knowledge, network and rub shoulders with other successful people and most importantly conduct business like a motherfucking ass kicker.....

some people "need" school to help them get in the door - others kick down that door with tenacity and an overall desire to want to succeed.....
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      06-09-2014, 02:37 PM   #7
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I'm good with school because I didn't pay a dime.

Zero student loan debt feels so nice.
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      06-09-2014, 02:41 PM   #8
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I believe it depends on the field but this topic has been beat to death in about 20 other threads.

Want to be a doctor? Yes college is worth it.

Want to be a guy that sells stuff? Probably not needed.

Want to sit and do coding all day? Maybe.
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      06-09-2014, 02:47 PM   #9
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It depends. Everyone has different circumstances, goals, aptitude, etc. If you wanna be an engineer, doctor, lawyer, dentist...you're going to college. Even most jobs now require a 2 year degree at least.

I want to go to medical school so college isn't just an option, it's a requirement. Luckily I'm going to a great school and won't have any loans for undergrad. The money wasn't something I had to fret about, but if it was, I'd probably be going to a service academy or doing ROTC at my current school. If I end up going to medical school, I might do the military program and get that paid for.

You can do 2 years at a community college and 2 at an in-state 4 year for a total price of about $50k. If you get a meaningful degree that's not that hard to pay off. Students don't have to go to a $250k school if it means loans.
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      06-09-2014, 02:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Litos View Post
in my experience, I'm blessed that I didn't go to College...

aside from the stupid loans you have to pay back, 85% of the curriculum taught for your particular major is worthless and not needed when you sit at a desk or get to the jobsite......

in college, you still have to take those worthless math classes, English papers and other meaningless crap - just like high school...

sometimes I think school is for people who do not possess the fire and hunger to go out and make actual shit happen.

like for real - go out and pull some fucking people around, market yourself and your personality, speak with authority and knowledge, network and rub shoulders with other successful people and most importantly conduct business like a motherfucking ass kicker.....

some people "need" school to help them get in the door - others kick down that door with tenacity and an overall desire to want to succeed.....
I agree on going out there and getting stuff done and getting a job/starting a career. But some paths need the degree no matter how stupid the classes may be. I would not be able to get the job I have now, or any similar job without my degree. With 10+ years of experience in the field I could probably get into my position now.

In my experience and talking with many other people that went to college the courses didn't really teach much about your job. I know mine didn't, I feel my degree was a way to teach students how to think and apply the knowledge they learn to their position.
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      06-09-2014, 03:00 PM   #11
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Damn these figures make me realize how easy I got off.

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      06-09-2014, 03:03 PM   #12
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I understand why people get mad and comment about learning 'dumb shyt' in college they never needed in life.
But you have to remember that college is supposed to train you to be a well rounded individual.
If you're majoring in Chemical engineering, it may seem silly to have to study the History of Ancient Libya since 1400. Or learn the 33rd Vice President of US. But how will you look some day when a random news anchor dude walks up to you in public and asks a random question like "Who's the xth President of US?"... you'll look so stupid not knowing the answer yet you have a college degree?

Anyway, back to the topic:
Go to College if you want to be a Doctor, Lawyer or Engineer (and by engineer i mean Mechanical, software or civil. Not just any of these new bullshyt engineer fields they have now-a-days).

Other than that, college is'nt really needed.

And if you do decide to goto college, make sure you go In-State and pick the cheapest college.
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      06-09-2014, 03:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Litos View Post

sometimes I think school is for people who do not possess the fire and hunger to go out and make actual shit happen.
I agree with this thought. Most students I see today are not driven, focused or have a road map on what their exact plans are in the future to come. They graduate and are like "what do I do now?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrder View Post
I believe it depends on the field but this topic has been beat to death in about 20 other threads.

Want to be a doctor? Yes college is worth it.

Want to be a guy that sells stuff? Probably not needed.

Want to sit and do coding all day? Maybe.
I disagree. This topic is a bit more specific. Historically speaking, (circa 1990's) college was a huge benefit and the cost to get in was low. In 2014 and moving forward, I believe most 4 year colleges are a bad deal.

Even you mentioned being a doctor. My fiancee who is a RN works closely with doctors and has heard a common theme among most of these doctors. They say, if they could do it all over again, they would have been a nurse.

Depending on the practice, these MD's have insane amounts of student loan debt and when it is paid off (~10 years later), they work so damn hard that the extra $10-30k they make over some of these RN's isn't worth it.
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      06-09-2014, 03:10 PM   #14
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Higher education is definitely something that can boost your career/salary when "correctly" chosen. But there are many fields that will NOT yield in higher pay or better career even with Masters degree and still cost $50k a year to pursue the degree.

I believe bachelor's mandatory to compete in the world, and master's is something you should pursue if you know what you are doing.
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      06-09-2014, 03:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whostheboss View Post
Anyway, back to the topic:
Go to College if you want to be a Doctor, Lawyer or Engineer (and by engineer i mean Mechanical, software or civil. Not just any of these new bullshyt engineer fields they have now-a-days).

Other than that, college is'nt really needed.

And if you do decide to goto college, make sure you go In-State and pick the cheapest college.
Solid advice.

Medicine, education and engineering, I believe I may be missing a couple are the most lucrative majors. Anything else
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      06-09-2014, 03:20 PM   #16
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Hell yeah it's worth it... BUT get a degree that's actually in demand.

STEM - Science, Technology, Engineering, Math
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      06-09-2014, 03:41 PM   #17
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But you have to remember that college is supposed to train you to be a well rounded individual.
I went to the Marines for that
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      06-09-2014, 03:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FwdFtl View Post
I agree with this thought. Most students I see today are not driven, focused or have a road map on what their exact plans are in the future to come. They graduate and are like "what do I do now?"



I disagree. This topic is a bit more specific. Historically speaking, (circa 1990's) college was a huge benefit and the cost to get in was low. In 2014 and moving forward, I believe most 4 year colleges are a bad deal.

Even you mentioned being a doctor. My fiancee who is a RN works closely with doctors and has heard a common theme among most of these doctors. They say, if they could do it all over again, they would have been a nurse.

Depending on the practice, these MD's have insane amounts of student loan debt and when it is paid off (~10 years later), they work so damn hard that the extra $10-30k they make over some of these RN's isn't worth it.
So ... if all the doctors became nurses, who would perform critical surgeries (orthopedic, cardiac, neuro, etc.)? Kind of need medical school for that ...

It's not always just about the money ...
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      06-09-2014, 03:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whostheboss View Post
I understand why people get mad and comment about learning 'dumb shyt' in college they never needed in life.
But you have to remember that college is supposed to train you to be a well rounded individual.
If you're majoring in Chemical engineering, it may seem silly to have to study the History of Ancient Libya since 1400. Or learn the 33rd Vice President of US. But how will you look some day when a random news anchor dude walks up to you in public and asks a random question like "Who's the xth President of US?"... you'll look so stupid not knowing the answer yet you have a college degree?

Anyway, back to the topic:
Go to College if you want to be a Doctor, Lawyer or Engineer (and by engineer i mean Mechanical, software or civil. Not just any of these new bullshyt engineer fields they have now-a-days).

Other than that, college is'nt really needed.

And if you do decide to goto college, make sure you go In-State and pick the cheapest college.
I studied economics and statistics and my degree has helped me out tremendously. What I studied is exactly what I do out of college and yes college is really needed to do what I do for a living.

It's not really worth it to study what I call hobbies instead of a skill that's in demand. Accounting is another good field, it's lucrative if you want to put in the time to get your CPA and no matter how the economy is doing...people always need accountants. It's just that accounting is boring and if you become an auditor, just know that I secretly hate you and whenever I see you in my office to do your annual audit, I want nothing more than to pour hot coffee all over you.
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      06-09-2014, 04:06 PM   #20
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So ... if all the doctors became nurses, who would perform critical surgeries (orthopedic, cardiac, neuro, etc.)? Kind of need medical school for that ...

It's not always just about the money ...
I mentioned most doctors, not all.

Yes, fortunately there are a few doctors that actually love what they do and don't mind the politics involved.
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      06-09-2014, 05:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FwdFtl View Post

I disagree. This topic is a bit more specific. Historically speaking, (circa 1990's) college was a huge benefit and the cost to get in was low. In 2014 and moving forward, I believe most 4 year colleges are a bad deal.

Even you mentioned being a doctor. My fiancee who is a RN works closely with doctors and has heard a common theme among most of these doctors. They say, if they could do it all over again, they would have been a nurse.

Depending on the practice, these MD's have insane amounts of student loan debt and when it is paid off (~10 years later), they work so damn hard that the extra $10-30k they make over some of these RN's isn't worth it.
You don't have a good example. You take the highest paid of any tier and the lowest paid of the other and compare them?

Nurses averaged 65k in 2012. Family medicine, geriatrics, and pediatricians easily double that on average.

I work with nurses and physicians everyday and have never heard a physician regret becoming a doctor. Now if you compare a specialty nurse, like a nurse anesthetist to an anesthesiologist you are talking about 160k vs 400k average. Doesn't seem to close to me.



http://money.usnews.com/careers/best...d-nurse/salary
http://healthcareers.about.com/od/co...r-Salaries.htm
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      06-09-2014, 05:22 PM   #22
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I think its worth it to the extent that being on your own and living by yourself, having to manage time, work hard, etc. are great skills that prepare you for the real world. its not so much the things you learn in the books as it is the experience of dealing with everything on your own.

But also, a lot of employers wont hire you if you dont have a college degree. For good jobs that is atleast. College grads make way more on average than high school grads because of this.

The gen ed classes are worthless, but when you actually get into your degree and take classes pertaining to your major, they are extremely helpful and teach you a lot of important things that you will need to work in that field when you graduate.
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