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      01-07-2013, 06:13 PM   #45
Skunk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Now you say "NASCAR and NHRA have max engine sizes, and I'm sure they target high power bands vs. low end torque".

Well duh. Max power per unit of displacement is only reachable at higher rpm, whether force fed or NA. Torque monsters are valueless in a race environment, as long as speeds are high. Horsepower is the only arbiter when speed is part of the equation, so high specific output is mandatory. It's that simple.
While this is generally true, it isn't 100% true. When you deal with restrictors, there is only so much air you can get to the engine, at which point you start looking at the torque curve and power delivery as opposed to all out power. The track layout also matters, as well, depending on the amount and radius of the turns.

You other arguments are spot on
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      01-07-2013, 06:52 PM   #46
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I use to have a GTI VR6...and at that point, the vwvortex forums would bang on about how great having an NA engine was etc...which I really didn't get...I had the MKIV which I didn't think sounded that great even w/ exhaust...and felt I would have rather had the turbo which could have been chipped and had more HP than me even if I did bolt ons...so I didn't get the NA argument then....only with the M...now I get it...the sound, the way it keeps pulling to the redline...it all makes sense. Personally I'm not at a point where I think I need more power than what this engine + bolt ons provides, so I'm thrilled owning this car.
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      01-07-2013, 07:50 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmdreamer View Post
I use to have a GTI VR6...and at that point, the vwvortex forums would bang on about how great having an NA engine was etc...which I really didn't get...I had the MKIV which I didn't think sounded that great even w/ exhaust...and felt I would have rather had the turbo which could have been chipped and had more HP than me even if I did bolt ons...so I didn't get the NA argument then....only with the M...now I get it...the sound, the way it keeps pulling to the redline...it all makes sense. Personally I'm not at a point where I think I need more power than what this engine + bolt ons provides, so I'm thrilled owning this car.
well said.
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      01-07-2013, 07:52 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skunk View Post
While this is generally true, it isn't 100% true. When you deal with restrictors, there is only so much air you can get to the engine, at which point you start looking at the torque curve and power delivery as opposed to all out power. The track layout also matters, as well, depending on the amount and radius of the turns.

You other arguments are spot on
Agree with you, but I've been in a "discussion" with a guy who doesn't know a lot, so keeping it simple matters.

Bruce
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      01-07-2013, 09:25 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmdreamer View Post
I use to have a GTI VR6...and at that point, the vwvortex forums would bang on about how great having an NA engine was etc...which I really didn't get...I had the MKIV which I didn't think sounded that great even w/ exhaust...and felt I would have rather had the turbo which could have been chipped and had more HP than me even if I did bolt ons...so I didn't get the NA argument then....only with the M...now I get it...the sound, the way it keeps pulling to the redline...it all makes sense. Personally I'm not at a point where I think I need more power than what this engine + bolt ons provides, so I'm thrilled owning this car.
have you ever heard the MKIV R32? now that was a great sounding car...
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      01-08-2013, 03:06 PM   #50
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have you ever heard the MKIV R32? now that was a great sounding car...
+1 (of course, I may be a little biased). Frankly, the NA characteristics I loved from the R32 were at least somewhat significant in convincing me to make the switch from my 335xi to the M3.
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      01-08-2013, 03:41 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Holy cow!

If you are ever down in the socal area, please let me know. I want to read that for myself. Will only take 2 minutes

If 12K rpm only gets you a broken valve spring then these things might as well be bulletproof!!
Of course!!!! I'll try and dig up the paperwork today and post it.
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