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      08-16-2007, 08:50 AM   #1
jareknyc
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Exclamation BMW confirms permanence of M3 CSL model - Guys its coming!!! ;)

Cars and NFL. Both offensive lineman and vehicles have been changing in parallel for a long time, getting bigger, stronger, and heavier. Even though the next-generation M3 grew larger and more powerful, the folks from Bavaria managed to cut weight by 7-percent versus the previous generation model. In an Inside Line interview with Gerhard Richter, vice president, BMW M Gmbh, yet another iteration of the still lighter CSL is a dead-lock guarantee. It seems BMW has figured out that people will pay more for increased agility that doesn't necessarily include monster horsepower. Now that we know the M3 CSL will always have a place in the Bimmer lineup, the only question left is when, what kind of diet we're talking about, and how much it's going to cost. We'd be happy with a run of the mill M3 until those answers become available.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/24/b...-m3-csl-model/
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      08-16-2007, 09:04 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jareknyc View Post
Cars and NFL. Both offensive lineman and vehicles have been changing in parallel for a long time, getting bigger, stronger, and heavier. Even though the next-generation M3 grew larger and more powerful, the folks from Bavaria managed to cut weight by 7-percent versus the previous generation model. In an Inside Line interview with Gerhard Richter, vice president, BMW M Gmbh, yet another iteration of the still lighter CSL is a dead-lock guarantee. It seems BMW has figured out that people will pay more for increased agility that doesn't necessarily include monster horsepower. Now that we know the M3 CSL will always have a place in the Bimmer lineup, the only question left is when, what kind of diet we're talking about, and how much it's going to cost. We'd be happy with a run of the mill M3 until those answers become available.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/24/b...-m3-csl-model/
This really is great news to wake up to! It shows you that BMW recognizes that there are some real bmw-philes out there who still believe lightweight is the answer to driving fun more then high horsepower. Or atleast, a better balance between the two I should say.

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      08-16-2007, 09:10 AM   #3
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It gets better and better.
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      08-16-2007, 09:14 AM   #4
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anticipation at its greatest!
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      08-16-2007, 09:35 AM   #5
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      08-16-2007, 09:45 AM   #6
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This really is great news to wake up to! It shows you that BMW recognizes that there are some real bmw-philes out there who still believe lightweight is the answer to driving fun more then high horsepower. Or atleast, a better balance between the two I should say.
What's not so clear is whether it will come to the US, though. If they could keep the price prremium below $10k they could have a pretty good market as a true 911S competitor.
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      08-16-2007, 09:54 AM   #7
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It is bound to be very expensive, thus largely irrelevant for most of us. CSL at almost the same price as the regular M... Now we are talking.
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      08-16-2007, 10:01 AM   #8
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I hope they make it a competitor to the 997 GT3 just like the E46 M3 CSL was to the 996 GT3... and i also think they should price it to competite against the GT3 even if its way out the my price range (~$95,000). A 3,200-3,300 weight range would be excellent and i'm sure not much more power would be needed given the already excellent engine and add a SMG/DCT transmission...
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      08-16-2007, 10:08 AM   #9
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My prediction, it will have the 50% price increase as it did in the past and it will not be coming to the US.
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      08-16-2007, 10:45 AM   #10
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My prediction, it will have the 50% price increase as it did in the past and it will not be coming to the US.
that is my guess as well
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      08-16-2007, 10:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jareknyc View Post
Even though the next-generation M3 grew larger and more powerful, the folks from Bavaria managed to cut weight by 7-percent versus the previous generation model. http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/24/b...-m3-csl-model/
Am I missing something here? 7% weight reduction compared to the E46? What are they talking about--the engine only?
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      08-16-2007, 11:49 AM   #12
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Am I missing something here? 7% weight reduction compared to the E46? What are they talking about--the engine only?
I'm still confused about the weight and we don't have US specs yet. If you take the Euro weight of 1,655 kg, which includes 68 kg driver, 7 kg luggage and 90% fuel load and back out those weights you get 1,655-68-7-43 = 1,537 kg or about 3,389 lb. "unladen weight", which is what BMWUSA has always cited, I believe. The figure for the manual E46 M3 was 3,414 lb,, if I recall correctly. Can anyone explain this?
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      08-16-2007, 11:56 AM   #13
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      08-16-2007, 12:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
I'm still confused about the weight and we don't have US specs yet. If you take the Euro weight of 1,655 kg, which includes 68 kg driver, 7 kg luggage and 90% fuel load and back out those weights you get 1,655-68-7-43 = 1,537 kg or about 3,389 lb. "unladen weight", which is what BMWUSA has always cited, I believe. The figure for the manual E46 M3 was 3,414 lb,, if I recall correctly. Can anyone explain this?
It's amazing such a simple concept as weight can be measured in so many different ways and result in so much confusion. If we were to simply stick to the European numbers BMW released for the E46 and E92 M3, what would be the difference? I tried the international BMW website for the E46 data, but the link to the E46 M3 is now gone--it was there a month ago. So, does someone have the official BMW EU weight for the E46 M3?
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      08-16-2007, 02:59 PM   #15
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Okay, I clicked on a bunch of international BMW sites, and the UAE site still has the E46 M3 info. The "Unladen EU" weight for the E46 is 1570kg. BMW internation site has the E92 M3 "Unladen EU" weight down as 1655 kg. So, the E92 is 5.4% heavier than the E46 by unladen EU weight standards. I have no idea what the claimed 7% weight reduction is about unless they are talking about the engine or something.
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      08-16-2007, 03:06 PM   #16
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It's amazing such a simple concept as weight can be measured in so many different ways and result in so much confusion. If we were to simply stick to the European numbers BMW released for the E46 and E92 M3, what would be the difference? I tried the international BMW website for the E46 data, but the link to the E46 M3 is now gone--it was there a month ago. So, does someone have the official BMW EU weight for the E46 M3?

I confirm, these are the true weights for Europe.
Official empty weight at 3.386lbs!!
Sorry if I repost my first post..But I am totally sure about these numbers.
I have the prove of what I write..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, after taking a close look to my Italian official brochure of the new M3,and after I sew many discussions about the true empty weight I would like to share with you in this my first post, what I know.. I have seen many posts talking about a true weight of more than 3500 lbs, but to me this doesn't seem true. Probably this was already discussed, but in any case I tell you what I read in my brochure.These are official numbers .

so...new M3:

empty weight
1655 kg EU 3.645 lbs
inclused:
68 kg for pilot 149,7 lbs
7 kg for baggage 15,4 lbs
90% of fuel 93,6 lbs

final empty weight:

1.537,4kg
3.386 lbs

Interesting is that using the same system you can compare the e46 weights:


empty weight :
1.570 kg
3.458 lbs

final weight after detractions:

1.452,4 kg
3.199 lbs

Final difference between the two cars according to these numbers:
84,6 kg
186 lbs.

This is the weight of one person but with 77 hp more.
Are all of us able to feel a so big difference in performance when we run alone or with one our friend on board on our sport car?
So, this is the true difference between the two cars. One person (his weight)..but with much more hp available.

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      08-16-2007, 03:14 PM   #17
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Here is some weight info/discussion:

"Despite the weight-saving roof structure, the fact the compact new V8 actually weighs 15kg less than the current M3's inline six and that in base 323i guise (1405kg) the E92 coupe sheds a further 15kg (over its direct E46 predecessor, the 320Ci), it's dissapointing to see the M3's overall weight increase - particularly after so much talk of weight-saving and BMW's latest "EfficientDynamics" mantra.

For the record, the new M3's unladen EU weight (including 68kg for driver, 7kg for luggage and a 90 per cent full fuel tank) rises a considerable 85kg - from 1570kg to 1655kg. BMW Australia quotes kerb weights of 1495kg (E46 M3) and 1580kg (E92 M3) respectively.

BMW says the extra weight is the result of the bigger two-door body, extra equipment and superior crashworthiness – but points out it is still 100kg lighter than its most direct rival in the Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG coupe (1755kg).

However, the model that has established Audi as a serious player in the compact performance car stakes in recent times, the wild RS4 sedan (also available in Avant and Cabriolet bodystyles), weighs 5kg less at 1650kg, packs a larger 4.2-litre V8 with the same 309kW and even more torque (430Nm) and comes standard with all-wheel drive."

Source:
http://www1.autotrader.com.au/mellor...2573130081A3EA
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      08-16-2007, 03:21 PM   #18
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Here is some weight info/discussion:

"Despite the weight-saving roof structure, the fact the compact new V8 actually weighs 15kg less than the current M3's inline six and that in base 323i guise (1405kg) the E92 coupe sheds a further 15kg (over its direct E46 predecessor, the 320Ci), it's dissapointing to see the M3's overall weight increase - particularly after so much talk of weight-saving and BMW's latest "EfficientDynamics" mantra.

For the record, the new M3's unladen EU weight (including 68kg for driver, 7kg for luggage and a 90 per cent full fuel tank) rises a considerable 85kg - from 1570kg to 1655kg. BMW Australia quotes kerb weights of 1495kg (E46 M3) and 1580kg (E92 M3) respectively.

BMW says the extra weight is the result of the bigger two-door body, extra equipment and superior crashworthiness – but points out it is still 100kg lighter than its most direct rival in the Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG coupe (1755kg).

However, the model that has established Audi as a serious player in the compact performance car stakes in recent times, the wild RS4 sedan (also available in Avant and Cabriolet bodystyles), weighs 5kg less at 1650kg, packs a larger 4.2-litre V8 with the same 309kW and even more torque (430Nm) and comes standard with all-wheel drive."

Source:
http://www1.autotrader.com.au/mellor...2573130081A3EA
I agree on your comments. But I am almost sure (Swamp sure told something about in the past) that the RS4 declares 1650 kg empty weight, not like BMW. This means not luggage, not fuel,not pilot...I will check, but I am sure at 99%..So 1.650kg against 1.537,4 of the m3.
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      08-16-2007, 03:23 PM   #19
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I agree on your comments. But I am almost sure (Swamp sure told something about in the past) that the RS4 declares 1650 kg empty weight, not like BMW. This means not luggage, not fuel,not pilot...I will check, but I am sure at 99%..So 1.650kg against 1.537,4 of the m3.
Bye
I simply copied and pasted from the autotrader article. I don't know how the RS4 weight was measured.
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      08-16-2007, 03:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
I'm still confused about the weight and we don't have US specs yet. If you take the Euro weight of 1,655 kg, which includes 68 kg driver, 7 kg luggage and 90% fuel load and back out those weights you get 1,655-68-7-43 = 1,537 kg or about 3,389 lb. "unladen weight", which is what BMWUSA has always cited, I believe. The figure for the manual E46 M3 was 3,414 lb,, if I recall correctly. Can anyone explain this?
U.S. "unladen" weight includes full fuel, oil and coolant. Your recollection that the U.S. E46 weighed in at 3,414 pounds unladen sounds about right, since our '04 weighed in on a certified scale at 3408, lacking only about two gallons of fuel, and adding only the weight (if any) of Harmon Kardon and HIDlights. Adding the 55kg published difference between the Euro E46 and E92 M3s, one estimate for U.S. E92 weight would be 3601 pounds.

Another way of doing it would be to take the published difference between the Euro 335i and E92 M3 (1600KG vs 1655kg), and adding that back to the 3,571 published weight of the U.S.spec 335i, giving you (oof!) 3,692 pounds.

Of course, either of these two estimates is suspect, since U.S. standard equipment plus safety and bumper protection features may vary, both from their differences to Euro spec and between individual models.

However, since the models recently tested in Spain by the various nutbooks came in at 3,649 pounds (or 3,650, reading Car & Driver), this pretty much splits the difference.

Basically, too much.

Bruce

Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 08-16-2007 at 03:57 PM. Reason: grammar
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      08-16-2007, 04:00 PM   #21
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I simply copied and pasted from the autotrader article. I don't know how the RS4 weight was measured.
No problem:-)
I confirm that the weight of the RS4 is meant as empty. So without the driver (this is written) , but it is not sure if with fuel or not. They simply don't say it.Not in the Italian website but also not in the German catalogue that I have in my hands.
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      08-16-2007, 04:06 PM   #22
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However, since the models recently tested in Spain by the various nutbooks came in at 3,649 pounds (or 3,650, reading Car & Driver), this pretty much splits the difference.

Basically, too much.

Bruce
I agree...too much!!
but are you sure that the journalists had the possibility to use their scales?or simply they used the weights that BMW has given them during the press conference?without to make too many mental speculations and only making a simple report?In fact what they say ( Car and Driver for ex...3.650lbs) is exactly the 1.655 kg that BMW declares into their catalogues...
 
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