BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
Lux Angel Eyes
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-04-2013, 12:14 AM   #155
VCMpower
Banned
Canada
9
Rep
941
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 Dakar, 2013 Fire Orange
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Victoria B.C.

iTrader: (0)

Appreciate 0
      05-05-2013, 12:40 PM   #156
Radiation Joe
Veni Vidi Vici
Radiation Joe's Avatar
United_States
37
Rep
2,749
Posts

 
Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Macungie PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 e90 M3-Sold  [4.25]
2003 RS6 - Sold  [0.00]
2009 e90 M3 - Gone  [0.00]
2003 M3 SOLD  [0.00]
old 2002  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by e92zero View Post
I sometimes wonder if the BMW engine was really designed with a thinner grade oil from the start with the tight tolerance that BMRLVR pointed out. Then another BMW department decided to market and use the 10-60w for the prolonged 15k oil change interval. Would really like to know about the use of thinner oil, especially for some of us that change the oil at 5k or 7.5k.
Take a look here.

I've run a mixture of 5W-30 Redline mixed 50/50 with Redline 40W race oil for the last two runs in my car. The current fill is 10W-40 mixed with the 40W. I want to get in some track time and see how the used oil analysis (UOL) comes back.
__________________

Dinan compliment of stuff plus PF rotors and RG63s. Enough for now.
Why, yes. I am an abrasive bastard.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2013, 03:01 PM   #157
VCMpower
Banned
Canada
9
Rep
941
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 Dakar, 2013 Fire Orange
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Victoria B.C.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by e92zero View Post
I sometimes wonder if the BMW engine was really designed with a thinner grade oil from the start with the tight tolerance that BMRLVR pointed out. Then another BMW department decided to market and use the 10-60w for the prolonged 15k oil change interval. Would really like to know about the use of thinner oil, especially for some of us that change the oil at 5k or 7.5k.
Take a look here.

I've run a mixture of 5W-30 Redline mixed 50/50 with Redline 40W race oil for the last two runs in my car. The current fill is 10W-40 mixed with the 40W. I want to get in some track time and see how the used oil analysis (UOL) comes back.
Great info. Look forward to the results on the thinner mix.
Appreciate 0
      05-06-2013, 12:04 AM   #158
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
39
Rep
2,332
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
Take a look here.

I've run a mixture of 5W-30 Redline mixed 50/50 with Redline 40W race oil for the last two runs in my car. The current fill is 10W-40 mixed with the 40W. I want to get in some track time and see how the used oil analysis (UOL) comes back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMpower View Post
Great info. Look forward to the results on the thinner mix.
I am not at all surprised with these results and I am tempted to start using 0w40 or 5w40 for my next oil change!

If you look at Joe's UOA reports, he is one of the few people who have no lead in his samples.......... I will definitely be sampling my car on the next oil change and may change out to a something in a 40WT and then sample that!
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
Appreciate 0
      05-06-2013, 12:21 AM   #159
VCMpower
Banned
Canada
9
Rep
941
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 Dakar, 2013 Fire Orange
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Victoria B.C.

iTrader: (0)

This is getting good
Appreciate 0
      05-06-2013, 12:29 AM   #160
VCMpower
Banned
Canada
9
Rep
941
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 Dakar, 2013 Fire Orange
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Victoria B.C.

iTrader: (0)

I have been using Fuchs Titan 10w60 for over 2 years now and I did so as I'm always skeptical of dealer recommendation. Fuchs far exceeds Castrol without getting technical, if you have to know more you can research the 2 and compare. I will have my oil analyzed as well for curiosity. I do like the idea of a lighter oil if these results come back supporting it. Good stuff
Appreciate 0
      05-06-2013, 12:30 AM   #161
VCMpower
Banned
Canada
9
Rep
941
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 Dakar, 2013 Fire Orange
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Victoria B.C.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
Take a look here.

I've run a mixture of 5W-30 Redline mixed 50/50 with Redline 40W race oil for the last two runs in my car. The current fill is 10W-40 mixed with the 40W. I want to get in some track time and see how the used oil analysis (UOL) comes back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMpower View Post
Great info. Look forward to the results on the thinner mix.
I am not at all surprised with these results and I am tempted to start using 0w40 or 5w40 for my next oil change!

If you look at Joe's UOA reports, he is one of the few people who have no lead in his samples.......... I will definitely be sampling my car on the next oil change and may change out to a something in a 40WT and then sample that!
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2013, 03:34 PM   #162
bigjae1976
That's what she said...
bigjae1976's Avatar
83
Rep
5,623
Posts

 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
I have pointed out what I think is the issue with the S65 "bearings" in a few threads now, but unfortunately someone at M3 post deleted posts as the discussions continued.

There is no major bearing issue with the S65. What the S65 has is oil clearances on the Main and Rod bearings that are in my opinion way too tight. For most engines there will most likely never be an issue, but, with clearances of around 0.001 there is not much room for error on assembly/during machining of the main bearing bores in the block. Basically what I am saying is that on an engine where the alignment of the main bearing bores is out even slightly or a rod has a big end that is even minutely oval shaped (either from manufacturing or by being stretched from an over-rev), there is no room for error at all. If the engine had say 0.002 which is a number that I feel should be a minimum, or even 0.0025 which the number I would like to see (TWS 10W60 is ideal to take advantage of this larger clearance since the viscosity of 60 at operating temp would lend you to believe it could handle a large oil clearance and oil pressure should not suffer) issues with the S65 main and rod "bearings" would be non existent.

So to all of you folks that think that the S65 has a rod bearing issue, that is not in any way shape of form the case, the S65 has a oil clearance issue and unless that is addressed no bearing you put into this engine will solve the problem unless the machine work is done to set the clearances to an acceptable number!
Exactly right. Similar issue with the S54, the clearances are so tight and manufacturing hiccup is a disaster waiting to happen. This is one of those issues where if it doesn't happen under warranty then it won't happen.

I also think that the S65 will have a similar life expectancy of the rod bearings when compared to the S54 ...100k miles. According to a BMW Master Tech...100k miles is about the average life of S54 rod bearings. I plan on doing preventive replacement on my S65 at 100k. I'm guessing blocks and cranks will be scarce and expensive.

I've felt the pain of spinning 3 bearings on my E46 M3.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2013, 11:23 PM   #163
Checkcaptain
Captain
Germany
40
Rep
995
Posts

 
Drives: BMW M3 E92
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to Checkcaptain Send a message via Skype™ to Checkcaptain
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Generally speaking, oil pressure does drop as oil clearance increases hence the reason why engines lose oil pressure if main and/or rod bearings are worn excessively.

20-25 PSI is lots of oil pressure at idle (40 PSI actually a fairly high number at idle) if that is even the number that the S65 engine would have at .002". I have never seen anyone test the oil pressure on an S65 with .002" main bearing clearance but would look forward to the numbers. As for your maximum pressure, that is going to be set by the system relief valve......... if the relief is at 80 PSI, once the pump makes enough flow to go over relief it will still achieve that same 80 PSI that you state, it may just take a few more RPM to get there........ the principles of hydraulics are universal pressure is the resistance to flow and more flow equals more pressure. Flow increases as the oil pump RPM increases(oil pump speed is tied directly to engine RPM) which is why there has to be a system relief to protect the system from overpressure since the oiling system on the S65 uses a positive displacement pump.

FYI: Dinan sets the main bearings to .0019" and the rods to .0025" on their strokers....... I obtained this information while shopping for a stroker! Obviously they see an issue with the tight OEM clearances and they don't see an oil pressure issue with adding a bit of clearance to the Mains and Rods since they use an OEM oil pump!


I can confirm that. When we were changing the rod bearings after 20.000km on my stroker and checked the clearance it was 0.063mm,
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2013, 01:28 AM   #164
VCMpower
Banned
Canada
9
Rep
941
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 Dakar, 2013 Fire Orange
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Victoria B.C.

iTrader: (0)

.0024 , good info.
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2013, 01:47 AM   #165
magicknife
Registered
0
Rep
3
Posts

 
Drives: BMW M3 E92
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Salford

iTrader: (0)

E92 m3 blown bearing in engine

Hello there I have an e92M3 ie until last Saturday. Initially started off as a light ticking sound at3000 rpm, got louder gradually, so loud that when I phoned BMW emergency service, the could hear it over the phone.

Lucky I have BMW extended warranty I got a courtesy car. As it was over a sat, the BMW technician came over, listened to the sound and said it needs a new engine. So lets see what BMW say. Will keep you posted.
Cheers people
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2013, 10:03 AM   #166
aus
Major General
117
Rep
7,406
Posts

 
Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (5)

Anyone know if BMW is increasing the tolerances on new engines?
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2013, 04:06 PM   #167
e90m3_6MT
First Lieutenant
Canada
9
Rep
313
Posts

 
Drives: e90 M3 Silverstone, 6MT, 19's
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Montréal

iTrader: (0)

I had a broken connecting rod few weeks ago that damaged the crank, block and head of the engine. I wonder if the broken rod could have something to do with a bearing issue?

Good thing the car has the extended warranty

There's a brand new crate engine coming from Germany!
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2013, 04:28 PM   #168
MisterEm
Private First Class
1
Rep
138
Posts

 
Drives: beater
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: no bueno

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e90m3_6MT View Post
I wonder if the broken rod could have something to do with a bearing issue?
I would bet my first born this particular rod bearing seized and you threw the rod in question.

Glad to see BMW taking care of you. I hope the fix is up to your satisfaction.
__________________
'02 M3 Topaz/Cinnamon CSL Box, Lid, & Roof, SSV1's, Morr VS8.2's, TTFS tune 322/249 SAE on 91 (stock head/cams) - Ported head, 288/280 cams coming soon.
'11 X5d Jet Black/Oyster Sport Activity, Technology, 214's, Tow Package, TTFS Diesel Tune (coming soon)
Appreciate 0
      06-09-2013, 06:18 AM   #169
GIdriver
Major
GIdriver's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
1,342
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 E63 AMG-S
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Somewhere in Time

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by magicknife View Post
Hello there I have an e92M3 ie until last Saturday. Initially started off as a light ticking sound at3000 rpm, got louder gradually, so loud that when I phoned BMW emergency service, the could hear it over the phone.

Lucky I have BMW extended warranty I got a courtesy car. As it was over a sat, the BMW technician came over, listened to the sound and said it needs a new engine. So lets see what BMW say. Will keep you posted.
Cheers people
Thanks for sharing. Just out of curiosity, can you post mileage? Any updates?
__________________
2014 E63 AMG-S
2012 C63 AMG (P31) - gone
2011 E90 M3 FBO - gone
Appreciate 0
      06-09-2013, 03:38 PM   #170
s65e90
Banned
6
Rep
513
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 e90
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SoFlo

iTrader: (0)

What baffles me (as it seems so simple) is why use such a thick oil on a car w/ such tight tolerances. a thinnner oil would seem to be able to have much better lubrication. But I know that the 10 60 is designed to take a beating; maybe we just don't drive these cars hard enough
Appreciate 0
      06-09-2013, 06:02 PM   #171
aussiem3
Lieutenant Colonel
aussiem3's Avatar
Australia
30
Rep
1,689
Posts

 
Drives: Goggomobil
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kangaroo land

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2014 BMW X5 30d  [0.00]
2007 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by s65e90 View Post
What baffles me (as it seems so simple) is why use such a thick oil on a car w/ such tight tolerances. a thinnner oil would seem to be able to have much better lubrication. But I know that the 10 60 is designed to take a beating; maybe we just don't drive these cars hard enough
Your probably right. Given some of the insane speeds on the Autobahn I'm sure these engines were tested and bedded in those conditions. Also some of us tend the baby the /// engines a lot without driving it the way it should be in the first place. Having said that, there are no public roads outside Germany where you can do such speed, and even if you're a everyday commuter on a high/freeway you will be cruising.
__________________

2007 E92 6MT - Silverstone II with /// Performance Exhaust with ACM Test Pipes and BPM Sport Stage II Dev-Tune - Proper engine warm up, 12-monthly oil change, Castrol TWS 10w-60
2014 F15 X5 3.0d
Appreciate 0
      06-09-2013, 07:56 PM   #172
Richbot
Colonel
30
Rep
2,120
Posts

 
Drives: Jerez Black E90
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: STL

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by s65e90 View Post
What baffles me (as it seems so simple) is why use such a thick oil on a car w/ such tight tolerances. a thinnner oil would seem to be able to have much better lubrication. But I know that the 10 60 is designed to take a beating; maybe we just don't drive these cars hard enough
Even a hard driven street car has to start from a dead cold condition and that's where a toight like a toiger motor build can hurt you. Maybe we should all have external F1-style coolant heaters with quick disconnects to keep it at operating temperatures before startup...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2013, 09:52 PM   #173
M3NST3R
Private
0
Rep
70
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3 ALPINE WHITE
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Miami, FL

iTrader: (0)

Thumbs down Same here. So disappointed on BMW

The same just happened to me. Im glad this thread is here so BMW service cant act like this only happened to me. I have a babied 47k miles 2008 bmw m3 and this just happened. they are asking me to pay 26K +++ for a new engine. I will be showing this to my lawyer and work on getting them to cover it. I complained of engine noise so many times throughout the 4 years of warranty and they always came back with no problems with the car. i even had them do a final service before the warranty and yet again no one picked up anything supposedly. Its messed up between myself and my family we have owned over a dozen bmw's and they better make it right.

I'll post it with a video tomorrow and ad it to here for others who get told they need to pay 26k to get their car back after spending a lot on this car and taking care of it like a baby for the last 4 years. No engine mods, never raced, only put 4k miles in the last 12 months.

As soon as warranty expires. 2k miles later then engine blows for no reason.
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2013, 09:53 PM   #174
M3NST3R
Private
0
Rep
70
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3 ALPINE WHITE
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Miami, FL

iTrader: (0)

Same here. So disappointed on BMW

The same just happened to me. Im glad this thread is here so BMW service cant act like this only happened to me. I have a babied 47k miles 2008 bmw m3 and this just happened. they are asking me to pay 26K +++ for a new engine. I will be showing this to my lawyer and work on getting them to cover it. I complained of engine noise so many times throughout the 4 years of warranty and they always came back with no problems with the car. i even had them do a final service before the warranty and yet again no one picked up anything supposedly. Its messed up between myself and my family we have owned over a dozen bmw's and they better make it right.

I'll post it with a video tomorrow and ad it to here for others who get told they need to pay 26k to get their car back after spending a lot on this car and taking care of it like a baby for the last 4 years. No engine mods, never raced, only put 4k miles in the last 12 months.

As soon as warranty expires. 2k miles later then engine blows for no reason.
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2013, 09:58 PM   #175
VCMpower
Banned
Canada
9
Rep
941
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 Dakar, 2013 Fire Orange
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Victoria B.C.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3NST3R
The same just happened to me. Im glad this thread is here so BMW service cant act like this only happened to me. I have a babied 47k miles 2008 bmw m3 and this just happened. they are asking me to pay 26K +++ for a new engine. I will be showing this to my lawyer and work on getting them to cover it. I complained of engine noise so many times throughout the 4 years of warranty and they always came back with no problems with the car. i even had them do a final service before the warranty and yet again no one picked up anything supposedly. Its messed up between myself and my family we have owned over a dozen bmw's and they better make it right.

I'll post it with a video tomorrow and ad it to here for others who get told they need to pay 26k to get their car back after spending a lot on this car and taking care of it like a baby for the last 4 years. No engine mods, never raced, only put 4k miles in the last 12 months.

As soon as warranty expires. 2k miles later then engine blows for no reason.
What was the severity of failure? Noises , or did motor lock up?
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2013, 01:48 PM   #176
mkPOTO
Mr. Nice Says Hello
mkPOTO's Avatar
200
Rep
15,637
Posts

 
Drives: 1999 528I
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: USA

iTrader: (23)

Garage List
I have been through this thread and was wondering if someone could link to which video sounds like the bearings are going out? Some of the videos posted sound like normal, but I want to be certain. Heard some noise this morning and nervous it could be the problem
__________________

EVOLVE E600 BMW E92 M3
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:02 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST