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      06-04-2014, 04:30 AM   #1
bde
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F80 dry sump an answer to the E90 rod bearing failures?

Since this came to replace the E90 wet sump does
it mean we won't see any rod bearing issues from now on?

Opinions?
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      06-04-2014, 08:00 AM   #2
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      06-04-2014, 08:45 AM   #3
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      06-04-2014, 09:54 AM   #4
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The entire engine and bearing design is so drastically different with low revs that its not the dry sump that will "fix" the issue but overall design
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      06-04-2014, 10:30 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bde View Post
Since this came to replace the E90 wet sump does
it mean we won't see any rod bearing issues from now on?

Opinions?
If you're interested in a dry sump for E9x S65 engine, PM me and I will put you in contact with my engine builder. He's finished the design of a dry sump that should be much more affordable than the unit currently on the market. And you can keep your AC if you want! Only one more minor detail to finish before it's done.
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      06-04-2014, 10:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coloradoe92m3 View Post
The entire engine and bearing design is so drastically different with low revs that its not the dry sump that will "fix" the issue but overall design
Yeah it's a diesel-like engine. 7600 RPM is very low
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      06-04-2014, 10:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bde View Post
Since this came to replace the E90 wet sump does
it mean we won't see any rod bearing issues from now on?

Opinions?
Be more specific about the bearing issues. If by issues you mean the threads that pop up here and there, i should say that the same thing does in M5board. The difference is the S85 comes with dry sump lubrication from factory so DS may not solve the bearing issues.
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      06-04-2014, 01:14 PM   #8
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Dry sump has very little to do with rod bearing failures...tolerances do and maintaining oil pressure whether at idle or 1.5G lateral load won't change that.
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      06-04-2014, 02:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
If you're interested in a dry sump for E9x S65 engine, PM me and I will put you in contact with my engine builder. He's finished the design of a dry sump that should be much more affordable than the unit currently on the market. And you can keep your AC if you want! Only one more minor detail to finish before it's done.
Interesting. I'm a long ways from even worrying about a dry sump, but the car nerd in me still wants to hear more about this. The Turner kit is definitely out of the question.
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      06-04-2014, 03:27 PM   #10
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Correct me if i'm wrong but the only dry-sump in the F8X is the oiling system for the transmission.

Nothing implies a dry-sump system for the S55 motor. I would reckon the oiling system be similar to the S54 & S65 "quasi-dry sump" (i.e., a conventional wet sump with multiple sumps).
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Last edited by Law; 06-04-2014 at 03:33 PM.
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      06-04-2014, 04:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
Interesting. I'm a long ways from even worrying about a dry sump, but the car nerd in me still wants to hear more about this. The Turner kit is definitely out of the question.
Design features:
  • Cast aluminum pan design
  • CnC machined
  • Keeps AC pump
  • Can remove AC pump and lower engine for lower center of gravity
  • Adjustable oil pressure target
  • COG belt driven on third rail
  • Works with and without superchargers
  • Four suction stages plus one pump stage (5-stage pump)
  • Supercharger/turbocharger oil return plumbed directly into pan
  • Approximately $2k lower than existing dry sump designs (Turner/VAC units designed by Daley Engineering)

You would need to contact my engine builder for more details. Those are the ones I remember.
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      06-04-2014, 04:43 PM   #12
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Sounds cool^.

Heres the oil system on the s55, not a dry sump?
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      06-04-2014, 08:01 PM   #13
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@ibmike

Seems like the familiar "quasi-dry sump" system to me, albeit with a magnesium oil sump instead of conventional materials construction.

Quote:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...55&postcount=1

The magnesium oil sump is extra-light, while double-flow recirculation pumps are designed to ensure lubrication of the engine and the turbochargers even on the racetrack.
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BMW PRESS RELEASE:
The low-weight magnesium oil sump, for example, features a special cover to limit movement of the oil under the effects of strong dynamic lateral acceleration. Under extreme longitudinal acceleration and deceleration, an oil extraction pump and a sophisticated oil return system situated close to the turbocharger likewise help to maintain uninterrupted oil circulation. Oil is therefore supplied continuously to all engine components in all driving situations whether in everyday motoring or during hard driving on the track.
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      06-04-2014, 10:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
@ibmike

Seems like the familiar "quasi-dry sump" system to me, albeit with a magnesium oil sump instead of conventional materials construction.
Call me a simpleton but if the sump holds oil, I'd still call it a wet sump.
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      06-04-2014, 10:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
Call me a simpleton but if the sump holds oil, I'd still call it a wet sump.
No disagreement here, hence the quotes.
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      06-05-2014, 01:20 AM   #16
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Here's some teaser pictures. The pump in the photos is a mock up that were taken before the real pump arrived. It shows relative placement. The real pump has arrived and is a five-stage pump as mentioned earlier. As soon as the pulley assembly arrives, I should be able to show some pictures of the pump mounted and pulley assembly installed. There's a few other minor details. But that's about all there is left to finish.













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      06-05-2014, 01:26 PM   #17
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looks good! what would be the benefit of a dry sump system? I know the S65 has a wet sump, but it seems like a very good wet sump system that doesn't lead to oil starvation even during hard driving on a track.

And where would the oil go? The engine bay is quite cramped as it is and there isn't much room for a big oil tank
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      06-05-2014, 01:30 PM   #18
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      06-05-2014, 01:36 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Petros View Post
looks good! what would be the benefit of a dry sump system? I know the S65 has a wet sump, but it seems like a very good wet sump system that doesn't lead to oil starvation even during hard driving on a track.
The current design does still lead to oil starvation. VAC and others have designed windage trays to mitigate the problem. One guy in our area who tracked his car had two engines damaged while tracking: one suffered main bearing damage, and the other oil starved during hard cornering and somehow spewed all kinds of oil back through the intake system (no idea how that happened). When the engine was eventually disassembled, six rings were broken. Honestly not sure if there's a connection with the broken rings and the track event -- but mentioning it for completeness.

Quote:
And where would the oil go? The engine bay is quite cramped as it is and there isn't much room for a big oil tank
I honestly don't know because I haven't looked into it yet. I know VAC and Turner sell the Daley dry sump kit. So they must be putting it somewhere. It doesn't need to be in the engine bay.
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      06-05-2014, 02:34 PM   #20
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Who makes the LT headers...
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      06-05-2014, 03:33 PM   #21
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Who makes the LT headers...
Yeah those look yummy. I'd guess they are Robert's Racing Dynamics headers.
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      06-05-2014, 03:52 PM   #22
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Yeah those look yummy. I'd guess they are Robert's Racing Dynamics headers.
Yep.
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