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      07-29-2013, 11:54 AM   #1
BDO
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Z4MR to E90 M3

A worthy upgrade or a big mistake?
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      07-29-2013, 11:55 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDO View Post
A worthy upgrade or a big mistake?
Completely different cars. If you need more room, absolutely great upgrade. If you want an intimate driving experience, then obviously stick to your Z4M.

Pictures of the car??
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      07-29-2013, 11:55 AM   #3
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As any M3 owner would tell you: do it
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      07-29-2013, 12:04 PM   #4
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As one that came from the Z4MC, and had to leave for specific reasons, the M3 is no mistake.
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      07-29-2013, 12:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
As one that came from the Z4MC, and had to leave for specific reasons, the M3 is no mistake.
What were your reasons?

"Mistake" is a wrong choice of words on my part. I meant to say "will I miss the rawness, the drama, and the unadulterated porn that is the Z4MR"?

Damn, hardest decision I had to make in a long time.
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      07-29-2013, 12:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDO View Post
A worthy upgrade or a big mistake?
That answer depends on what you are looking for.

If you are looking for the same hard-core neck-breaking experience, you will be disappointed. However, if you want a more relaxed and comfortable, yet quintessential BMW, with a deep V8 exhaust note, then you'll be happy with the "upgrade".
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      07-29-2013, 01:23 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by enigma01 View Post
That answer depends on what you are looking for.

If you are looking for the same hard-core neck-breaking experience, you will be disappointed. However, if you want a more relaxed and comfortable, yet quintessential BMW, with a deep V8 exhaust note, then you'll be happy with the "upgrade".
To be quite honest, I don't even know what I'm looking for. I have a choice of two other DDs, one SUV and one sedan, so space is definitely not it.

I've had the Z4MR for over a year, love it but my butt is itching for a V8. I am afraid I'll miss the droptop and the sheer brutality of the Z4M package, yet can't stop thinking about the E90 M3.

Bah. Stupid cars.
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      07-29-2013, 01:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDO View Post
To be quite honest, I don't even know what I'm looking for. I have a choice of two other DDs, one SUV and one sedan, so space is definitely not it.

I've had the Z4MR for over a year, love it but my butt is itching for a V8. I am afraid I'll miss the droptop and the sheer brutality of the Z4M package, yet can't stop thinking about the E90 M3.

Bah. Stupid cars.
Drop the S65 in your Z4M?

My suggestion is to stick with the rare Z4M. Nothing else since that generation comes close to sheer lunacy.
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      07-29-2013, 01:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDO View Post
What were your reasons?

"Mistake" is a wrong choice of words on my part. I meant to say "will I miss the rawness, the drama, and the unadulterated porn that is the Z4MR"?

Damn, hardest decision I had to make in a long time.
With my parents aging and their health getting worse, I had a need for a back seat. There is a rawness lacking compared to the Z4, but it's so refined and balanced; after a week you'll feel as good driving the M3 as the Z4, and you'll get a usable trunk and back seat in addition. One thing the Z4M had done poorly was the transmission, in the M3, it's really sublime as is the stock suspension compared to the stock Z4M.
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      07-29-2013, 01:40 PM   #10
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I went from an '08 Z4MC to an '08 E90M, and now an '11 E92. I miss the Z4M at times, mainly due to its relative rarity and "unique" driving experience. It was harder to drive fast and had tons of character (some good, some bad) and was a total head-turner.

Overall I feel the E9X M3 is superior as a jack-of-all-trades car, but make sure you want to go from a pure, hard-edged sports car to a really fast and heavier GT.
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      07-29-2013, 01:42 PM   #11
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One thing the Z4M had done poorly was the transmission, in the M3, it's really sublime as is the stock suspension compared to the stock Z4M.
Yes, I forgot to mention that part. At best, the shifter was difficult to negotiate, especially 1-2 and 3-2 shifts. One of the compromises BMW had to make.
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      07-29-2013, 02:16 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by 8_is_enough View Post
Yes, I forgot to mention that part. At best, the shifter was difficult to negotiate, especially 1-2 and 3-2 shifts. One of the compromises BMW had to make.
Yes you're right, they couldn't fit the Getrag unit in the small chassis. The suspension was a hacked up E30/36 in the front and E46 in the rear, and had the shortcomings of it as well, RTAB early failure/wear, and overall lack of aftermarket anything aside from shock/strut packages.

Things missed from the Z4:
  • the incredibly stiff chassis: 32,000Nm/degree ... the thing just can't creak, really well done.
  • valve adjustments: I really like doing my own, and although not needed on the S65, I miss the down and dirtiness of the S54
  • steering wheel: fat fat fat, really soft nappa leather
  • washing: it's so damn small, washing/polishing was done quick!
  • no passenger: being selfish and saying: "no, I can't drive"
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      07-29-2013, 03:00 PM   #13
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I came from a Z4MR as well.

What i remember most is that car is just so unforgiving at times. If i was in the mood i loved it but at other times it was just a pain to drive. The steering, clutch, shift, brakes, suspension all feel softer and easier to operate in the M3. There is so much space and way more creature comforts. But sometimes when i just want to go for it i miss that rawness of the Z4M. Its a love/hate relationship.
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      07-29-2013, 04:13 PM   #14
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I came from a Z4M convert. I like my M3 but I do miss my old car.

My opinion:

Z4M Positives over the M3 (puts on flame suit):
- Simply can't hide that the Z4M is much smaller and lighter
- I liked the shifting 'logistics' on the Z4M more. The clutch takeup was slightly lower if I recall correctly and the seating position was better suited for me to comfortably reach the shifter / depress the clutch
- Probably due to above, I had a much easier time matching revs on the Z than on the M3 where I almost consistently mess it up
- The M3 does not 'feel' much faster than the Z4 in spirited everyday driving. (4k-6k RPMs). Possibly because the torque difference is not immense
- Never asked to be a DD given the two seats
- Biggest positive: The depreciation curve on Z4Ms is very flat based on my research. They are becoming rare versus the M3. OP i'd really think about this.

M3 positives -- in a nutshell a much better daily driver:
+ Really turns into a different animal above 6k RPMs
+ Glorious engine sound (or is it induction noise?) stock
+ At high revs (6k+) the 1-2 shift is easier than the Z4M, echoing other members' comments
+ No valve adjustments!
+ Ride is softer without any compromise in handling
+ Infotainment / creature comforts much better
+ Gets about the same mileage and can carry 2 more people and more luggage (if anyone cares)
+ Visibility is better
+ Higher front nose = less scraping
+ A much bigger car potentially means less likely to be injured in a crash!


Full disclosure:
- Only had my m3 for two months / ~ 1.5K miles, whereas I put on thousands of miles on the Z
- The Z4M was the first performance car I owned (unless you count my Ford Escort wagon), though I've driven quite a few
- Re the seating position comment: I'm oddly shaped


All in all, if I had to choose one car it'd be the M3, but if I had space for two cars I'd pick the M roadster (while I save up for a mint Jaguar E-type...) and a comfortable daily driver. That said, I can only justify one car at the moment, which is why I ended up with the M3. Good luck!
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      07-29-2013, 05:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDO View Post
A worthy upgrade or a big mistake?
Good question.

I am one of the folks that had a modified Z4MC and switched to the E92 M3 platform. For the first 6 months I regretted it because, quite frankly the E92 M3 in stock form (for me and my tastes) looked like shit. Plain and simple. Still does IMO.
I was so upset over the decision I made and actually tried to get back into the Z4MC for a week. What I realized with the M3 is it took time and my back problems went away. I was running coilovers in both M cars and had them both lowered.

Now fast forward a couple years. The E92 M3 platform has grown on me and you also cant get past the interior and fat seats VS the thin Z4MC seats.

To me both cars are equal in every aspect. I don't care what non-owners think. They won't know.

The Z4MC was just more raw and you felt the road as the M3 is more plush and luxury feeling sedan, which it is.

If I had to do it all over again I would have kept the Z4MC and M3, but I needed a snow duty vehicle and the X5 it was and out went the Z4MC. Oh and I have a CPO M3 so that is always nice!
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      07-29-2013, 06:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwaggen View Post
- Simply can't hide that the Z4M is much smaller and lighter
- I liked the shifting 'logistics' on the Z4M more. The clutch takeup was slightly lower if I recall correctly and the seating position was better suited for me to comfortably reach the shifter / depress the clutch
I agree with these two. Getting into the M3, you can't help but notice how much bigger and heavier it feels (relatively speaking). But, to be fair, the Z4M also requires a lot of concentration to drive hard (or you will end up sideways).

As for shifting, the Z4M is more "traditional" BMW in terms of the engagement point. The M3 (especially after the clutch revision) has the clutch engagement point way too high, but you get used to it pretty fast.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jwaggen View Post
- The M3 does not 'feel' much faster than the Z4 in spirited everyday driving. (4k-6k RPMs). Possibly because the torque difference is not immense
I am a little surprised to hear that you feel the torque difference isn't much. The Z4M required a lot more concentration partly because I always had to be in the right gear to be responsive. I feel the M3 is a lot more forgiving because it has much more torque in lower RPMs.
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      07-29-2013, 08:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma01 View Post
That answer depends on what you are looking for.

If you are looking for the same hard-core neck-breaking experience, you will be disappointed. However, if you want a more relaxed and comfortable, yet quintessential BMW, with a deep V8 exhaust note, then you'll be happy with the "upgrade".
No offense but you have a 4100 pound vert. Hardly the guy to compare. The 3550 pound coupe will throw you back in a way the s54 engine cars never did. Put a catless or HFC system and it sounds as raw as a csl. Engine noise is insane. Hardly a comfy cruiser only although it can be.
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      07-29-2013, 09:36 PM   #18
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There is so much space and way more creature comforts.
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      07-29-2013, 09:51 PM   #19
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E90 FTW!!!! Totally different cars though, all depends on what your in the mood for.
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      07-29-2013, 09:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwaggen View Post
I came from a Z4M convert. I like my M3 but I do miss my old car.

My opinion:

Z4M Positives over the M3 (puts on flame suit):
- Simply can't hide that the Z4M is much smaller and lighter
- I liked the shifting 'logistics' on the Z4M more. The clutch takeup was slightly lower if I recall correctly and the seating position was better suited for me to comfortably reach the shifter / depress the clutch
- Probably due to above, I had a much easier time matching revs on the Z than on the M3 where I almost consistently mess it up
- The M3 does not 'feel' much faster than the Z4 in spirited everyday driving. (4k-6k RPMs). Possibly because the torque difference is not immense
- Never asked to be a DD given the two seats
- Biggest positive: The depreciation curve on Z4Ms is very flat based on my research. They are becoming rare versus the M3. OP i'd really think about this.

M3 positives -- in a nutshell a much better daily driver:
+ Really turns into a different animal above 6k RPMs
+ Glorious engine sound (or is it induction noise?) stock
+ At high revs (6k+) the 1-2 shift is easier than the Z4M, echoing other members' comments
+ No valve adjustments!
+ Ride is softer without any compromise in handling
+ Infotainment / creature comforts much better
+ Gets about the same mileage and can carry 2 more people and more luggage (if anyone cares)
+ Visibility is better
+ Higher front nose = less scraping
+ A much bigger car potentially means less likely to be injured in a crash!


Full disclosure:
- Only had my m3 for two months / ~ 1.5K miles, whereas I put on thousands of miles on the Z
- The Z4M was the first performance car I owned (unless you count my Ford Escort wagon), though I've driven quite a few
- Re the seating position comment: I'm oddly shaped


All in all, if I had to choose one car it'd be the M3, but if I had space for two cars I'd pick the M roadster (while I save up for a mint Jaguar E-type...) and a comfortable daily driver. That said, I can only justify one car at the moment, which is why I ended up with the M3. Good luck!
+1, really, is there a way to own both cars?!
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      07-29-2013, 11:37 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma01 View Post
I am a little surprised to hear that you feel the torque difference isn't much. The Z4M required a lot more concentration partly because I always had to be in the right gear to be responsive. I feel the M3 is a lot more forgiving because it has much more torque in lower RPMs.
Im not sure how the torque curve compares but the m3 has some more torque and more than some more weight, yes? It could also be gearing. Or the two year hiatus in between my ownership if each car
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      07-30-2013, 03:24 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longwong View Post
No offense but you have a 4100 pound vert. Hardly the guy to compare. The 3550 pound coupe will throw you back in a way the s54 engine cars never did. Put a catless or HFC system and it sounds as raw as a csl. Engine noise is insane. Hardly a comfy cruiser only although it can be.
Excuse me?! Get off your high horse, would you?

First off, the vert was more entertaining than you think. The Z4MC is roughly 400 lbs lighter than your e92 M3. So, you are hardly the guy compare, no?

Secondly, I now have a 2013 e92 M3 ZCP. I have to spell it out for you since you can't read for yourself. So, I have a very good frame of reference having both the e92 M3 and the e86 Z4MC.

Lastly... what?! Catless feels like a CSL? What the hell are you smoking? May be it sounds like one, but it certainly doesn't drive like one.

Last edited by enigma01; 07-30-2013 at 03:35 AM.
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