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      12-29-2012, 05:40 PM   #1
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ZCP Suspension for Track Use - Question

Assuming you've driven one on the track, do you think the ZCP equipped cars handle well enough for several track days a year? If not, what in your opinion must be changed or if you didn't change certain aspects, why?

My initial thought is the ZCP suspension and its characteristics were built in-part to be used on the track, so upgrading shouldn't be necessary to a certain extent. I understand that camber plates should be added to improve tire wear, and something I might consider down the road.

Thanks for your thoughts in advance!
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      12-29-2012, 06:03 PM   #2
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I moved from an 08 without ZCP to a 11 with ZCP and the difference between the 2 is night & day.My 11 is a lot flatter & more responsive on track with still having very livable everyday street manners.I have run my car with stock alignment settings and experienced much better tire wear than I did with my 08 thanks to less body roll.I ran a square 18 x 10 275/35 NT05 setup and the ZCP car is much more neutral than the 08 car which oversteered a lot more and got more upset when using a lot of curb.I average about 20 track days a year and run in the instructors/advanced group.
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      12-29-2012, 06:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I moved from an 08 without ZCP to a 11 with ZCP and the difference between the 2 is night & day.My 11 is a lot flatter & more responsive on track with still having very livable everyday street manners.I have run my car with stock alignment settings and experienced much better tire wear than I did with my 08 thanks to less body roll.I ran a square 18 x 10 275/35 NT05 setup and the ZCP car is much more neutral than the 08 car which oversteered a lot more and got more upset when using a lot of curb.I average about 20 track days a year and run in the instructors/advanced group.
That's interesting. Did your 08 have EDC?
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      12-29-2012, 06:06 PM   #4
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That's interesting. Did your 08 have EDC?
Yes
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      12-29-2012, 06:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I moved from an 08 without ZCP to a 11 with ZCP and the difference between the 2 is night & day.My 11 is a lot flatter & more responsive on track with still having very livable everyday street manners.I have run my car with stock alignment settings and experienced much better tire wear than I did with my 08 thanks to less body roll.I ran a square 18 x 10 275/35 NT05 setup and the ZCP car is much more neutral than the 08 car which oversteered a lot more and got more upset when using a lot of curb.I average about 20 track days a year and run in the instructors/advanced group.
Thanks Gear, this makes me believe to stick with ZCP stock for the duration. I plan to do 20 days this year as well. I did about that last year, but I had another older M (non-ZCP) and upgraded the springs. That's a bit of good news on the tire wear not being that bad either, but then again you're an instructor, so your driving does help it a lot
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      12-29-2012, 06:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
That's interesting. Did your 08 have EDC?
I didn't think lowering it half an inch and slightly stiffer damping would do much. I haven't driven a ZCP, but just thinking through it I don't see how it could make a significant difference.

I've seen reviews from people that have tracked both and found the difference to be negligible. Not saying you're wrong (it is an opinion after all), just saying that thinking ZCP makes much difference on track is an unusual opinion to hold.

OP: Definitely will be 'good enough.' I like coilovers much better than stock, but even non-ZCP stock is pretty damn good for a stock car. If you were happy with an older M with stock dampers you'll love the E9X.

My tire wear has been terrible stock and with coilovers and 2.5 camber.
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      12-29-2012, 06:35 PM   #7
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I didn't think lowering it half an inch and slightly stiffer damping would do much. I haven't driven a ZCP, but just thinking through it I don't see how it could make a significant difference.

I've seen reviews from people that have tracked both and found the difference to be negligible. Not saying you're wrong (it is an opinion after all), just saying that thinking ZCP makes much difference on track is an unusual opinion to hold.

OP: Definitely will be 'good enough.' I like coilovers much better than stock, but even non-ZCP stock is pretty damn good for a stock car. If you were happy with an older M with stock dampers you'll love the E9X.

My tire wear has been terrible stock and with coilovers and 2.5 camber.
On the stock street tires the ZCP does not feel that different than the base suspension.With a proper square setup the ZCP feels a lot different thanks to dialing out the turn in understeer than the ZCP has.

These are my left side tires after 2 days at WGI with the outside being to the right side of the picture.More wear on the inside with a stock alignment.

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      12-29-2012, 06:40 PM   #8
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Right side tires.Much more worn on the inside

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      12-29-2012, 07:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
I didn't think lowering it half an inch and slightly stiffer damping would do much. I haven't driven a ZCP, but just thinking through it I don't see how it could make a significant difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
On the stock street tires the ZCP does not feel that different than the base suspension.With a proper square setup the ZCP feels a lot different thanks to dialing out the turn in understeer than the ZCP has.
I think I read somewhere the ZCP springs have different spring rates (stiffer) and aren't simply just lower by .5 inches, contributing to improved cornering behavior. I do know from my old non-ZCP M and this car ZCP car, the Sport EDC is substantially stiffer off the cuff. Feels extremely neutral coming off an off-ramp at relatively high speed (track of course is different).

Thanks for the thoughts though, looking forward to seeing the ZCP suspension in action this March.

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      12-29-2012, 07:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class-of-2013 View Post
I think I read somewhere the ZCP springs have different spring rates (stiffer) and aren't simply just lower by .5 inches, contributing to improved cornering behavior. I do know from my old non-ZCP M and this car ZCP car, the Sport EDC is substantially stiffer off the cuff. Feels extremely neutral coming off an off-ramp at relatively high speed (track of course if different).

Thanks for the thoughts though, looking forward to seeing the ZCP suspension in action this March.
One other advantage of the ZCP dampers is the damping is not fixed in Sport mode whereas on non-ZCP dampers the damping is fixed in Sport mode - allows the ZCP suspension to absorb bumps even in Sport mode which is a nice advantage to have especially on a bumpy track!
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      12-29-2012, 07:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
On the stock street tires the ZCP does not feel that different than the base suspension.With a proper square setup the ZCP feels a lot different thanks to dialing out the turn in understeer than the ZCP has.

These are my left side tires after 2 days at WGI with the outside being to the right side of the picture.More wear on the inside with a stock alignment.
Did you run the same square setup on your '08?
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      12-29-2012, 08:17 PM   #12
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Did you run the same square setup on your '08?
Yes

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      12-29-2012, 10:47 PM   #13
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I have the non-EDC with dinan stage 2, GC plates and square 275s. The BIGGEST shortcoming are the rear dampers. I can tell its on the bump stops on just about every corner exit. I'm feathering the throttled til the car is about straight and then I can give it gas. EDC cars don't seem to have this issue. I drove a stock ZCP car and it was better at putting the power down.

I think the ZCP has stiffer rear springs and stiffer damper settings which helps to mask the problem.
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      12-29-2012, 11:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I have the non-EDC with dinan stage 2, GC plates and square 275s. The BIGGEST shortcoming are the rear dampers. I can tell its on the bump stops on just about every corner exit. I'm feathering the throttled til the car is about straight and then I can give it gas. EDC cars don't seem to have this issue. I drove a stock ZCP car and it was better at putting the power down.

I think the ZCP has stiffer rear springs and stiffer damper settings which helps to mask the problem.
Now that you mention it my ZCP is much better at putting the power down on corner exit.I forgot how much better till you mentioned it but I am old and my non ZCP car was 2 full seasons ago
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      12-30-2012, 07:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I have the non-EDC with dinan stage 2, GC plates and square 275s. The BIGGEST shortcoming are the rear dampers. I can tell its on the bump stops on just about every corner exit. I'm feathering the throttled til the car is about straight and then I can give it gas. EDC cars don't seem to have this issue. I drove a stock ZCP car and it was better at putting the power down.

I think the ZCP has stiffer rear springs and stiffer damper settings which helps to mask the problem.
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Now that you mention it my ZCP is much better at putting the power down on corner exit.I forgot how much better till you mentioned it but I am old and my non ZCP car was 2 full seasons ago
True on the stiff springs and EDC (Sport) for ZCP is now dynamic vs. just a static setting. Meaning, EDC Sport setting will adjust based on variable loads during driving. This was only true before for Comfort and Normal.

Thanks for all the back and forth feedback, it totally works out in my head this ZCP car will be fun on the track as-is.
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      12-30-2012, 08:09 AM   #16
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The stock suspension is plenty good on the track. I track mine on stock non-EDC dampers with just springs, camber plates and a good alignment. It's excellent.
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      12-30-2012, 10:48 AM   #17
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The stock suspension is plenty good on the track. I track mine on stock non-EDC dampers with just springs, camber plates and a good alignment. It's excellent.
What kind of tires? I've used Conti scrubs, RS3s and Z1* and all just didn't work very well. I'm on NT01s now and I think it will be awesome. The only weekend I used them it was wet and got 1 dry session. I could tell that the rear end had a lot more grip.
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      12-30-2012, 01:51 PM   #18
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What kind of tires? I've used Conti scrubs, RS3s and Z1* and all just didn't work very well. I'm on NT01s now and I think it will be awesome. The only weekend I used them it was wet and got 1 dry session. I could tell that the rear end had a lot more grip.
Meaning you think the NT01s feel better or give you more grip than Continental scrubs?
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      12-30-2012, 03:28 PM   #19
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Meaning you think the NT01s feel better or give you more grip than Continental scrubs?
More grip. The scrubs I got were garbage. Its so hit and miss and then they don't last as long. So you do save on the tires but spend more time and money mounting and demounting.
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      12-30-2012, 10:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class-of-2013 View Post
I think I read somewhere the ZCP springs have different spring rates (stiffer) and aren't simply just lower by .5 inches, contributing to improved cornering behavior. I do know from my old non-ZCP M and this car ZCP car, the Sport EDC is substantially stiffer off the cuff. Feels extremely neutral coming off an off-ramp at relatively high speed (track of course is different).

Thanks for the thoughts though, looking forward to seeing the ZCP suspension in action this March.
I've got an 08 EDC and have never driven a ZCP so can't compare.

But I understood the ZCP springs to be 12mm lower but NOT have a stiffer spring rate. Also, the dampers themselves are NOT any stiffer but ARE progressive in Sport mode, while non-ZCP like mine is linear, and progressive only in Normal and Comfort.

Generally speaking, there will always be a setup that is better than what one is driving now. I say, learn to drive well from good instructors, move up in the run-groups, and drive the snot out of whatever setup you got. OP, enjoy the ZCP for good while, should be fun!
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      12-30-2012, 10:54 PM   #21
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I've got an 08 EDC and have never driven a ZCP so can't compare.

But I understood the ZCP springs to be 12mm lower but NOT have a stiffer spring rate. Also, the dampers themselves are NOT any stiffer but ARE progressive in Sport mode, while non-ZCP like mine is linear, and progressive only in Normal and Comfort.

Generally speaking, there will always be a setup that is better than what one is driving now. I say, learn to drive well from good instructors, move up in the run-groups, and drive the snot out of whatever setup you got. OP, enjoy the ZCP for good while, should be fun!
Thanks! Looking forward to driving the ZCP set-up. I'm actually in the advanced / black run group as of this season and very comfortable with extended passing. I didn't cross over to getting a true track car yet. This car won't be, so I'll probably run intermediate so she doesn't get too beat up.
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      01-01-2013, 06:47 PM   #22
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Does anyone know what the general track time discrepancy is for the ZCP vs. non-ZCP cars?
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