PFC 08 Chunked

warp10 · 12-28-2012, 11:26 AM

So switched back to my stock pads as it is cold and wont be at the track for some time. So the tech got to the front pads and brought me one of the front pads and this was what I saw. I have contacted PFC, but they are closed till the 2nd. Suggestions on the soultion? I am thinking that a new set of pads in store. these only have two days on them.

Porschefile · 12-28-2012, 11:28 AM

I had a set of 01's do that and they still worked fine. Maybe a bit more vibration, but I still ran them and they worked fine.

bigjae1976 · 12-28-2012, 12:56 PM

The pads will work but they look beat up from 2 days of use. How thick are they?

I'm convinced that the OEM brakes just can't handle the heat. My data is based on vaporizing a set of PF01s in 4 days of DEs running on Hankook RS3s. Its not like I had a sticky R-Comp.

Porschefile · 12-28-2012, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I'm convinced that the OEM brakes just can't handle the heat. My data is based on vaporizing a set of PF01s in 4 days of DEs running on Hankook RS3s. Its not like I had a sticky R-Comp.

That's a fact man. I had 2.5" ducting to my OEM's and still cooked pads pretty quick even on PS2's. ST60's fixed me.

smmmurf · 12-28-2012, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porschefile

That's a fact man. I had 2.5" ducting to my OEM's and still cooked pads pretty quick even on PS2's. ST60's fixed me.

Wow, so it's not just me. I thought that by sticking to stock tires my brakes wouldn't get too hot and cooked my front pads into my rotors with heavy deposits that wouldn't go away (dealer just replaced them). Guess I can't track the car unless I get some better pads.

M3SQRD · 12-28-2012, 02:46 PM

Surprised to see that happen to a PFC pad. I agree, it has to be the stock braking system because I've been using PFC pads (01, 03 and 05 compounds) in BBKs (AP and PFC) for quite a while now without a single issue. However, I have no experience with the 08 compound.

bigjae1976 · 12-28-2012, 11:12 PM

I now think track pads are a total band aid approach. You can upgrade to track pads, ss lines, and better brake fluid. Those components in themselves have more capability than their OEM parts. The problem is those parts now allow you to exceed the capabilities of the other parts, calipers and rotors. So you put even more heat into those parts that weren't designed for that much heat. So you see accelerated pad wear and poor braking performance.

warp10 · 12-28-2012, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

The pads will work but they look beat up from 2 days of use. How thick are they?

I'm convinced that the OEM brakes just can't handle the heat. My data is based on vaporizing a set of PF01s in 4 days of DEs running on Hankook RS3s. Its not like I had a sticky R-Comp.

the pads still have a lot of life left at least 85%.

paradocs98 · 12-29-2012, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I now think track pads are a total band aid approach. You can upgrade to track pads, ss lines, and better brake fluid. Those components in themselves have more capability than their OEM parts. The problem is those parts now allow you to exceed the capabilities of the other parts, calipers and rotors. So you put even more heat into those parts that weren't designed for that much heat. So you see accelerated pad wear and poor braking performance.

Probably very true.

Zzhou · 12-29-2012, 03:39 AM

I am running on PFC08 too. And its fine after two track days

Porschefile · 12-29-2012, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I now think track pads are a total band aid approach. You can upgrade to track pads, ss lines, and better brake fluid. Those components in themselves have more capability than their OEM parts. The problem is those parts now allow you to exceed the capabilities of the other parts, calipers and rotors. So you put even more heat into those parts that weren't designed for that much heat. So you see accelerated pad wear and poor braking performance.

Exactly. bbk isn't an absolute necessity, but the stock system sucks on track. The rotors are inefficient, the calipers are floating and cause vibration etc. I've never had PFC's chunk on any other car.

edwinm3 · 01-01-2013, 01:11 PM

Those pads are messed up, brakes is something you wanna make sure you have when you need it, I would not use those pads in those conditions.

M3PO · 01-02-2013, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I now think track pads are a total band aid approach. You can upgrade to track pads, ss lines, and better brake fluid. Those components in themselves have more capability than their OEM parts. The problem is those parts now allow you to exceed the capabilities of the other parts, calipers and rotors. So you put even more heat into those parts that weren't designed for that much heat. So you see accelerated pad wear and poor braking performance.

Agreed, and I've only been to the track once. I can already tell. I ran Project Mu Club Racer pads and SRF fluid and everything felt great until I started to get vibration from the rotors overheating. A couple laps going easy on the brakes and it was greatly reduced.

warp10 · 01-04-2013, 11:05 AM

Have contacted PFC and seem responsive to fixing the problem. Will report back when they respond.

Car54 · 01-04-2013, 01:36 PM

I've seen this on some Hawk HT-10's but not PFC's.

jml · 01-06-2013, 10:41 PM

I've had something similar happen on my OEM system and DTC70 pads. Somehow the pad got caught on one of the tabs and the caliper, and then flexed the pad causing it to stress the pad material. I'm lazy and didn't catch it initially. When I finally changed the pads, the pad material was not even laminated to the backing plate and the backing plate was warped. Be extra careful with the install.

All in all, it's disappointing that BMW still uses such a crappy design - even if beefed up to handle the duty-cycle for the M3. It works well enough...but it's not an over engineered design.

I run PFC08s on the RS and they seem to hold up to abuse. The RS is about 7 seconds faster around TWS (in my newbie hands) than my M3 and the PFC08s don't even blink an eye.

TXmtrhed · 01-06-2013, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jml

The RS is about 7 seconds faster around TWS (in my newbie hands) than my M3 and the PFC08s don't even blink an eye.

That is so wrong.

I have to catch a ride with you at the track sometime. Going to COTA next weekend?

bigjae1976 · 01-06-2013, 11:14 PM

I'd rather have my brake pads look like that...than my calipers looking like this...

ortho281 · 01-06-2013, 11:22 PM

The PFC-01 and 08's don't use anti-rattle clips. Could it be that using pads without clips on OEM floating calipers may cause rattling and therefore more prone to chunking when hot? I have use the PFC-06's (with anti-rattle clips) for the past 3 months and pads are wearing even with no signs of chunking.

bigjae1976 · 01-06-2013, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ortho281

The PFC-01 and 08's don't use anti-rattle clips. Could it be that using pads without clips on OEM floating calipers may cause rattling and therefore more prone to chunking when hot? I have use the PFC-06's (with anti-rattle clips) for the past 3 months and pads are wearing even with no signs of chunking.

Maybe. I think its the lack of thermal capability in the OE brakes that make this sort of weird stuff to happen. Plus the squirm and twist in the OE calipers.

Car54 · 01-06-2013, 11:52 PM

08's have the clips.

Zzhou · 01-07-2013, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Car54

08's have the clips.

No, the PFC 08 do not have clips.

12-28-2012, 11:26 AM	#1
warp10 Lieutenant Drives: 2011 M3 Jet Black:ZCP, ZCV, ZP Join Date: May 2011 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 419 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 M3 [5.00] 2011 28i X3 [0.00]	PFC 08 Chunked So switched back to my stock pads as it is cold and wont be at the track for some time. So the tech got to the front pads and brought me one of the front pads and this was what I saw. I have contacted PFC, but they are closed till the 2nd. Suggestions on the soultion? I am thinking that a new set of pads in store. these only have two days on them. Attached Images
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12-28-2012, 11:28 AM	#2
Porschefile Major Drives: E92 M3 DCT, E46, Formula Mazda Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,050 iTrader: (5)	I had a set of 01's do that and they still worked fine. Maybe a bit more vibration, but I still ran them and they worked fine. __________________ #18 Formula Mazda, Southeast Division SCCA

12-28-2012, 12:56 PM	#3
bigjae1976 Brigadier General Drives: 04 330Ci, 11 E90 M3 Individual Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 4,047 iTrader: (8)	The pads will work but they look beat up from 2 days of use. How thick are they? I'm convinced that the OEM brakes just can't handle the heat. My data is based on vaporizing a set of PF01s in 4 days of DEs running on Hankook RS3s. Its not like I had a sticky R-Comp. __________________

12-28-2012, 11:12 PM	#7
bigjae1976 Brigadier General Drives: 04 330Ci, 11 E90 M3 Individual Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 4,047 iTrader: (8)	I now think track pads are a total band aid approach. You can upgrade to track pads, ss lines, and better brake fluid. Those components in themselves have more capability than their OEM parts. The problem is those parts now allow you to exceed the capabilities of the other parts, calipers and rotors. So you put even more heat into those parts that weren't designed for that much heat. So you see accelerated pad wear and poor braking performance. __________________

12-29-2012, 03:39 AM	#10
Zzhou Lieutenant Drives: 2012 E92 SSII ZCP DCT Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: West Lafayette,IN/Shanghai,China Posts: 522 iTrader: (0)	I am running on PFC08 too. And its fine after two track days __________________ AA Green Filter/AA Pulley/AA catless X-pipes/AA signature exhaust/AA TUNE/TMS studs/Project Kics R40/AD08/Vorsteiner GTS5 Bumper/LUX H8

12-28-2012, 02:46 PM	#6
M3SQRD Colonel Drives: E92 M3s, R56 Cooper S Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: EC Posts: 2,347 iTrader: (2)	Surprised to see that happen to a PFC pad. I agree, it has to be the stock braking system because I've been using PFC pads (01, 03 and 05 compounds) in BBKs (AP and PFC) for quite a while now without a single issue. However, I have no experience with the 08 compound.

01-01-2013, 01:11 PM	#12
edwinm3 Captain Drives: 2008 JEREZ BLACK M3 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Doral Posts: 762 iTrader: (2)	Those pads are messed up, brakes is something you wanna make sure you have when you need it, I would not use those pads in those conditions. __________________ AA Exhaust, AA X Pipe, AA SSK, AA Geen Air filter, AA Pulley, AA Tune

01-04-2013, 11:05 AM	#14
warp10 Lieutenant Drives: 2011 M3 Jet Black:ZCP, ZCV, ZP Join Date: May 2011 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 419 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 M3 [5.00] 2011 28i X3 [0.00]	Have contacted PFC and seem responsive to fixing the problem. Will report back when they respond.

01-04-2013, 01:36 PM	#15
Car54 Captain Drives: 1999 Z3 Mcoupe \| 2008 M3/4 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Lutz, FL Posts: 825 iTrader: (1)	I've seen this on some Hawk HT-10's but not PFC's. __________________ Craig Brickner BMW CCA/PBOC/Chin Motorsports DE Instructor Click to Join: BMWCCA # 366493

01-06-2013, 10:41 PM	#16
jml Captain Drives: E90M3 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 880 iTrader: (2)	I've had something similar happen on my OEM system and DTC70 pads. Somehow the pad got caught on one of the tabs and the caliper, and then flexed the pad causing it to stress the pad material. I'm lazy and didn't catch it initially. When I finally changed the pads, the pad material was not even laminated to the backing plate and the backing plate was warped. Be extra careful with the install. All in all, it's disappointing that BMW still uses such a crappy design - even if beefed up to handle the duty-cycle for the M3. It works well enough...but it's not an over engineered design. I run PFC08s on the RS and they seem to hold up to abuse. The RS is about 7 seconds faster around TWS (in my newbie hands) than my M3 and the PFC08s don't even blink an eye. __________________ Britax Carseat \| Diaper Kit \| Redneck Cutouts \| Turner Studs \| Bassified Individual Audio

01-06-2013, 11:14 PM	#18
bigjae1976 Brigadier General Drives: 04 330Ci, 11 E90 M3 Individual Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 4,047 iTrader: (8)	I'd rather have my brake pads look like that...than my calipers looking like this... __________________

01-06-2013, 11:22 PM	#19
ortho281 Lieutenant Drives: 2011 E92 M3 6MT Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Katy, TX Posts: 599 iTrader: (0)	The PFC-01 and 08's don't use anti-rattle clips. Could it be that using pads without clips on OEM floating calipers may cause rattling and therefore more prone to chunking when hot? I have use the PFC-06's (with anti-rattle clips) for the past 3 months and pads are wearing even with no signs of chunking. __________________ Akra Evo / MS stage 2 / MS UDP / VF Tune / KW S/O springs / Vorshlag plates / ST 380/355 BBK / ST SR34 pads / Apex Arc-8 / Nitto NT01 / Schroth Rallye 3

01-06-2013, 11:52 PM	#21
Car54 Captain Drives: 1999 Z3 Mcoupe \| 2008 M3/4 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Lutz, FL Posts: 825 iTrader: (1)	08's have the clips. __________________ Craig Brickner BMW CCA/PBOC/Chin Motorsports DE Instructor Click to Join: BMWCCA # 366493

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