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      01-02-2013, 01:45 AM   #89
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Cause it's slow
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      01-02-2013, 08:27 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by krnnerdboy View Post
If they really wanted to keep the "gem" they could've saved a lot of money by just adding direct injection. Exactly what gm is doing with there ls3....
The Vette will get to the intended gas mileage because it is light. The M3 never has a chance in hell to make the intended consumption/emission targets with a N/A engine.
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      01-02-2013, 08:40 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Skullbussa View Post
The idea that BMW is pulling the S65 from the M3 line simply due to CAFE is a dubious assertion. It is far, far more likely that the S65 is being pulled because it pales in comparison to the powerplants employed by all of its peers and in fact is completely outshined by a truck engine (Ford's 5.0) that makes more power and more torque all over the powerband
First of all, since the M3 still keeps up with the Ford despite having a smaller engine, I really don't see why you think it is outshined. Second, the 5.0 is not a truck engine, that's an absurd statement - its a very good engine that Ford has spent lots of $ and care to make it into what it is today.

And lastly, all BMW had to to to re-establish dominance in that segment was to increase displacement a bit. It's my belief that if it had been still globally socially acceptable, they would have used a variation of the GTS engine in the next M3.


BMW and M have repeatedly stated why they are moving away from N/A engines, and it sure as hell wasn't the disappointing power figures.
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      01-18-2013, 05:01 PM   #92
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I love the E92 M3. Nothing to complain about. The DCT is amazing and is the best looking BMW IMO.

I'm gonna keep it as long as possible... although my longest record with a car is 2 years.

After this I would consider an M6GC or CLS63.
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      01-18-2013, 06:36 PM   #93
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BMW has the worst customer service.

Easy to walk away from BMW and into a Porsche and an AMG.
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      01-18-2013, 06:47 PM   #94
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left it for an R8. Not as many for sale as M3s so its taking me a while to find the right one. And the search continues..
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      01-18-2013, 07:04 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Optherion View Post
Lol too true. I need to stay up to date when the next M3 is out because its a great car. Hope to get into the next gen M3 as the M5 serves no purpose to me. I really want boost and low end grunt.

On another note how are you loving the grunt of that c63? Seriously considering one of the 4 doors as a DD but have heard comments about the trans. Would never have a manual again after all the DCT cars ive had. 458, GT-R, M3.

This thread simply asked, why did you get rid of your M3, I wanted more low end grunt. There was nothing wrong with the car. Perfect balance. But sometimes you get sick of balance and like cars that will try to kill you Just like women. The crazy psycho ones are sometimes the hottest
I will never stray from this forum, I've met more awesome people and fellow enthusiasts here that have become good friends more than any other car club/forum I've ever been on. Long live M3post
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      01-20-2013, 04:20 PM   #96
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This is the best forum

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Originally Posted by Giggs View Post
I will never stray from this forum, I've met more awesome people and fellow enthusiasts here that have become good friends more than any other car club/forum I've ever been on. Long live M3post
Even though the only BMW in my family is an X5 diesel I still like this forum the best: all they ever talk about on the AMG forum is what carbon fiber splitter to get or how to get 20inch wheels to fit... you can see what kind of crowd that is. The Cayman forum is all about how to get 4 more HP with different air intake or tune...
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      01-20-2013, 04:59 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saildoc View Post
Even though the only BMW in my family is an X5 diesel I still like this forum the best: all they ever talk about on the AMG forum is what carbon fiber splitter to get or how to get 20inch wheels to fit... you can see what kind of crowd that is. The Cayman forum is all about how to get 4 more HP with different air intake or tune...
I don't disagree... sometimes the topics are great but often not, especially as of late for some reason.
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      01-20-2013, 05:12 PM   #98
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I think what people have to understand about the M3, is that it's a complete different car than all the others. Many of the other 'high-powered' cars have lots of HP and lots of Torque, where as the m3 has lots of HP and mediocre amount of torque. (C63 for example)

That being said, there is very minimal amount of cars that let you rev to 8,400 (excluding exotic cars). Many people are to used to driving torque heavy cars, in which the engine barely has to do any work to get it's self going.

The M3 is designed to rev, I don't see what the problem is to let car roll in 3rd or 4th gear at 50MPH (3500rpm). This car is not meant to be sitting at 2k revs and cruising.
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      01-20-2013, 05:22 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandye90m3 View Post
I think what people have to understand about the M3, is that it's a complete different car than all the others. Many of the other 'high-powered' cars have lots of HP and lots of Torque, where as the m3 has lots of HP and mediocre amount of torque. (C63 for example)

That being said, there is very minimal amount of cars that let you rev to 8,400 (excluding exotic cars). Many people are to used to driving torque heavy cars, in which the engine barely has to do any work to get it's self going.

The M3 is designed to rev, I don't see what the problem is to let car roll in 3rd or 4th gear at 50MPH (3500rpm). This car is not meant to be sitting at 2k revs and cruising.
Problem I had was that the engine is in too heavy of a car.

250wtq is inadequate for a 60k sports car that weighs 3700 lbs.

It's not as much of an issue to have a low tq high strung motor in say a cayman s that weighs 3000 lbs
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      01-20-2013, 05:38 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Problem I had was that the engine is in too heavy of a car.

250wtq is inadequate for a 60k sports car that weighs 3700 lbs.

It's not as much of an issue to have a low tq high strung motor in say a cayman s that weighs 3000 lbs
That is exactly the problem. They should have kept the car E46 sized re: weight and girth-what a monster it would have been. The E92 M3 was turning point in cars where the improvement in ride comfort, smoothness and noise was not actually a good thing-as it moved the experience so far the from the original E30 M3 that it really should be called a Caddy.
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      01-24-2013, 12:55 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saildoc View Post
Even though the only BMW in my family is an X5 diesel I still like this forum the best: all they ever talk about on the AMG forum is what carbon fiber splitter to get or how to get 20inch wheels to fit... you can see what kind of crowd that is. The Cayman forum is all about how to get 4 more HP with different air intake or tune...
...and with the same performance improvement.
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      01-24-2013, 12:13 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optherion
I missed having low end torque. Much more usable around town at low speeds. Rare in town I can even stretch the e92. Hoping the new M3 has a nice low end cause its a great DD.

Note previous cars: CLK63AMG, GT500, Viper, GT-R, ZR1, CGT, FGT
Agreed.. The new M's are V6 turbo charged (fact) just not sure how. Twin scroll, true twin like the 335is, Tri turbo and even rumors of quad running an electric turbo so from what I've seen which I was not supposed to see but because I'm A big BMW buyer they showed me real spy videos and it sounded unreal.... I mean V8 animal unreal. And high torque but not much HP gain! Maybe A bump to 435-445hp with around 370tq
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      01-24-2013, 02:32 PM   #103
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Agreed.. The new M's are V6 turbo charged (fact) just not sure how. Twin scroll, true twin like the 335is, Tri turbo and even rumors of quad running an electric turbo so from what I've seen which I was not supposed to see but because I'm A big BMW buyer they showed me real spy videos and it sounded unreal.... I mean V8 animal unreal. And high torque but not much HP gain! Maybe A bump to 435-445hp with around 370tq
Nonsense. Who is "they?"
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      01-24-2013, 07:32 PM   #104
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Nonsense. Who is "they?"
Area 51, very hush hush.
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      01-25-2013, 07:58 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post

250wtq is inadequate for a 60k sports car that weighs 3700 lbs.
250wtq????????? Creating a new unit of measure to make your point?
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      01-25-2013, 08:00 PM   #106
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250wtq????????? Creating a new unit of measure to make your point?
Really?

250 ft lbs of torque measured at the wheels.....

This is a very common way to write that.

I was at a dyno day with m3's including my own, all of which made between 230-260 ft lbs of torque to the wheels. Or wtq as I wrote in shorthand..

W - wheel
Tq - torque

Similar to whp

W - wheel
Hp - horsepower

Can't believe I have to explain this. But hey, how dare I or anyone else say anything that isn't positive about the m3!
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      01-25-2013, 09:31 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post

250wtq is inadequate for a 60k sports car that weighs 3700 lbs.
Sorry, but it's middle school physics fail... (Most of the world has physics in middle school) Here are the correct wtq numbers for M3: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157633

They would be different for each gear. Also, torque is a pointless measure by itself, without revs. For example, if you put a 1/2 reductor on an M3 engine, it will work like a 595 lb/ft torque engine with 4200 RPM redline, but it's still the same engine!

Back to the topic, I am leaving M3 only because now I can afford to replace it with 2 P-cars... Yes, it's far from perfect, and is not a one car to rule them all, but it's damn brilliant if it takes 2 more expensive cars to fully replace it. And I either ridden in or test drove almost all alternatives under $200K.
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      01-25-2013, 11:01 PM   #108
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left it for an R8. Not as many for sale as M3s so its taking me a while to find the right one. And the search continues..
If you get an R8 please get the V10... no point in getting the V8 but giggs either way im looking forward to the next project.
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      01-26-2013, 12:42 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Really?

250 ft lbs of torque measured at the wheels.....

This is a very common way to write that.

I was at a dyno day with m3's including my own, all of which made between 230-260 ft lbs of torque to the wheels. Or wtq as I wrote in shorthand..

W - wheel
Tq - torque

Similar to whp

W - wheel
Hp - horsepower

Can't believe I have to explain this. But hey, how dare I or anyone else say anything that isn't positive about the m3!
WOW!!!! Pls tell me that you are kidding with your explanation.....really????? You do realize that the "torque at the wheels" as you put it, depends on the gearing, right?

Wtq is a common way to write torque....again, pls tell me that you are kidding. I've never seen that term in all my years of engineering, racing, or even forum discussions. You might want to google "wtq" and see what comes up.

Listen, I'm cool w your attempt to mock me but you should at least do some homework first....like 8 grade homework.
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      01-27-2013, 12:59 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Mmmm3333 View Post
WOW!!!! Pls tell me that you are kidding with your explanation.....really????? You do realize that the "torque at the wheels" as you put it, depends on the gearing, right?

Wtq is a common way to write torque....again, pls tell me that you are kidding. I've never seen that term in all my years of engineering, racing, or even forum discussions. You might want to google "wtq" and see what comes up.

Listen, I'm cool w your attempt to mock me but you should at least do some homework first....like 8 grade homework.
Ever been to a dyno? It measures torque and hp at the wheels. Typically all cars dyno in the gear closest to 1:1 which iirc is 5th gear in the m3.

On a dyno, an m3 typically measures 250 ft lbs at the wheels in 4th or 5th gear.

Compared to similar cars in the segment, the measured tq on the m3 is the lowest.

Again, not sure why this is complicated. There are thousands of threads in this forum with similar dyno results and terms.

Anyway, done arguing semantics. M3 is a good car, but it does have a low amount of torque.

Additionally, I'm sure you realize that the first sarcastic personal attack was made by you in your first response to me.
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