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      05-25-2011, 02:39 PM   #1
rfowlerm3
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2008 E92 M3 Brake Rotors Warping

Here's my situation:

I purchased a 2008 E92 M3 in early 2009. After about 8K miles the steering wheel would shake while lightly applying the brakes at 70+mph. So I took the car into the dealership and they said the rotors are warped. They replaced them with new pads and rotors. Everything was back to normal. However after another 6k miles I got the same problem happening again. So I took it back in and they replaced them a 2nd time. Keep in mind I had only gone through 10% of my pads from the first time they replaced the rotors to the 2nd time so it's not like I as doing any excessive braking. Then what happens? After another 6k miles the same warping again. So they replace it one more time and tell me this is the last time. Of course they warp again after another 6k miles after the 3rd time and BMW refuses to replace them anymore telling me that the reason this is happening is because I am abusing the vehicle. Now I've owned an E36, E46 and E92 M3 the past 12 years. I have NEVER had any problems with any of them until this one. I have only tracked the current M3 one time at a BMW sponsored event before any rotors were replaced.

Is there anyone else out there with the same problem with their E90/E92 M3 in that the brake rotors are warping under normal driving?
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      05-25-2011, 02:48 PM   #2
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That is very strange. Are you sure you're being honest?
If yes, then perhaps there's an engineering reason why this is happening.
Can any tech heads out there offer some insight?
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      05-25-2011, 02:59 PM   #3
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I assume the tech checked other suspension components for excessive wear, such as wheel bearings and control arm bushings. If you are using the OE pads, without switching between different street/track pads, and your use is as described, then it’s hard to imagine a reason for it. And even with such switching around, I would not expect warped rotors, but perhaps pad deposits that could demonstrate a similar symptom. Contrary to general opinion, it is rare for a rotor to warp.
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      05-25-2011, 03:00 PM   #4
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I am absolutely being honest. Anyone else out there experiencing this problem?
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      05-25-2011, 03:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfowlerm3 View Post
I am absolutely being honest. Anyone else out there experiencing this problem?
Nope!My stock rotors lasted at least 53000kms and over 40 trackdays with no warpage.I had pad deposits which caused vibration but they cleaned off after a bit of use.They were still within service limits when I sold the car.
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      05-25-2011, 03:44 PM   #6
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Even if you drove your car for the last 6k miles only from work and back home with no street racing. Then the issue you are having is because you are riding your brakes way too much.

Also get some fresh fluid in to brake lines. And check calipers for any damage.

But im quiet sure you just riding your brakes too much. So you need to change your habit as to how you use the brakes when you slow down.

Does any one else drives the car besides you?????
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      05-25-2011, 03:47 PM   #7
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Hmmm more likely is pad deposit on the disks not warped disks.
Did they check the run out on the disks?
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      05-25-2011, 03:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Hmmm more likely is pad deposit on the disks not warped disks.
Did they check the run out on the disks?

And where or how exactly would a pad deposit stick on to a moving rotor???
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      05-25-2011, 04:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
And where or how exactly would a pad deposit stick on to a moving rotor???
Pad material reaction to heat. The pad transfer happens constantly with all pads, thatís how they work. But it should be uniform, assuming the operating temperature is within the design range of the pads. Thatís why race pads donít work when cold, and why track temps melt street pads in a weekend.
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      05-25-2011, 04:15 PM   #10
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You are not hosing down the brakes w water when they are hot are you?

That's the only other reason I could think of that was not mentioned.

Do you feel vibration in the pedal? Ever experience brake fade? Just thought I'd ask.
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      05-25-2011, 04:17 PM   #11
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I had my rotors warped after 9K miles as well. Same exact symptoms as OP, shake in steering wheel when braking above 50MPH And i dont "abuse" my car.

My buddy assumed it was also pad deposit, but when I went to dealer, they checked the rotor and the oscillation was pretty bad. My M is also a 2008

Hopefully that is the only and last time, anyone else have this issue besides OP and I?
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      05-25-2011, 04:17 PM   #12
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The 'tech' probably didn't check the rotors properly. I could almost guarantee that they won't be warped.

It will probably be either pad deposits, dirt behind the rotor mounting face, buckled wheel/tyre, or worn suspension bushes.

Next time, get them checked at a precision engineering shop who know what they are doing.
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      05-25-2011, 04:21 PM   #13
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There is no such a thing as warped rotors. There is no way that pressing cast iron with a softer compound could warp the rotors. Like someone mentioned before the vibration is due to brake pad deposits that are caused by uneven cool down of the brake rotors. When you create heat by pressing the brake pedal and come to a stop leaving the foot on the brake causes the surface that has contact with the pad to stay hot while the rest of the rotor is cooling down;therefore a chemical reaction causes that a deposit of pad material to be deposited on the rotor forming an uneven surface which is not visible to the naked eye.

Your driving habits caused those deposits and you should make changes to the way you use your brakes. Excessive heat is your enemy and leaving your foot on the brake after generating excessive heat will contribute to vibrations on your braking system. Dragging the brakes generates heat and that's why people who drive that way usually experience brake problems.

Keeping your brakes cool when possible should be your state of mind. Try braking and taking your foot of the brake to slow down when you know that you will be approaching a red light or intersection and take your foot of the brake as soon as your car stop. The M3 DCT will allow you to do that.

Just my .02
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      05-25-2011, 05:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trucheli View Post
There is no such a thing as warped rotors. There is no way that pressing cast iron with a softer compound could warp the rotors. Like someone mentioned before the vibration is due to brake pad deposits that are caused by uneven cool down of the brake rotors. When you create heat by pressing the brake pedal and come to a stop leaving the foot on the brake causes the surface that has contact with the pad to stay hot while the rest of the rotor is cooling down;therefore a chemical reaction causes that a deposit of pad material to be deposited on the rotor forming an uneven surface which is not visible to the naked eye.

Your driving habits caused those deposits and you should make changes to the way you use your brakes. Excessive heat is your enemy and leaving your foot on the brake after generating excessive heat will contribute to vibrations on your braking system. Dragging the brakes generates heat and that's why people who drive that way usually experience brake problems.

Keeping your brakes cool when possible should be your state of mind. Try braking and taking your foot of the brake to slow down when you know that you will be approaching a red light or intersection and take your foot of the brake as soon as your car stop. The M3 DCT will allow you to do that.

Just my .02
The flaw in that logic. Is that the so called deposits get removed once you start braking again. And the so called deposits aren't enough to cause shaking while braking. You would need rocks being stock in the brake pad surface, but then you would see deep grooves in the rotors. The only way your method would work if the driver is a poor driver and doesnt properly brake.

And yes, there is such a thing as warped rotors!

http://newcarbuyingguide.com/index.p...318/event=view

You can google a lot of information on warped rotors.



Quote:
Originally Posted by elh0102 View Post
Pad material reaction to heat. The pad transfer happens constantly with all pads, that’s how they work. But it should be uniform, assuming the operating temperature is within the design range of the pads. That’s why race pads don’t work when cold, and why track temps melt street pads in a weekend.
You haven't answered my question, you simply told me how brakes work.




The way to prevent warped rotors, is to follow a strict break in procedure for pads and rotors.

PREVENTION

There is only one way to prevent this sort of thing - following proper break in procedures for both pad and disc and use the correct pad for your driving style and conditions. All high performance after market discs and pads should come with both installation and break in instructions. The procedures are very similar between manufacturers. With respect to the pads, the bonding resins must be burned off relatively slowly to avoid both fade and uneven deposits. The procedure is several stops of increasing severity with a brief cooling period between them. After the last stop, the system should be allowed to cool to ambient temperature. Typically, a series of ten increasingly hard stops from 60mph to 5 mph with normal acceleration in between should get the job done for a high performance street pad. During pad or disc break-in, do not come to a complete stop, so plan where and when you do this procedure with care and concern for yourself and the safety of others. If you come to a complete stop before the break-in process is completed there is the chance for non-uniform pad material transfer or pad imprinting to take place and the results will be what the whole process is trying to avoid. Game over.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyeatsworld View Post
You are not hosing down the brakes w water when they are hot are you?

That's the only other reason I could think of that was not mentioned.

Do you feel vibration in the pedal? Ever experience brake fade? Just thought I'd ask.
Very good question.
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Last edited by KGB7; 05-25-2011 at 06:07 PM.
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      05-25-2011, 06:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post

You haven't answered my question, you simply told me how brakes work.

Sorry, I thought I did. If pad material is subjected to heat significantly beyond its design parameters, then it no longer transfers in a uniform manner. If you rub a stick of butter on toast, it comes off very evenly. If you try to rub in on the surface of a hot pan on the stove top, it pours off, and will then solidify in chunks as it cools. Of course, the "chunks" on a brake rotor are thousandths of an inch in thickness, but still there. At least, that is my understanding of it, and seems to be supported by experience.
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      05-25-2011, 06:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elh0102 View Post
Sorry, I thought I did. If pad material is subjected to heat significantly beyond its design parameters, then it no longer transfers in a uniform manner. If you rub a stick of butter on toast, it comes off very evenly. If you try to rub in on the surface of a hot pan on the stove top, it pours off, and will then solidify in chunks as it cools. Of course, the "chunks" on a brake rotor are thousandths of an inch in thickness, but still there. At least, that is my understanding of it, and seems to be supported by experience.
Thats called brake fade. The pad can have full contact with the rotor, but the pad will no longer have "grip" or "resistance" against a rotor. Thus the car doesnt stop.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fade





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake

Scroll down to;
Disc damage modes
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Last edited by KGB7; 05-25-2011 at 06:16 PM.
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      05-25-2011, 06:27 PM   #17
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I will be honest in saying....

after putting hawk hps pads on and killing them rotors, they better WARP or I aint driving hard enough lol..


Seriously though, it might be the calipers are uneven.
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      05-25-2011, 07:09 PM   #18
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A couple more questions and points to consider...

I would recommend not using your parking brake after hard braking and or driving. This can potentially cause a problem.

Also after a session of hard driving I would recommend cooling down the brakes by cruisin around a bit.
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      05-25-2011, 07:11 PM   #19
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Hey op are you Ricky Fowler the golfer?
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      05-25-2011, 07:18 PM   #20
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Question; Manual or DCT? AND... No I don't want to make this another one of "those" threads. Also, front, rear, or both sets warped?
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      05-25-2011, 07:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfowlerm3 View Post
I am absolutely being honest. Anyone else out there experiencing this problem?
What I would do is to make a series of stops from 60 mph or so, hard but not so hard as to have ABS activation. 10 stops or so will do and check afterwards. Be sure also to have the lug bolts torqued evenly (using a torque wrench). If the pulsing continues then the problem was warped rotors. If it disappears, deposits or something like that are the problem. You should also check the front wheels for balance. With these big wheels bad balance sometimes feel like warped rotors.
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      05-25-2011, 07:33 PM   #22
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There is no such a thing as warped rotors.
Guess you didn't take physics in High School then . Get your cast iron rotors hot enough from riding the brake pedal (or doing a few panic stops from high speeds), then hose them down with cold water and tell me what happens . And yes, riding the brakes can warp them too.
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