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      12-18-2012, 02:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriskm3 View Post
I do not understand why some people think their opinion is holds more merit as the OPs.

Um, because he came here to ask our opinions about it?
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      12-18-2012, 02:53 PM   #24
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I'll ignore the color switch factor here since a) I'm not a fan of black or white cars since both are too common and I think neither one shows off the lines of the car very well, and b) it's too subjective.

As for switching from DCT to 6MT, all I can do is tell you what made me get 6MT after trying DCT. First off, my driving rarely has me stuck in traffic, so that took a big advantage of DCT off the table for me, but if you have traffic then that's definitely a consideration. But having driven both, while I concede that DCT is at least as fun and maybe even more fun during harder back road driving and on the track because of the immediacy of everything, 6MT isn't exactly boring in those settings either. But 6MT takes driving that would otherwise be totally boring in DCT (e.g. city driving) and makes it fun, so I saw it as giving up (maybe) a tiny bit of fun on harder driving and the track and gaining a lot of fun on typical driving, the latter of which still makes up a decent chunk of my overall miles. And even though 6MT will never be as consistently smooth as DCT, there's a joy in always chasing that perfectly smooth upshift or rev-matched heel-toe downshift and feeling like a total hero when you get it exactly right. Plus I figure I have plenty of time in my life to drive great DCT cars, but 6MT's days are numbered, unfortunately, so I wanted to get it while I still could.

Is that enough to justify switching when you already have DCT? I probably wouldn't since I'd still have a blast in a DCT M3, and if I really wanted manual I'd probably use that as an excuse to get into a different car (lots of great machinery out there), but what I would do is irrelevant. What you do is for you to decide.
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Last edited by jphughan; 12-18-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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      12-18-2012, 02:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILSMKU View Post
I recently ordered a 2013 Mineral white E92 manual to replace my 2011 Jetblack DCT and now Im having 2nd thoughts!

For the most part I like my car. As seen here...


But Ive never owned a manual V8 car which is sometime I would like to have. I just worry that if I get it, It might feel like a downgrade from the DCT.

I also have a love hate relationship with my jet black paint. It looks awesome when clean. But its a PITA. So I ordered mineral white/ FR this time around, but Im starting to think that grow tired of the mineral white considering 8/10 M3s are white. My wife thinks Im crazy to dump my black m3 with two tone interior for a white one with fox red only interior. She thinks MW/FR combo is "candy cane" looking...LOL.

Ive been going back and forth on this and its driving me nuts. Keep my 2011 DCT M3 with 17K on it or sell it and get a mineral white 2013 manual Anyone have any thoughts or simular experiance? I just cant make up my mind!
Nice car ... i dont see your Inspection sticker ! do you have one on there ?
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      12-18-2012, 03:02 PM   #26
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      12-18-2012, 03:16 PM   #27
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I would keep the black one.

It makes no sense to me at all for all the people ordering 2013 M3's.... The darn car will be instantly outdated once the new one comes in. There are better choices out there than a 2013 M3.
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      12-18-2012, 03:22 PM   #28
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hold tight, unless you've driven the MT and love it and now cannot live without it. Everyone who gets MT complains about how rubbery it is and has longer than expected throw etc etc etc. Yea, JB is a PITA to keep clean, but when it is, it's pretty sweet. I've personally had three black cars now, and I'm a fan... for punishment.

I have a MT and almost went DCT recently, but decided I'm a hard core MT fan and will keep on buying it until it goes out of production. There's PLENTY of time to switch and enjoy the DCT type transmissions as they are certainly here to stay.
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      12-18-2012, 03:49 PM   #29
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I think Ive made up my mind to keep the black one. If Im posting a thread like this and asking you crazy guys what you think; then Im not 100% commited to begin with now am I? Im going to cancel my order and be happy with what I have. Its a nice car as it is.

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and opinions.


-D
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      12-18-2012, 03:56 PM   #30
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I won't comment on the tranny switch since it's all about your preference but black cars are such PITA to keep clean, I think just for that it is worth it, plus the M3 looks really good in white with it's carbon fiber roof. There's a reason why so many are white, it's cause it is NICCCCE!! Also I really hate 2 tones interiors unless it's suede/leather, you'll love your FR garanteed!
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      12-18-2012, 04:17 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
...Dct's shorter gears and immediate shifts contribute a pretty big difference in speed from the manual...
Glad you made a decision! If you are happy with it then that's all that matters. Color is a matter of personal taste and I am on my second IB/Beige car - I love that combo.

And BTW this thread was unusually cordial...

I wanted to comment on the quote above since I think the author is only referring to M-DCT in the Auto mode when he/she says, "shorter gears and immediate shifts." M-DCT in Manual mode at S4/S5, as you know, let's you scream.

Anyway, my $.02. Good luck, your car looks great!
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      12-18-2012, 04:33 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by ILSMKU View Post
I think Ive made up my mind to keep the black one. If Im posting a thread like this and asking you crazy guys what you think; then Im not 100% commited to begin with now am I? Im going to cancel my order and be happy with what I have. Its a nice car as it is.

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and opinions. "Group Hug"


-D

Seriously blow that Chit and you will forget about color
FWIW If I still lived in San Diego I WOULD be rokin black
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      12-18-2012, 04:34 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
I would keep the black one.

It makes no sense to me at all for all the people ordering 2013 M3's.... The darn car will be instantly outdated once the new one comes in. There are better choices out there than a 2013 M3.
I am confused by this line of reasoning. I faced the same dilemma, did a bunch of research, and came to the conclusion that the only thing that actually made sense was to get a 2013 E92. Will be selling my 2011. I got 6MT both times in similar configurations -- speed cloth, competition package, carbon roof. Only change is the color!

Short hand notes, most of it my opinion of course:

1) I don't like sedans
2) I don't like the new non-M BMWs; the throttle lag drives me nuts and takes the fun out of driving.
3) No new M3 coupe out till 2015.. so much for "instantly outdated."
4) Very few cars have a small displacement V8 that revs to 8400rpm with individual throttle bodies that responds instantly to any input and makes the best noises above 5K this side of Ferrari.
5) The M3 has an excellent 6MT, which I prefer for involvement (you can't drive that fast in the USA anyway) where as this is an afterthought or non-existent for everyone else except Porsche in this category.
6) Sad to say but the E92 M3 now looks like a lightweight car compared to other offerings
7) The M3's competitors:
a) S5 = basically a joke at the asking price
b) RS5 = more expensive and too soft
c) 2013 Cayman S = REALLY nice but being <100hp down with the Porsche exhaust note killed it for me
d) Previous generation Cayman = too ugly IMO
e) Boxster = IMO can't get over the Boxster stigma
f) CTS-V = totally not my style
g) C63 = really not my style; don't like brute power; don't like the styling at all
h) 911 = either a used car or double the price for a new one ?? no thanks
i) Lexus IS-F = IMO a total POS of a car; would never drive one, a poorly executed attempt to copy the M3, why drive the crappy copy when you can have the original?

Did I miss anything? There is no other 35XXlb coupe with a high-revving 8400rpm V8 and a great, smooth 6MT on the market right now or planned to be on the market that I am aware of. Oh, and the car needs 2-3 oil changes and NOTHING else and is in shop for an hour a year.

+ big factor: I do ED leases, get a nice Euro trip every two-three years and I pay <$600/mo for the M3 $0 down and end up with significant equity in the lease due to USA residual. I am a numbers guy -- BMW's lease programs are unparalleled, nobody else has the MSD option that saves a ton of money for letting BMW hold a tiny bit of capital for a while. Oh, and BMW is offering $2500 off the M3 this month.

So all these factors... considering equity in a lease and an even cheaper payment for a brand new car.. what ELSE would you get?

Last edited by bvanderbilt; 12-18-2012 at 04:45 PM.
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      12-18-2012, 04:36 PM   #34
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The darker the colour the less you appreciate the contours of the E92 and the carbon roof just gets completely hidden.

I have Mineral White and it looks stunning in bright light, it is definitely not just any old white.

I also have 6MT, and have loads of experience of DCT. If I spent a significant amount of time on track in my own M3 I might have specced DCT, because there, in those circumstances it is brilliant. As it is, all of my track time is in cars provided by BMW, which have DCT. In normal road driving I find DCT way too uninvolving and it just takes away the pleasure of manipulating that superbly responsive engine. Every shift, up or down, fast or slow, is an event to be savoured.

The latest manual transmission cars have a much better clutch action than earlier ones and even in heavy traffic I do not regret my decision, as the clutch is light and first gear is low enough for trickling along at less than walking speed without any effort. I do not find the shift action particularly notchy, especially if I get the rev matching right into 2nd. Sure, lazy shifts into 2nd will be a bit reluctant, but working for your pleasure is all part of the pleasure...

Go for it. There will never be a better - or any other - opportunity for a manual, naturally aspirated high revving masterpiece like this car.
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      12-18-2012, 04:44 PM   #35
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Now that you made up your mind on keeping it... it's time to supercharge it!
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      12-18-2012, 04:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
I am confused by this line of reasoning. I faced the same dilemma, did a bunch of research, and came to the conclusion that the only thing that actually made sense was to get a 2013 E92. Will be selling my 2011. I got 6MT both times in similar configurations.

Factors for me:

[Snipped]

Did I miss anything? There is no other 3400lb coupe with a high-revving 8400rpm V8 on the market right now or planned to be on the market that I am aware of.

So all these factors... what ELSE would you get?
True enough -- although the E9x M3s weigh 3700 lbs. 3400 would definitely be nice though.

As for other cars, it depends on what you're looking for. The M3 isn't the best at any one thing (horsepower, torque, price, handling, styling, practicality, etc) but I believe it's by far the best car on the market all things considered. But there are still a lot of really cool cars out there. One that I can't get out of my head is actually the Subaru BRZ, which I got to drive on back roads for about 2 hours. It definitely doesn't have the power or gem of an engine that the M3 does, but it's still a total blast to drive, and being 1000 lbs lighter than the M3 makes for some amazing feel. It's a totally different car from the M3 to be sure, but I don't have to worry too much about practicality with my cars. "Smiles per mile" is my main concern, and somehow the BRZ manages to deliver on that element nearly as much as the M3, despite costing about a third of the price. There's still no other car that I'd rather have than the M3 right now that's anywhere near its price, but that's not to say there isn't fun to be had with other cars as well.
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      12-18-2012, 05:09 PM   #37
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MW on FR is pretty awesome!!! Manuel is a PITA if your always sitting in traffic, DCT does feel faster and more efficient. I would go 6MT just to switch things up.
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      12-18-2012, 05:13 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
True enough -- although the E9x M3s weigh 3700 lbs. 3400 would definitely be nice though.

As for other cars, it depends on what you're looking for. The M3 isn't the best at any one thing (horsepower, torque, price, handling, styling, practicality, etc) but I believe it's by far the best car on the market all things considered. But there are still a lot of really cool cars out there. One that I can't get out of my head is actually the Subaru BRZ...
3700 lbs is unladen weight (so with a 165lb driver and an almost full gas tank). Comparison curb weight of the E92 M3 is around 3560 lbs. I should be really close to the minimum with the way I like to option the car. I was too low at 3400 but 3560 is a spring chicken compared to the Mercedes or the Audi.

The BRZ is really awesome; I have met a bunch of owners thus far just walking up to compliment the car and all have been enthusiasts. I have an E46 M3 that fulfills "fun car" duties at the moment; I might replace that with a BRZ if I get interested enough but the E46 is so much car for the $$ these days that I'm not too tempted.

E92 M3 is my practical car of the bunch.
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      12-18-2012, 05:22 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
5) The M3 has an excellent 6MT, which I prefer for involvement (you can't drive that fast in the USA anyway) where as this is an afterthought or non-existent for everyone else except Porsche in this category.
Actually I feel the M3 MT is definitely an afterthought. Want proof? Drive a 1M coupe. That MT is sublime. I guess considering it's the only way to buy the car, BMW wanted to make sure it was great. Too bad that wasn't the case for the M3.

The worst part about the M3 MT is definitely the knob itself. That's the reason for the rubbery feel. Good thing it's easy to fix that.
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      12-18-2012, 05:31 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
Actually I feel the M3 MT is definitely an afterthought. Want proof? Drive a 1M coupe. That MT is sublime. I guess considering it's the only way to buy the car, BMW wanted to make sure it was great. Too bad that wasn't the case for the M3.

The worst part about the M3 MT is definitely the knob itself. That's the reason for the rubbery feel. Good thing it's easy to fix that.
Everybody has an opinion on the 6MT in the M3; I am sure I will not convince you. But the 6MT in this car requires specific driver adaptations. When I first got mine I was disappointed. Now I think it is one of the best transmissions I have ever used. I love it and I seemingly cannot execute anything other than a perfect shift every time; it's like it is connected to my brain. But it took me a long time to figure out how to use it properly.

In my opinion a lot of people try to adapt the transmission to what they are used to rather than the other way around. Change the knob to something with more weight, modify the pedal, remove the spring. These band-aids actually make the problems worse.

My further thoughts here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=33 ..

I've met a couple M3 owners who are not enthusiasts/forum members and they all said some variation of "do you have a problem getting a smooth shift into 2nd?" ... so a common problem with this car that I've managed to completely eliminate by changing only my technique.

YMMV

Last edited by bvanderbilt; 12-18-2012 at 05:38 PM.
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      12-18-2012, 05:42 PM   #41
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My only suggestion is to get an Individual M3 the second time around. A real personalized M3 from factory -even if it is just stitching. Anything else is just the same thing as before but newer.
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      12-18-2012, 05:45 PM   #42
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My only suggestion is to get an Individual M3 the second time around. A real personalized M3 from factory -even if it is just stitching. Anything else is just the same thing as before but newer.
Your car is gorgeous. However, don't you think paying $5000 for some stitching a bit of a poor value proposition? "Individual" has always been a gimmick to me, e.g. "pick from these five colors we're willing to do, for a truly custom car." ...what?

I was impressed by that guy that stitched his existing stitching. It looked OEM. And easily returnable to stock.
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      12-18-2012, 05:53 PM   #43
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Seems kinda strange to me to go from a 2011 to a 2013, for basically a tranny change. Car basically looks the same either color when you're driving

I could almost see going from a 2008 (old iDrive, maybe you've had it since new) to a 2012 last year. Then you could enjoy the 'newness' of the car and features, and have a '12 for 2-3 years until the F80/F82 comes out. 2011 to 2013 is basically the same car. And in the short term, '13 resale values are gonna drop like a rock when the F80 debuts. Remember how many people really wanted an E46 M3 right after the E9x M3 debuted? Not many. Sure, people will always want the "old" car, but resale values never keep up.

If I was the OP, I'd go test drive a 650i, M6, or maybe even a 991. If you're paying cash for a new M3, then an M6 or 991 shouldn't really be a stretch.

Life is short... drive some different cars
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      12-18-2012, 05:53 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
Everybody has an opinion on the 6MT in the M3; I am sure I will not convince you. But the 6MT in this car requires specific driver adaptations. When I first got mine I was disappointed. Now I think it is one of the best transmissions I have ever used. I love it and I seemingly cannot execute anything other than a perfect shift every time; it's like it is connected to my brain. But it took me a long time to figure out how to use it properly.

In my opinion a lot of people try to adapt the transmission to what they are used to rather than the other way around. Change the knob to something with more weight, modify the pedal, remove the spring. These band-aids actually make the problems worse.

My further thoughts here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=33 ..

I've met a couple M3 owners who are not enthusiasts/forum members and they all said some variation of "do you have a problem getting a smooth shift into 2nd?" ... so a common problem with this car that I've managed to completely eliminate by changing only my technique.

YMMV
same story here!
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