26 people were killed in a shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary

[Litos]

you can clearly see the innocense of these kids that were affected.

who in their right mind would think that karate chops and leg sweeps would stop a 20 year old with an AR-15 style weapon !?!?

it isn't about that though - it's the fact that the kid stepped up and took charge.

fucking kid will be a hero one day......i wish that kid nothing but good fortune and success.....love that kid......

[ChaneRZ]

I guess the mother trained her unstable son to be a good shoot. Lock your guns if you have someone "emo" / unstable mind living around your house.

[Chrisruf911]

I pray for the families affected by this tragedy. It's an absolutely horrific situation. I own several firearms of which a few are of the "assault rifle" type. I live in a smaller town just south of Louisville. I would estimate 80% of the homes here have at least one firearm present. Most are used for hunting but some are strictly self defense weapons. Since moving back three years ago I do not recall hearing of any gun related homicides. You would think with all the loose gun laws in Kentucky there would be more violence with guns. It just isn't the case. For people who support gun bans, this country has a 150+ year history of gun ownership. Guns change hands many times legally with no record of the transaction. Being so, our government has absolutely no way of tracking all the firearms in use. Short of a door to door sweep (which would be a bloodbath) there is no way to disarm our citizens. Stricter gun laws? Doesn't work. It didn't keep the multiple convicted felon who robbed me from having one which is why I feel the need to be armed.

[hks786]

IMO its wrong to have weapons so easily available to the public. It wouldnt make me feel safe having a gun under my pillow when I know the people who break into my house also have firearms and the element of surprise. At the end of the day if we can keep weapons out of criminal hands then we dont need to keep guns for protection.

Also, I think America can start to disarm criminals if they get troops out of foreign lands. The $3 billion that go to Israel for aid every year would also help.

[samchoi604]

I chuckle whenever I hear someone say they need firearms for self defense. How many of you ACTUALLY used a gun to protect yourself? How many of you so-called protectors have used a gun to protect the women and children during massacres at schools, malls, movie theaters?

FBI counted an average of 213 justified firearm homicides per year over the period 2005-2010. Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/opinio...fer/index.html

I'm pretty sure that includes none of you on this forum. And, as very well stated above, your guns are useless when an armed intruder has the element of surprise.

[kingofthedemo]

Originally Posted by samchoi604

I chuckle whenever I hear someone say they need firearms for self defense. How many of you ACTUALLY used a gun to protect yourself? How many of you so-called protectors have used a gun to protect the women and children during massacres at schools, malls, movie theaters?

FBI counted an average of 213 justified firearm homicides per year over the period 2005-2010. Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/opinio...fer/index.html






I'm pretty sure that includes none of you on this forum. And, as very well stated above, your guns are useless when an armed intruder has the element of surprise.

Here's a little fact for you buddy, you don't have to kill someone in order to use a gun for self defense!



The police carry guns, but guess what, the vast majority of police officers are able to use their guns to gain control over a violent situation without killing anyone, and the same goes for armed citizens (see videos below), how many people do you think the police kill a year? Does it mean that they do not need guns if the number is low? Your building a straw man argument here, guns are needed for protection the amount of people killed by guns does not accurately reflect the amount of lives saved by them, once again see the videos below, that stuff happens all of the time in the US!


There have been many, many,many, more than 213 incidents in which a firearm saved a life in this country, or thwarted a crime in that time period (at least thousands). The beauty of a firearm is that it often diffuses or ,neutralizes a situation, say a guy pulls a knife on you- at the mere sight of your gun the situation is typically over, and there is no need to even shoot, simply presenting it will diffuse the situation.

And yes I have used my gun in self defense before, I didn't have to shoot and I held off three attackers until the police arrived, my gun saved my life. It's like they say the police are only minutes away when you only have seconds to spare.

Why don't you tell some of these people in the video's below some of your opinions regarding firearms!




































I could go on listing these all day, this kind of thing happens all of the time here, and I'm glad we have the ability to protect ourselves!

[ChaneRZ]

nice one man

[sjk9671]

Originally Posted by hks786

if we can keep weapons out of criminal hands

This is the problem. That will never happen. Unfortunately, all more gun control will do is keep guns out of law abiding citizens hands.

Criminals don't care about the laws.

[MrRoboto]

Guns are an easy target when things like this happen but the problem is much bigger.

[Ali@BMWMt.laurel]

those who intend to inflict harm will get there hands on guns regardless of any law.

[hks786]

Originally Posted by sjk9671

This is the problem. That will never happen. Unfortunately, all more gun control will do is keep guns out of law abiding citizens hands.

Criminals don't care about the laws.

Originally Posted by AKAFP

those who intend to inflict harm will get there hands on guns regardless of any law.

I agree that the problem cannot be solved simply by having tighter gun control legislation. Although I do think even this one change would still prevent some guns falling into the wrong hands.

What is clear is that the status quo is not acceptable. I believe that gun control laws are part of the solution but also there has to be action in terms of enforcement. This would involve 2 elements. Firstly, removing guns from the streets that are already out there. I acknowledge that this is a HUGE task but there are US troops fighting the 'war on terror' (another topic for another day!) yet there is no war on guns in America. Secondly, there is a need for greater enforcement to prevent more guns coming into the country and falling into wrong hands. I.e. border checks etc.

I think there should also be an immediate gun amnesty. I'm not naive to think that this will solve the problem but as I say there needs to many approaches to gun crime in America and every possible action should be adopted. Here in the U.K. there have been times where amnesties have recovered 40,000 weapons!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...0-weapons.html

[kingofthedemo]

Originally Posted by hks786

I agree that the problem cannot be solved simply by having tighter gun control legislation. Although I do think even this one change would still prevent some guns falling into the wrong hands.

What is clear is that the status quo is not acceptable. I believe that gun control laws are part of the solution but also there has to be action in terms of enforcement. This would involve 2 elements. Firstly, removing guns from the streets that are already out there. I acknowledge that this is a HUGE task but there are US troops fighting the 'war on terror' (another topic for another day!) yet there is no war on guns in America. Secondly, there is a need for greater enforcement to prevent more guns coming into the country and falling into wrong hands. I.e. border checks etc.

I think there should also be an immediate gun amnesty. I'm not naive to think that this will solve the problem but as I say there needs to many approaches to gun crime in America and every possible action should be adopted. Here in the U.K. there have been times where amnesties have recovered 40,000 weapons!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...0-weapons.html

A ''war on guns'' would practically result in a civil war in this country most of our citizens simply would not give up their arms, keep in mind that there are currently around two hundred and thirty million guns in the USA!

[upstatedoc]

my wife just texted me and said she was a wreck when she dropped the kids off at school today. Imagine that was a common occurence today.

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by hks786

I agree that the problem cannot be solved simply by having tighter gun control legislation. Although I do think even this one change would still prevent some guns falling into the wrong hands.

What is clear is that the status quo is not acceptable. I believe that gun control laws are part of the solution but also there has to be action in terms of enforcement. This would involve 2 elements. Firstly, removing guns from the streets that are already out there. I acknowledge that this is a HUGE task but there are US troops fighting the 'war on terror' (another topic for another day!) yet there is no war on guns in America. Secondly, there is a need for greater enforcement to prevent more guns coming into the country and falling into wrong hands. I.e. border checks etc.

I think there should also be an immediate gun amnesty. I'm not naive to think that this will solve the problem but as I say there needs to many approaches to gun crime in America and every possible action should be adopted. Here in the U.K. there have been times where amnesties have recovered 40,000 weapons!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...0-weapons.html

For a gun 'amnesty' you would first have to make us legal gun owners criminals by making our guns illegal.

We have had 'buy backs' in high crime areas where if someone surrenders a gun they are given some money, these programs are not effective, mostly broken/junk guns are surrendered.

[Rookie83]

If we are going to make guns illegal to keep them off the streets we might as well go ahead and make meth and heroin illegal as well.

And i think in this case they need to look at school security. Why were the doors not locked to keep outside traffic outside? Where was any type of police officer or school security? It's just really sad that this lunatic was able to walk in and kill innocent children and teachers so easily.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by Rookie83

If we are going to make guns illegal to keep them off the streets we might as well go ahead and make meth and heroin illegal as well.

And i think in this case they need to look at school security. Why were the doors not locked to keep outside traffic outside? Where was any type of police officer or school security? It's just really sad that this lunatic was able to walk in and kill innocent children and teachers so easily.

I believe the doors were locked, but he forced his way inside. The doors to my daughter's school are always locked, and you get ID'ed by a camera when you ring the bell. I think this is standard procedure across all schools in the country. Doors are open at NYC schools, but they also have dedicated NYPD security.

[Litos]

here's another example of how a good guy with a gun can deter a gunman from killing mass amounts of people.

if the shooter wouldn't have seen this guy with a gun, he could have picked off 5, 10, 15, 25 more people.....


http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-ma...183593571.html

PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.

"I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.

The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.

"He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."

The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.

"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.

Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

The gunman was dead, but not before taking two innocent lives with him and taking the innocence of everyone else.

"I don't ever want to see anyone that way ever," said Meli. "It just bothers me."

[ScarecrowBoat]

Originally Posted by JMX328

Gun bans in England and Australia failed to lower gun-related injuries and deaths, many studies have proven.

A major gun restriction or outright ban would create a major illegal gun smuggling operation, which is the LAST thing we need.

Anyone who is hellbent on committing such a crime WILL get a gun. The anti-gun nuts need to realize this.

The people who do this sort of thing are sociopaths and loaners. Almost ALWAYS. You need criminal connections to get your hands on illegal guns, you can't just make a Craigslist post that says "Looking for AR-15 to commit mass murder cash in hand"

[ScarecrowBoat]

Originally Posted by Nate4641

well the ideal situation wouldnt just be handing out loaded pistols to every teacher and having them stuff it in their desk with everything else. If you actually sat down and thought logically about it you could create a very reasonable system to arm teachers. The more important thing is teaching them how to handle the weapons, but proper training for something like that with people like that would take a lot of time.

Just typing this I thought about a system where the teachers could have an electronic lock box under their desk where the principal would have to remotely unlock them for the teachers to use. This would prevent accidental discharged and mis-handling issues. It wouldn't be too hard to create a system like this with today's technology either. Schools are getting so sophisticated with security technology now something like this would just be an add on.

This is quite literally the stupidest idea I have ever heard. If this were the case, psychos don't even need to walk into the school with a weapon since there is already one in every classroom. I'm going to be a bit sexist here, but most elementary school teachers are women and most probably have no experience with stressful situations or guns and would be rather easy to disarm. I have a family member in 4th grade and most of the teachers at her school are young women around 5'4" and under 140lbs. Most deranged psychos could probably take three on at once while their poorly aimed shots bounce around the concrete walls hitting the kids they are trying to protect.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat

teachers at her school are young women around 5'4" and under 140lbs.

not in Nebraska....

i'd say closer to 170.....

[andybui82]

Originally Posted by ChaneRZ

http://news.yahoo.com/ind-man-47-gun...164928349.html

CEDAR LAKE, Ind. (AP) — A northern Indiana man who allegedly threatened to "kill as many people as he could" at an elementary school near his home was arrested by officers who later found 47 guns and ammunition hidden throughout his home.

happened in washington too..its crazy.

[mlifxs]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

One thing that is disturbing to me is the culture of violence we live in today.

Our parents grew up with "Leave it to Beaver" and "Father Knows Best" and now our children are growing up with "Dexter" et al.

+1

Guns have been around in our country for it's entire history. When I was in school (60's) such an act (the school shooting) was literally unthinkable.

What's changed in our country since then? I don't want to relieve the shooter of responsibility but there are too many dark influences in our society accessible through media ( tv, internet etc).