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      12-17-2012, 08:35 AM   #133
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those who intend to inflict harm will get there hands on guns regardless of any law.
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      12-17-2012, 09:11 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjk9671 View Post
This is the problem. That will never happen. Unfortunately, all more gun control will do is keep guns out of law abiding citizens hands.

Criminals don't care about the laws.
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Originally Posted by AKAFP View Post
those who intend to inflict harm will get there hands on guns regardless of any law.
I agree that the problem cannot be solved simply by having tighter gun control legislation. Although I do think even this one change would still prevent some guns falling into the wrong hands.

What is clear is that the status quo is not acceptable. I believe that gun control laws are part of the solution but also there has to be action in terms of enforcement. This would involve 2 elements. Firstly, removing guns from the streets that are already out there. I acknowledge that this is a HUGE task but there are US troops fighting the 'war on terror' (another topic for another day!) yet there is no war on guns in America. Secondly, there is a need for greater enforcement to prevent more guns coming into the country and falling into wrong hands. I.e. border checks etc.

I think there should also be an immediate gun amnesty. I'm not naive to think that this will solve the problem but as I say there needs to many approaches to gun crime in America and every possible action should be adopted. Here in the U.K. there have been times where amnesties have recovered 40,000 weapons!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...0-weapons.html
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      12-17-2012, 09:21 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
I agree that the problem cannot be solved simply by having tighter gun control legislation. Although I do think even this one change would still prevent some guns falling into the wrong hands.

What is clear is that the status quo is not acceptable. I believe that gun control laws are part of the solution but also there has to be action in terms of enforcement. This would involve 2 elements. Firstly, removing guns from the streets that are already out there. I acknowledge that this is a HUGE task but there are US troops fighting the 'war on terror' (another topic for another day!) yet there is no war on guns in America. Secondly, there is a need for greater enforcement to prevent more guns coming into the country and falling into wrong hands. I.e. border checks etc.

I think there should also be an immediate gun amnesty. I'm not naive to think that this will solve the problem but as I say there needs to many approaches to gun crime in America and every possible action should be adopted. Here in the U.K. there have been times where amnesties have recovered 40,000 weapons!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...0-weapons.html

A ''war on guns'' would practically result in a civil war in this country most of our citizens simply would not give up their arms, keep in mind that there are currently around two hundred and thirty million guns in the USA!
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      12-17-2012, 09:39 AM   #136
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my wife just texted me and said she was a wreck when she dropped the kids off at school today. Imagine that was a common occurence today.
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      12-17-2012, 10:47 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
I agree that the problem cannot be solved simply by having tighter gun control legislation. Although I do think even this one change would still prevent some guns falling into the wrong hands.

What is clear is that the status quo is not acceptable. I believe that gun control laws are part of the solution but also there has to be action in terms of enforcement. This would involve 2 elements. Firstly, removing guns from the streets that are already out there. I acknowledge that this is a HUGE task but there are US troops fighting the 'war on terror' (another topic for another day!) yet there is no war on guns in America. Secondly, there is a need for greater enforcement to prevent more guns coming into the country and falling into wrong hands. I.e. border checks etc.

I think there should also be an immediate gun amnesty. I'm not naive to think that this will solve the problem but as I say there needs to many approaches to gun crime in America and every possible action should be adopted. Here in the U.K. there have been times where amnesties have recovered 40,000 weapons!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...0-weapons.html
For a gun 'amnesty' you would first have to make us legal gun owners criminals by making our guns illegal.

We have had 'buy backs' in high crime areas where if someone surrenders a gun they are given some money, these programs are not effective, mostly broken/junk guns are surrendered.
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      12-17-2012, 11:36 AM   #138
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If we are going to make guns illegal to keep them off the streets we might as well go ahead and make meth and heroin illegal as well.

And i think in this case they need to look at school security. Why were the doors not locked to keep outside traffic outside? Where was any type of police officer or school security? It's just really sad that this lunatic was able to walk in and kill innocent children and teachers so easily.
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      12-17-2012, 12:08 PM   #139
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here's another example of how a good guy with a gun can deter a gunman from killing mass amounts of people.

if the shooter wouldn't have seen this guy with a gun, he could have picked off 5, 10, 15, 25 more people.....


http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-ma...183593571.html


Quote:
PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.

"I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.

The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.

"He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."

The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.

"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.

Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

The gunman was dead, but not before taking two innocent lives with him and taking the innocence of everyone else.

"I don't ever want to see anyone that way ever," said Meli. "It just bothers me."
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      12-17-2012, 12:34 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMX328 View Post
Gun bans in England and Australia failed to lower gun-related injuries and deaths, many studies have proven.

A major gun restriction or outright ban would create a major illegal gun smuggling operation, which is the LAST thing we need.

Anyone who is hellbent on committing such a crime WILL get a gun. The anti-gun nuts need to realize this.
The people who do this sort of thing are sociopaths and loaners. Almost ALWAYS. You need criminal connections to get your hands on illegal guns, you can't just make a Craigslist post that says "Looking for AR-15 to commit mass murder cash in hand"
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Last edited by ScarecrowBoat; 12-17-2012 at 12:41 PM.
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      12-17-2012, 12:40 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate4641 View Post
well the ideal situation wouldnt just be handing out loaded pistols to every teacher and having them stuff it in their desk with everything else. If you actually sat down and thought logically about it you could create a very reasonable system to arm teachers. The more important thing is teaching them how to handle the weapons, but proper training for something like that with people like that would take a lot of time.

Just typing this I thought about a system where the teachers could have an electronic lock box under their desk where the principal would have to remotely unlock them for the teachers to use. This would prevent accidental discharged and mis-handling issues. It wouldn't be too hard to create a system like this with today's technology either. Schools are getting so sophisticated with security technology now something like this would just be an add on.
This is quite literally the stupidest idea I have ever heard. If this were the case, psychos don't even need to walk into the school with a weapon since there is already one in every classroom. I'm going to be a bit sexist here, but most elementary school teachers are women and most probably have no experience with stressful situations or guns and would be rather easy to disarm. I have a family member in 4th grade and most of the teachers at her school are young women around 5'4" and under 140lbs. Most deranged psychos could probably take three on at once while their poorly aimed shots bounce around the concrete walls hitting the kids they are trying to protect.
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Last edited by ScarecrowBoat; 12-17-2012 at 12:45 PM.
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      12-17-2012, 01:35 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat View Post
teachers at her school are young women around 5'4" and under 140lbs.
not in Nebraska....

i'd say closer to 170.....
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      12-17-2012, 01:51 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaneRZ View Post
http://news.yahoo.com/ind-man-47-gun...164928349.html

CEDAR LAKE, Ind. (AP) — A northern Indiana man who allegedly threatened to "kill as many people as he could" at an elementary school near his home was arrested by officers who later found 47 guns and ammunition hidden throughout his home.
happened in washington too..its crazy.
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      12-17-2012, 02:05 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
One thing that is disturbing to me is the culture of violence we live in today.

Our parents grew up with "Leave it to Beaver" and "Father Knows Best" and now our children are growing up with "Dexter" et al.
+1

Guns have been around in our country for it's entire history. When I was in school (60's) such an act (the school shooting) was literally unthinkable.

What's changed in our country since then? I don't want to relieve the shooter of responsibility but there are too many dark influences in our society accessible through media ( tv, internet etc).
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      12-17-2012, 02:30 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat View Post
This is quite literally the stupidest idea I have ever heard. If this were the case, psychos don't even need to walk into the school with a weapon since there is already one in every classroom. I'm going to be a bit sexist here, but most elementary school teachers are women and most probably have no experience with stressful situations or guns and would be rather easy to disarm. I have a family member in 4th grade and most of the teachers at her school are young women around 5'4" and under 140lbs. Most deranged psychos could probably take three on at once while their poorly aimed shots bounce around the concrete walls hitting the kids they are trying to protect.
That was the stupidest idea you have ever heard? You must not get out much. We could give the teachers party poppers to startle the shooters and at the same time have pieces of confetti thrown at them! That is dumber. Its just an idea, instead of knocking down ideas, come up with some and contribute.
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      12-17-2012, 02:30 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofthedemo View Post
Here's a little fact for you buddy, you don't have to kill someone in order to use a gun for self defense!



The police carry guns, but guess what, the vast majority of police officers are able to use their guns to gain control over a violent situation without killing anyone, and the same goes for armed citizens (see videos below), how many people do you think the police kill a year? Does it mean that they do not need guns if the number is low? Your building a straw man argument here, guns are needed for protection the amount of people killed by guns does not accurately reflect the amount of lives saved by them, once again see the videos below, that stuff happens all of the time in the US!


There have been many, many,many, more than 213 incidents in which a firearm saved a life in this country, or thwarted a crime in that time period (at least thousands). The beauty of a firearm is that it often diffuses or ,neutralizes a situation, say a guy pulls a knife on you- at the mere sight of your gun the situation is typically over, and there is no need to even shoot, simply presenting it will diffuse the situation.

And yes I have used my gun in self defense before, I didn't have to shoot and I held off three attackers until the police arrived, my gun saved my life. It's like they say the police are only minutes away when you only have seconds to spare.

Why don't you tell some of these people in the video's below some of your opinions regarding firearms!

I could go on listing these all day, this kind of thing happens all of the time here, and I'm glad we have the ability to protect ourselves![/b][/size]
Perhaps this one was covered earlier....
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/10/col...ngs/index.html
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      12-17-2012, 03:25 PM   #147
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Excellent post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofthedemo View Post
Here's a little fact for you buddy, you don't have to kill someone in order to use a gun for self defense!

The police carry guns, but guess what, the vast majority of police officers are able to use their guns to gain control over a violent situation without killing anyone, and the same goes for armed citizens (see videos below), how many people do you think the police kill a year? Does it mean that they do not need guns if the number is low? Your building a straw man argument here, guns are needed for protection the amount of people killed by guns does not accurately reflect the amount of lives saved by them, once again see the videos below, that stuff happens all of the time in the US!

There have been many, many,many, more than 213 incidents in which a firearm saved a life in this country, or thwarted a crime in that time period (at least thousands). The beauty of a firearm is that it often diffuses or ,neutralizes a situation, say a guy pulls a knife on you- at the mere sight of your gun the situation is typically over, and there is no need to even shoot, simply presenting it will diffuse the situation.

And yes I have used my gun in self defense before, I didn't have to shoot and I held off three attackers until the police arrived, my gun saved my life. It's like they say the police are only minutes away when you only have seconds to spare.

Why don't you tell some of these people in the video's below some of your opinions regarding firearms!

I could go on listing these all day, this kind of thing happens all of the time here, and I'm glad we have the ability to protect ourselves!
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      12-17-2012, 04:53 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontrelli View Post
Excellent post
Thank you!
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      12-17-2012, 05:17 PM   #149
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We really aught to have a law against mass shootings.
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      12-17-2012, 06:03 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat View Post
Most gun related injuries and deaths are due to accidental discharges. You would really be more comfortable with teachers all across the country being armed, leaving literally hundreds of thousands of guns just lying around schools? What on Earth could possibly be going through your head to reach that conclusion.
I'm not suggesting all teachers. I could see the dis-spare you have in my opinion. Maybe a solution could be that teachers who already have there CHL could be allowed to carry within school premises.
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      12-17-2012, 06:22 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s4sammy View Post
I'm not suggesting all teachers. I could see the dis-spare you have in my opinion. Maybe a solution could be that teachers who already have there CHL could be allowed to carry within school premises.
How about train teaches in self defense with less than lethal weapons? Pepper spray, stun guns, etc... Although in this case, stun guns wouldn't help too much when the perp is wearing body armor.
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      12-17-2012, 06:34 PM   #152
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The problem with non lethal weapons is range.
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      12-17-2012, 06:36 PM   #153
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What about having a police officer in every school? I remember there being a police officer at the high school I went. Didn't see him often, but I assumed he was there full time. Instead of having teachers carry guns in schools, have a police officer on-site who is trained in these situations since it's their sole duty to protect.
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      12-17-2012, 06:37 PM   #154
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I bet pepper spray would have made a serious difference in this situation, this nut job was not a hardened veteran
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