26 people were killed in a shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary

[MP0WER]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Totally agree! We are talking about the most important thing in the world - our kids.

This likely won't be well received but this mindset is partly responsible for these kids growing up to be so disturbed.

For many, their kids are the most important thing in their life. More important than their spouse and even their own lives. They do everything in their power to make sure their kids don't get hurt. To make sure they are treated fairly. They make sure they have the best of everything. The most trendy clothes, the latest electronics, the best games and smartphones by age 10. They fight their battles, blame others for their disobedience and chastise anyone who has a cross thing to say about their child.

Then the child goes off to college and find life to be more difficult with out their parents protection and assistance. They find out that life isn't fair and typically other students and professors teach them this lesson. Then they get a job and find out just how unfair life can be.....

Some adjust, some turn to drugs, some turn to alcohol. Some get depressed and are inconsolable. Some of those begin wishing bad on those around them while others wish for a position of power over those, who in their mind, have created the unfair situation they are in. After all their parents always told them it was someone else's fault. And as said before, some get to a point where they want to see the world burn, just before they exit it.

I'm not saying our children aren't valuable and worth of protection. They most certainly are our future and deserve protection. But what some many parents do in the name of protection is actually a disservice. People from my generation and earlier knew from an early age that life wasn't fair. Children of today find this out at a much later age when their lives are so much more complicated. This late realization destroys their expectations and it seems that some can't handle that. Most that can't handle it only fire one shot to end it. For a small percentage of others, they don't want to go alone.

[R Grubba Balls]

Originally Posted by Litos

here's how fucked up it is:

here in the united states, we spend money to protect our money at banks - money that can be replaced.

...but we can't spend money to protect our children from being murdered in cold blood !??!

the ugly truth: some people are a net negative to society. picture someone who's on welfare, doesn't do shit for anyone. how much is that worth?

and in some places, people will kill you for trying to steal from them...

[R Grubba Balls]

Originally Posted by Bingobimmer

Prayers go out to all the victims' families. Really do not know what kind of sick, twisted individual does this. Unlike most people I do not see a clear solution. I think a full ban of guns leaves all non-criminals at risk. A lot of people want to ban "scary guns". However, the problem lies with the people who posses the guns. We need a better system for selling guns. In addition the argument that crazy people will find a way to kill without guns has its flaws as well. A knife (or a similar weapon) can kill a person, but a gun can kill multiple people very fast. I'm not trying to come off pro or anti gun so hopefully I don't upset anyone...

i like non-lethal guns: rubber bullets, taser shotguns etc. they should be as easy to buy as a baseball bat.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by MP0WER

This likely won't be well received but this mindset is partly responsible for these kids growing up to be so disturbed.

For many, their kids are the most important thing in their life. More important than their spouse and even their own lives. They do everything in their power to make sure their kids don't get hurt. To make sure they are treated fairly. They make sure they have the best of everything. The most trendy clothes, the latest electronics, the best games and smartphones by age 10. They fight their battles, blame others for their disobedience and chastise anyone who has a cross thing to say about their child.

Then the child goes off to college and find life to be more difficult with out their parents protection and assistance. They find out that life isn't fair and typically other students and professors teach them this lesson. Then they get a job and find out just how unfair life can be.....

Some adjust, some turn to drugs, some turn to alcohol. Some get depressed and are inconsolable. Some of those begin wishing bad on those around them while others wish for a position of power over those, who in their mind, have created the unfair situation they are in. After all their parents always told them it was someone else's fault. And as said before, some get to a point where they want to see the world burn, just before they exit it.

I'm not saying our children aren't valuable and worth of protection. They most certainly are our future and deserve protection. But what some many parents do in the name of protection is actually a disservice. People from my generation and earlier knew from an early age that life wasn't fair. Children of today find this out at a much later age when their lives are so much more complicated. This late realization destroys their expectations and it seems that some can't handle that. Most that can't handle it only fire one shot to end it. For a small percentage of others, they don't want to go alone.

You know exactly what I meant... I was talking about the safety of our children, and this should be our highest priority. Your rant about parenting has nothing to do with it. I find it appalling that you decide to find a very benign quote and argue about it for the sake of arguing; on a thread like this. Thanks for reminding me why I don't post in the off-topic section that often. I'm a parent of a little girl, and yes, this girl is the most important thing to me.

I'm out.

[schoy]

Originally Posted by MP0WER

This likely won't be well received but this mindset is partly responsible for these kids growing up to be so disturbed.

For many, their kids are the most important thing in their life. More important than their spouse and even their own lives. They do everything in their power to make sure their kids don't get hurt. To make sure they are treated fairly. They make sure they have the best of everything. The most trendy clothes, the latest electronics, the best games and smartphones by age 10. They fight their battles, blame others for their disobedience and chastise anyone who has a cross thing to say about their child.

Then the child goes off to college and find life to be more difficult with out their parents protection and assistance. They find out that life isn't fair and typically other students and professors teach them this lesson. Then they get a job and find out just how unfair life can be.....

Some adjust, some turn to drugs, some turn to alcohol. Some get depressed and are inconsolable. Some of those begin wishing bad on those around them while others wish for a position of power over those, who in their mind, have created the unfair situation they are in. After all their parents always told them it was someone else's fault. And as said before, some get to a point where they want to see the world burn, just before they exit it.

I'm not saying our children aren't valuable and worth of protection. They most certainly are our future and deserve protection. But what some many parents do in the name of protection is actually a disservice. People from my generation and earlier knew from an early age that life wasn't fair. Children of today find this out at a much later age when their lives are so much more complicated. This late realization destroys their expectations and it seems that some can't handle that. Most that can't handle it only fire one shot to end it. For a small percentage of others, they don't want to go alone.

While your comment might make sense in a different context (e.g. parents' coddling spoiled brats), it makes absolutely no sense in this context (murderous killer amongst innocent, defenseless children). Either you're arguing for the sake of arguing or you're completely disassociated from the reality of the issue at hand.

[1slowbmw]

should forks be banned to because they aid in making people obese?

if someone is set on killing people for whatever reason they will find a way to do it. Cavemen used to kill huge animals with sharpened sticks. What difference would a mental health check do? ok maybe John Doe cant buy the gun but Jane can buy it for him. Or John can steal it from someone he knows or break into a house he knows has guns. Also what would an armed school security guard do? by the time the guard took his gun out anyone that already has their gun out, cocked, and ready will pick him off in a second. The other suggestion is armed teachers... have you seen elementary school teachers? You think Little Mrs. Whatever is going to pull a glock out from under her desk and start accurately shooting at a gunman who has nothing to lose? This also puts a scared teacher who most likely cant handle a gun not having a shootout in a classroom still full of kids. Implementing armed teachers also now means that anyone planning on doing something like this now knows that they have to take out the teacher first.

Banning guns would be completely useless as well as a constitutional violation. If guns were all of a sudden banned, there still hundreds of thousands of guns out there anyway. A gun can also be made fairly easily by any good machinist. Ive seen machinists build their own 50 cal snipper riffles.

[1slowbmw]

like others have said, if a gun wasnt available he could have easily made napalm at home or some other incendiary weapon and dont equal damage

[MP0WER]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

You know exactly what I meant... I was talking about the safety of our children, and this should be our highest priority. Your rant about parenting has nothing to do with it. I find it appalling that you decide to find a very benign quote and argue about it for the sake of arguing; on a thread like this. Thanks for reminding me why I don't post in the off-topic section that often. I'm a parent of a little girl, and yes, this girl is the most important thing to me.

I'm out.

My apologies for offending you. My post wasn't directed at you personally. I found myself thinking what what could possibly cause that kid to do such a horrible thing. Going back to the Aurora kid and the fact that most of these mass killings involve mentally unstable college age kids brought me to these thoughts. Your post was an innocent comment from a loving parent. I didn't intend to make it out to be anything more and didn't do a good enough job separating the two.

Originally Posted by schoy

While your comment might make sense in a different context (e.g. parents' coddling spoiled brats), it makes absolutely no sense in this context (murderous killer amongst innocent, defenseless children). Either you're arguing for the sake of arguing or you're completely disassociated from the reality of the issue at hand.

I believe this thread is about a deeply disturbed kid who chose to murder several innocent people, mostly children. Have i been mistaken? What i made is a general statement that could very well apply to the kid who took it upon himself to kill other innocent kids. It seems to me that it fits squarely in this thread. Prior to Friday, the perpetrator was also somebody's kid. He wasn't a murderous killer until Friday. There is no argument in my comment. It's a theory that could be at the root of these mass shootings.

I know it's a trying time and emotions are still running high, so i can see how you guys could misconstrue my comments.

[Pontrelli]

Originally Posted by schoy

While your comment might make sense in a different context (e.g. parents' coddling spoiled brats), it makes absolutely no sense in this context (murderous killer amongst innocent, defenseless children). Either you're arguing for the sake of arguing or you're completely disassociated from the reality of the issue at hand.

Actually I see the merit of his argument, if I understood it correctly he was profiling the gunman and how he might have did what he did..my feeling is kids now adays are subjected to media overload and violence, they are comfortable and bored, and rarely engage their imagination..they have a bewidering amount of information to process, they often lose their innocence early..(10 is like the new 20), so some turn to drugs, become depressed, anxious etc..

The days of when kids were just kids..and played outside are over..now you have media zombied out children (video games, internet, chat room..on an on) when you add to that depression, anxiety or inabilty to adjust or "fit in"...they grow up and blow a gasket..then something unfortunate like this results..

Guns have been around for hundreds years yet this is a modern media era problem. Not a coincidence.

[schoy]

^ perhaps I misunderstood the intent of MPower's post, but he was responding to Team Plutonium's post #109. Nothing in post #109 would lead anyone to reasonably believe that TP was referring to the gunman; clearly TP was referring to the victims. And then the tone of MP's post seem to be essentially criticizing TP's position that our children are the "most important thing in the world" and that by prioritizing our kids, we loving parents are contributing to the scum of the world. And even then, the argument is likely flawed; I would think that children whose parents neglect them have a much higher probability of becoming mentally ill (and sociopathically so) than children whose parents are overprotective.

[silvergray545]

Originally Posted by Foodle

There are so many variables in this situation I don't know how you can make this claim. Maybe you should put a few more conditions on your BS statement

As a clear counter example, 10 children in the Dunblane massacre (extremely similar incident in the UK) were shot by a pistol and wounded but not killed. But maybe they weren't exactly 10 yards away or less.

Originally Posted by Litos

of course he hit every target - they described the killings as up close shots - he wasn't sniping kids from 50 yards.

Litos clearly supported my point with his post.

I can't believe I have to describe this to you in detail. I guess just to get it through your thick skull. As Litos stated, the killings were up close. Meaning he was able to shoot his "targets" exactly where he wanted to with little effort. Perfect shot placement = higher chance of fatality. I included an estimated distance from the shooter to his target in my previous post for a reason. In such a short distance and in a room that is completely closed from the elements, there is nothing that will stop or slow the bullet down. The faster the bullet travels = the more damage is done to its target upon impact.

Please remove "Ballistics Expert" from your resume. Call of Duty doesn't count.

Oh, and to counter your stupid ass "counter example"...I'm pretty sure you forgot to include one important fact from the Dunblane massacre. I'm not sure how this could have slipped your mind, but I'll post it for you. According to Wikipedia, 15 children were killed in that shooting. You didn't counter shit with that example.

Please don't respond to this. I don't want to keep arguing about whether a .223 round is more deadly to a 6 year old child or a full grown adult. This is just a waste of my time.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by Foodle

Link to studies please?

And this might be because the rate of gun-related injuries was already so low in those countries.

Nope.

Handgun releated gun-crime has sprialled out of control in the UK over the last 10 years, despite the total ban on all handguns after the Dunblane school shooting in 1996.

This article is from 2008, and it's not got any better since.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...every-day.html

[JoeyO]

Originally Posted by Foodle

Sorry, but blaming "the devil" or "evil" for this is a cheap cop out. He was a person. A very disturbed person that decided to do this terrible thing. But to say that there was some kind of metaphysical force that made him different from other people is simply unrealistic. Many many people have done very evil things in past (e.g., genocide all across the world). Under the right circumstances ordinary people can do evil things too. The capacity to do "evil" acts is a part of human nature. Some people with mental problems may be more prone to do them, but don't delude yourself, that your neighbor isn't capable of doing something evil.

It's just an expression. I'm not a religious person. Haven't been to church in over five years.

What I meant is there are mentally insane people, and then there are absolute evil people with no conscience. I feel the killer falls into the later category. Often in these type of tragedies people say the killer was a victim of his surroundings or he was mentally ill. That's not true all the time. Just like there are some really really good people in this world, likewise, there are some really really bad people in this world. People with no morals. People who enjoy inflicting pain on others. That's all I was saying, while venting.

[DiavelM3]

Originally Posted by MP0WER

My apologies for offending you. My post wasn't directed at you personally. I found myself thinking what what could possibly cause that kid to do such a horrible thing. Going back to the Aurora kid and the fact that most of these mass killings involve mentally unstable college age kids brought me to these thoughts. Your post was an innocent comment from a loving parent. I didn't intend to make it out to be anything more and didn't do a good enough job separating the two.



I believe this thread is about a deeply disturbed kid who chose to murder several innocent people, mostly children. Have i been mistaken? What i made is a general statement that could very well apply to the kid who took it upon himself to kill other innocent kids. It seems to me that it fits squarely in this thread. Prior to Friday, the perpetrator was also somebody's kid. He wasn't a murderous killer until Friday. There is no argument in my comment. It's a theory that could be at the root of these mass shootings.

I know it's a trying time and emotions are still running high, so i can see how you guys could misconstrue my comments.

Mpower, I get what you're saying and I agree

RIP to those who were lost in this tragedy

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by MP0WER

My apologies for offending you. My post wasn't directed at you personally. I found myself thinking what what could possibly cause that kid to do such a horrible thing. Going back to the Aurora kid and the fact that most of these mass killings involve mentally unstable college age kids brought me to these thoughts. Your post was an innocent comment from a loving parent. I didn't intend to make it out to be anything more and didn't do a good enough job separating the two.

Thank you. I really appreciate that post.

[champtank]

Prayers go out to all of the victim's family...what a sad day...

[Foodle]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

Nope.

Handgun releated gun-crime has sprialled out of control in the UK over the last 10 years, despite the total ban on all handguns after the Dunblane school shooting in 1996.

This article is from 2008, and it's not got any better since.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...every-day.html

Nope. Learn to read. 4% rise in a year of gun related crimes (not deaths) is not "spiraling out if control".

Rate of gun death in the US is 9/100000. Rate in the UK is 36 times less at .25/100000.

[ChaneRZ]

http://news.yahoo.com/ind-man-47-gun...164928349.html

CEDAR LAKE, Ind. (AP) — A northern Indiana man who allegedly threatened to "kill as many people as he could" at an elementary school near his home was arrested by officers who later found 47 guns and ammunition hidden throughout his home.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by Foodle

Nope. Learn to read.

Pardon me for breathing.

Originally Posted by Foodle

4% rise in a year of gun related crimes (not deaths) is not "spiraling out if control".

It is for the UK.

Which was the point I was making. Despite the knee jerk reactions after just two serious events, and the media demonisation of anyone that has even the remotest interest in sport shooting (which is all it ever was in the UK) and as such the complete ban on all form of self loading rifle and any type of handgun.... the general public is less safe now that it was 30 years ago.

Guns arn't the problem, society of today is the problem.

Originally Posted by Foodle

Rate of gun death in the US is 9/100000. Rate in the UK is 36 times less at .25/100000.

Pointless comparison.

[EINSER M]

We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.

- Ronald Reagan

[Pontrelli]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

Guns arn't the problem, society of today is the problem.

+1

[Litos]

sorry guys, i had to post this. i'm just glad that the future of our country lies in the hands of this ballsy kid <3



http://news.yahoo.com/staffers-haile...083934401.html

Originally Posted by Yahoo

In a classroom, teacher Kaitlin Roig barricaded her 15 students into a tiny bathroom, pulled a bookshelf across the door and locked it. She told the kids to be "absolutely quiet."

"I said, 'There are bad guys out there now. We need to wait for the good guys,'" she told ABC News.

One student claimed to know karate. "It's OK. I'll lead the way out," the student said.