26 people were killed in a shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary

[Foodle]

Originally Posted by silvergray545

At point blank range, it doesn't matter what kind of gun is used. They're all deadly.

1) Who said anything about just point blank

2) Even at close range, the type of weapon, caliber of bullet, and type of bullet make a huge difference. You're telling me that getting shot by a .22 pistol round is the same as getting hit by a .50 rifle round? Many people have survived getting shot by pistol rounds, even in the head or multiple shots (ask Gabby Giffords or 50 Cent). Take a .50 rifle round anywhere but an extremity and you're likely going to the morgue. Even a rifle round of a similar caliber (e.g., .223 like in this case) will cause much more damage than a pistol.

[MP0WER]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

So fucked up. I have a such a hard time wrapping my head around this. It just breaks my heart.

This. So sad.

Originally Posted by samchoi604

Schools can barely afford staffing teachers. Do you know the cost of putting armed guards at every school or public facility in the country? Also, you can't just have one guard standing at the front door, the psycho can easily blow the guard's brains out first before continuing on with his rampage.

Gun nuts always propose unrealistic solutions: "Fix the mental illness in society!" Gosh really? Finding these people is like needle in a haystack. Without actually committing crimes the police can't do jack shit to them. And these psychos aren't going to turn themselves in for mental check up either.

The only feasible solution is putting a ban on this crap.

A ban on what? the lack of attention to kids from their parents?

Originally Posted by Pontrelli

So what exactly is your point? You dont think he could have unleashed just as much carnage with only a pair of hand guns and multiple magazines?

You are trying to be sensationalitic posting a pic of the rifle, a .223 is a very common cailber rifle, small projectile not very high velocity.

The .223 is actually a supersonic round with most versions having over 3000ft/sec muzzle velocity. Despite it's small size it does an incredible amount of damage. But yeah, because the pic he posted looks like all the fully automatic weapons we see in the movies people assume it's the same thing. He could have used several other semi-auto hunting rifles to do the same damage or more.

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Yes, I served as a 'Gebirgsjaeger' for 4 years.

I think having an armed guard at a school would make a lot more sense than arming teachers. I know someone mentioned that their isn't a budget for it, well, let's cut some other useless shit and make it fit the budget. I think our children deserve it. Welcome to our new reality.

Yeah, that's a good start. And probably more easily fit in the budget than we may think. If the federal gov could cut some wasted funds and allocate them to the school boards.

Was thinking today that maybe ballistic doors on the classrooms with those super strong magnetic locks that could be all locked down with the press of a button may help. But of course the windows would have to be bullet proof as well and if the perp was already in a classroom when the lock down occurs then everyone in that room dies....

[Foodle]

Originally Posted by kevinbahnz

god damm so many different reports . first i heard that there were .223 rounds and later on in the day they said that he only used 2 9mm pistols.

Coroner said everyone was killed by .223 rifle rounds (with the possible exception of the shooter himself). That seems to settle the issue of what weapon was used.

[Foodle]

Originally Posted by MP0WER

Was thinking today that maybe ballistic doors on the classrooms with those super strong magnetic locks that could be all locked down with the press of a button may help. But of course the windows would have to be bullet proof as well and if the perp was already in a classroom when the lock down occurs then everyone in that room dies....

I don't think you need anything super fancy here. Steel door. Small window with hurricane glass. Strong deadbolt that any teacher or child can lock from the inside. No need for fancy electronics and centralized control which could be prone to malfunction (e.g., it would be bad if the system locked everyone in during a fire).

[MP0WER]

Originally Posted by Foodle

I don't think you need anything super fancy here. Steel door. Small window with hurricane glass. Strong deadbolt that any teacher or child can lock from the inside. No need for fancy electronics and centralized control which could be prone to malfunction (e.g., it would be bad if the system locked everyone in during a fire).

yeah, there would have to be an override if the fire alarm went off, which is an easy way to get the doors open. Like you said it's far easier to train the teachers and kids to lock the doors and hide on the floor out of site of windows in the event of a school wide alarm. Not unlike fire drills.

[R Grubba Balls]

this is relevant, srsly.

what happened in vietnam?

[Pontrelli]

Originally Posted by MP0WER

The .223 is actually a supersonic round with most versions having over 3000ft/sec muzzle velocity. Despite it's small size it does an incredible amount of damage. But yeah, because the pic he posted looks like all the fully automatic weapons we see in the movies people assume it's the same thing. He could have used several other semi-auto hunting rifles to do the same damage or more.

Well almost every rifle cartridge has a supersonic MV. Rifle Ballistics

But I think we are missing the point here that the victims were children, not adults wearing bullet proof vests..so this argument of handguns vs rifle seems moot. If anything I believe hand guns are more deadly because they are easy to conceal

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Pontrelli

Banning guns will do NOTHING to prevent sociopaths from unleashing havoc..so keep your anti-gun rhoteric confined to Canada where it belongs

Spoken like a true Texan. Ok buddy. Have fun with all your gun related violence.

We're not "anti-gun". But I don't expect you to know that. You're American...so I don't expect you to know much about anything outside of America, after all, that's the whole world isn't it - or everything that matters?

I think all factors need to be considered as well, not as easy as just banning guns - for the record, guns are certainly not banned here. But there is an interesting correlation between our system and the number of shootings at a school, and the American system and their number of shootings at a school. On the other hand, America has a lot more people, and thus a higher percentage of the "crazies"...which also needs to be considered.

My heart goes out to all those affected by this tragedy - its terrible, its senseless, and action needs to be taken to start to prevent these type of incidents.

[kingofthedemo]

Originally Posted by samchoi604

Schools can barely afford staffing teachers. Do you know the cost of putting armed guards at every school or public facility in the country? Also, you can't just have one guard standing at the front door, the psycho can easily blow the guard's brains out first before continuing on with his rampage.

Gun nuts always propose unrealistic solutions: "Fix the mental illness in society!" Gosh really? Finding these people is like needle in a haystack. Without actually committing crimes the police can't do jack shit to them. And these psychos aren't going to turn themselves in for mental check up either.

The only feasible solution is putting a ban on this crap.

Having one armed guard is typically sufficient for bank security, and I think the same could apply to schools, the money could be allocated from some of the government fat in other budgets. It would cost millions is government man hours to change the current gun legislation anyway, why not just put that money towards improving security instead.

You foreigners do not understand the importance of gun rights in this country it was the basis of our ability to fight for our freedom in the revolutionary war, and it is a tradition and a right that we cherish to this day, the right to arm and protect ourselves, we should't have to give this up, because of the wackos who seek harm.

[silvergray545]

Originally Posted by Foodle

1) Who said anything about just point blank

2) Even at close range, the type of weapon, caliber of bullet, and type of bullet make a huge difference. You're telling me that getting shot by a .22 pistol round is the same as getting hit by a .50 rifle round? Many people have survived getting shot by pistol rounds, even in the head or multiple shots (ask Gabby Giffords or 50 Cent). Take a .50 rifle round anywhere but an extremity and you're likely going to the morgue. Even a rifle round of a similar caliber (e.g., .223 like in this case) will cause much more damage than a pistol.

I don't care what size caliber was used, shooting a 6 year old child will have devastating effects. Gabby Giffords and 50 Cent were full grown adults when they were shot. The shooter's "targets" were no more than 10 yards away considering he was shooting inside a classroom. Point blank or 10 yards away, any gun will be lethal to a child.

[silvergray545]

Originally Posted by Pontrelli

Well almost every rifle cartridge has a supersonic MV. Rifle Ballistics

But I think we are missing the point here that the victims were children, not adults wearing bullet proof vests..so this argument of handguns vs rifle seems moot. If anything I believe hand guns are more deadly because they are easy to conceal

Bingo.

[MP0WER]

Originally Posted by Pontrelli

Well almost every rifle cartridge has a supersonic MV. Rifle Ballistics

But I think we are missing the point here that the victims were children, not adults wearing bullet proof vests..so this argument of handguns vs rifle seems moot. If anything I believe hand guns are more deadly because they are easy to conceal

Yes, but it seemed that you were comparing this round to pistol rounds which are not supersonic. No worries.

When talking about damage a rifle round always wins. But when talking about danger, your right about the pistol.

[JoeyO]

The incident occurred about 25 miles from where I work. Newtown is one of the more affluent towns in the state. Families move there to settle down and put their kids in the excellent school system. Things like this don't usually occur there.

The information is still sketchy coming in, but I heard the killer tried to purchase a gun about one week earlier but he ran into some hurdles. So that means this whole thing was premeditated for quite some time. He wasn't sick. He was the devil in disguise. He was 100% pure evil. I hope he rots in hell, where he belongs.

By the way, some of you we're talking about injuries. The state examiner says each victim received more than one bullet to the body. He also said they probably didn't suffer very long. I think that paints a picture right there. By the way, there were only three people hospitalized. That jerk hit his mark every time. I heard his mom(the one he killed) had often taken him along to target practice, so he was not new to firearms.

[Foodle]

Originally Posted by silvergray545

I don't care what size caliber was used, shooting a 6 year old child will have devastating effects. Gabby Giffords and 50 Cent were full grown adults when they were shot. The shooter's "targets" were no more than 10 yards away considering he was shooting inside a classroom. Point blank or 10 yards away, any gun will be lethal to a child.

There are so many variables in this situation I don't know how you can make this claim. Maybe you should put a few more conditions on your BS statement

As a clear counter example, 10 children in the Dunblane massacre (extremely similar incident in the UK) were shot by a pistol and wounded but not killed. But maybe they weren't exactly 10 yards away or less.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by samchoi604

Schools can barely afford staffing teachers. Do you know the cost of putting armed guards at every school or public facility in the country?

so losing 20 kids in less than 15 minutes isn't worth the cost !?!?

that funding shouldn't come from schools, it should come from somewhere else.....

[dtwyim]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

his mom(the one he killed) had often taken him along to target practice, so he was not new to firearms.

So ironic.

Such a tragedy, innocent children killed. Countless more traumatized. Teachers lost their lives. All around Christmas time.

I hope all those involved or affected will eventually recover in some way and manage to move past all this.

[Foodle]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

He wasn't sick. He was the devil in disguise. He was 100% pure evil. I hope he rots in hell, where he belongs.

Sorry, but blaming "the devil" or "evil" for this is a cheap cop out. He was a person. A very disturbed person that decided to do this terrible thing. But to say that there was some kind of metaphysical force that made him different from other people is simply unrealistic. Many many people have done very evil things in past (e.g., genocide all across the world). Under the right circumstances ordinary people can do evil things too. The capacity to do "evil" acts is a part of human nature. Some people with mental problems may be more prone to do them, but don't delude yourself, that your neighbor isn't capable of doing something evil.

[Pontrelli]

Originally Posted by samchoi604

Schools can barely afford staffing teachers. Do you know the cost of putting armed guards at every school or public facility in the country?

+1

If we can spend billions on our miltary to protect us abroad..we can spend any amount to protect our children in their schools.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

That jerk hit his mark every time. I heard his mom(the one he killed) had often taken him along to target practice, so he was not new to firearms.

of course he hit every target - they described the killings as up close shots - he wasn't sniping kids from 50 yards.

without security at the school he was basically able to walk up to anyone in the school and dispose of them......

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Pontrelli

+1

If we can spend billions on our miltary to protect us abroad..we can spend any amount to protect our children in their schools.

here's how fucked up it is:

here in the united states, we spend money to protect our money at banks - money that can be replaced.

...but we can't spend money to protect our children from being murdered in cold blood !??!

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by Pontrelli

+1

If we can spend billions on our miltary to protect us abroad..we can spend any amount to protect our children in their schools.

Totally agree! We are talking about the most important thing in the world - our kids.

[Bingobimmer]

Prayers go out to all the victims' families. Really do not know what kind of sick, twisted individual does this. Unlike most people I do not see a clear solution. I think a full ban of guns leaves all non-criminals at risk. A lot of people want to ban "scary guns". However, the problem lies with the people who posses the guns. We need a better system for selling guns. In addition the argument that crazy people will find a way to kill without guns has its flaws as well. A knife (or a similar weapon) can kill a person, but a gun can kill multiple people very fast. I'm not trying to come off pro or anti gun so hopefully I don't upset anyone...