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      12-15-2012, 03:02 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accordingi2ime View Post
Everyone is trying to blame this to one single thing and looking for a single solution. Pro-gun people are so fixed on defending gun they are failing to see that part of the problem is gun. Anti-gun people are so quick to blame this on guns that they don’t see that there are other problems. Part of the problem is gun, part of the problem is mental health system, part of the problem is school and security, part of the problem is justice system…. There is no single solution to this. Sometimes there is no solution. Maybe this is best we could do. People need to put their egos, agendas, and politics aside and review each and every single element that might have contributed to this. This is too much of a tragedy to let partiality keep us from finding a fix.
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      12-15-2012, 03:26 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Templar View Post
Why do you keep talking about assault rifles? This was done with a couple of handguns... Care to explain to me what your version of an assault rifle is?

FWIW, I'm not agreeing with arming teachers to the teeth, but disarming everyone isn't the answer either. How many guns did Timothy McVeigh use to kill 150+ people and injure almost 600?
Couldn't agree more.

Military, LEOs, and citizens with class 3 ATF license are for the most part the only ones who can LEGALLY posses assault weapons. To me assault weapons = fully automatic fire or burst fire, capable firearms.

People need to realize that these "assault rifles" portrayed in the media are just semi-automatic rifles with higher capacity mags then handguns but IMO a semi-auto rifle and semi-auto handgun can kill people at the same rate if both have an equal amount of bullets. There was a ban on these "assault weapons" in place before and studies have shown it did not make a significant difference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal...lt_Weapons_Ban

The other poster who posted that this is combination of multiple problems and not just one solution can ever prevent tragedies like this from reoccurring or something worse is absolutely correct. We must look at EVERY angle not just one.
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      12-15-2012, 04:55 PM   #69
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now they're saying that the killer used a rifle and that "everyone was hit more than once", up close...



http://news.yahoo.com/conn-school-vi...205207737.html
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      12-15-2012, 05:24 PM   #70
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Gun bans in England and Australia failed to lower gun-related injuries and deaths, many studies have proven.

A major gun restriction or outright ban would create a major illegal gun smuggling operation, which is the LAST thing we need.

Anyone who is hellbent on committing such a crime WILL get a gun. The anti-gun nuts need to realize this.
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      12-15-2012, 07:16 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
The reality is that it is fucking simple to fix. It is way too easy for anybody with mental health problems (or not) to buy guns and assault rifles.

To say that teachers should be armed is so stupid it blows my mind! Yeah, let's give elementary school teachers handguns to stop a crazy fuck with an assault rifle. How do we train them? A couple of hours of safety courses on the gun range?

I'm a trained soldier and let me tell you there is a big fucking difference between firing a gun in a controlled environment, and shooting under enormous stress... even with intensive training. Anybody who suggests that has no clue. This only works if you have trained extensively that you start doing things automatically.

To say that there is no simple solution is living in a fantasy land. The solution is gun control. Will it solve everything? No. But it is a start. You can do far more damage with an assault rifle than with some home made weapon. And give me one good reason why anybody outside the military or law enforcement should own an assault rifle?

I'm not opposed to guns, they serve a purpose, I used them, but they have no place in untrained hands. And again, I'm not talking about a simple concealed carry course.
Arming teachers probably isn't realistic, but why not just mandating that there must be an armed guard or police officer at every school.

I saw in another post you said you were previously in the German army right?


If we protected our schools more like we do our banks this stuff would not occur, but taking gun rights from law abiding citizens is not the solution, gun crime would not cease to occur if that were the case. The Mexican drug cartel would simply have a thriving new market in the US for a new contraband product, in firearms. Drugs are illegal yet easy to find, if guns were illegal it would be no different.
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Last edited by kingofthedemo; 12-15-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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      12-15-2012, 07:24 PM   #72
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This was the rifle wielded by the gunman


http://www.businessinsider.com/cnn-t...nipers-2012-12

Anymore morons want to comment on how he only used a fucking handgun?
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      12-15-2012, 07:34 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samchoi604 View Post
This was the rifle wielded by the gunman


http://www.businessinsider.com/cnn-t...nipers-2012-12

Anymore morons want to comment on how he only used a fucking handgun?
The initial reports claimed pistols were only used, then they updated the report today.
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      12-15-2012, 07:37 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samchoi604 View Post
This was the rifle wielded by the gunman


http://www.businessinsider.com/cnn-t...nipers-2012-12

Anymore morons want to comment on how he only used a fucking handgun?
Relax, yesterday it was reported that he only had two pistols. Not like any of us were there to actually know.
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      12-15-2012, 07:45 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofthedemo View Post
Arming teachers probably isn't realistic, but why not just mandating that there must be an armed guard or police officer at every school.

I saw in another post you said you were previously in the German army right?


If we protected our schools more like we do our banks this stuff would not occur, but taking gun rights from law abiding citizens is not the solution, gun crime would not cease to occur if that were the case. The Mexican drug cartel would simply have a thriving new market in the US for a new contraband product, in firearms. Drugs are illegal yet easy to find, if guns were illegal it would be no different.
Schools can barely afford staffing teachers. Do you know the cost of putting armed guards at every school or public facility in the country? Also, you can't just have one guard standing at the front door, the psycho can easily blow the guard's brains out first before continuing on with his rampage.

Gun nuts always propose unrealistic solutions: "Fix the mental illness in society!" Gosh really? Finding these people is like needle in a haystack. Without actually committing crimes the police can't do jack shit to them. And these psychos aren't going to turn themselves in for mental check up either.

The only feasible solution is putting a ban on this crap.
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      12-15-2012, 07:49 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philthy84 View Post
but IMO a semi-auto rifle and semi-auto handgun can kill people at the same rate if both have an equal amount of bullets.
What? A rifle has longer range, greater accuracy, higher muzzle velocity, and greater penetrating power/damage. A typical police ballistic vest will stop a pistol bullet, but not a rifle bullet.
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      12-15-2012, 07:50 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by JMX328 View Post
Gun bans in England and Australia failed to lower gun-related injuries and deaths, many studies have proven.
Link to studies please?

And this might be because the rate of gun-related injuries was already so low in those countries.
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      12-15-2012, 07:52 PM   #78
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god damm so many different reports . first i heard that there were .223 rounds and later on in the day they said that he only used 2 9mm pistols.
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      12-15-2012, 07:53 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samchoi604 View Post
Schools can barely afford staffing teachers. Do you know the cost of putting armed guards at every school or public facility in the country? Also, you can't just have one guard standing at the front door, the psycho can easily blow the guard's brains out first before continuing on with his rampage.

Gun nuts always propose unrealistic solutions: "Fix the mental illness in society!" Gosh really? Finding these people is like needle in a haystack. Without actually committing crimes the police can't do jack shit to them. And these psychos aren't going to turn themselves in for mental check up either.

The only feasible solution is putting a ban on this crap.
Why don't we ban cigarettes while we're at it? Those kill roughly 440,000 people per year. How about reintroducing prohibition of alcohol? Drugs are already illegal but they still kill hundreds of thousands of people per year.

Each of those things kill more people per year than guns do. Banning guns is not the answer.
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      12-15-2012, 07:56 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foodle View Post
What? A rifle has longer range, greater accuracy, higher muzzle velocity, and greater penetrating power/damage. A typical police ballistic vest will stop a pistol bullet, but not a rifle bullet.
At point blank range, it doesn't matter what kind of gun is used. They're all deadly.
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      12-15-2012, 08:43 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samchoi604 View Post
This was the rifle wielded by the gunman

Anymore morons want to comment on how he only used a fucking handgun?
So what exactly is your point? You dont think he could have unleashed just as much carnage with only a pair of hand guns and multiple magazines?

You are trying to be sensationalitic posting a pic of the rifle, a .223 is a very common cailber rifle, small projectile not very high velocity.
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      12-15-2012, 08:52 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samchoi604 View Post
Schools can barely afford staffing teachers. Do you know the cost of putting armed guards at every school or public facility in the country? Also, you can't just have one guard standing at the front door, the psycho can easily blow the guard's brains out first before continuing on with his rampage.
No one said securing schools with metal detectors and armed gurard entry points would be easy or cheap but its a more feasible option than banning guns..which even if banned legally are never going to go away. The same thing is done in all our courts and there has not been a serious shooting incident in any court since I can remember.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samchoi604 View Post
Gun nuts always propose unrealistic solutions: "Fix the mental illness in society!" Gosh really? Finding these people is like needle in a haystack. Without actually committing crimes the police can't do jack shit to them. And these psychos aren't going to turn themselves in for mental check up either.

The only feasible solution is putting a ban on this crap.
Another ridiculous comment coming from someone who has no vested interest in what happens in our country. Unrecognized mental illness is the "real" issue. Banning guns will do NOTHING to prevent sociopaths from unleashing havoc..so keep your anti-gun rhoteric confined to Canada where it belongs
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      12-15-2012, 09:16 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by silvergray545 View Post
At point blank range, it doesn't matter what kind of gun is used. They're all deadly.
1) Who said anything about just point blank

2) Even at close range, the type of weapon, caliber of bullet, and type of bullet make a huge difference. You're telling me that getting shot by a .22 pistol round is the same as getting hit by a .50 rifle round? Many people have survived getting shot by pistol rounds, even in the head or multiple shots (ask Gabby Giffords or 50 Cent). Take a .50 rifle round anywhere but an extremity and you're likely going to the morgue. Even a rifle round of a similar caliber (e.g., .223 like in this case) will cause much more damage than a pistol.

Last edited by Foodle; 12-15-2012 at 09:29 PM.
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      12-15-2012, 09:19 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
So fucked up. I have a such a hard time wrapping my head around this. It just breaks my heart.
This. So sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samchoi604 View Post
Schools can barely afford staffing teachers. Do you know the cost of putting armed guards at every school or public facility in the country? Also, you can't just have one guard standing at the front door, the psycho can easily blow the guard's brains out first before continuing on with his rampage.

Gun nuts always propose unrealistic solutions: "Fix the mental illness in society!" Gosh really? Finding these people is like needle in a haystack. Without actually committing crimes the police can't do jack shit to them. And these psychos aren't going to turn themselves in for mental check up either.

The only feasible solution is putting a ban on this crap.
A ban on what? the lack of attention to kids from their parents?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontrelli View Post
So what exactly is your point? You dont think he could have unleashed just as much carnage with only a pair of hand guns and multiple magazines?

You are trying to be sensationalitic posting a pic of the rifle, a .223 is a very common cailber rifle, small projectile not very high velocity.
The .223 is actually a supersonic round with most versions having over 3000ft/sec muzzle velocity. Despite it's small size it does an incredible amount of damage. But yeah, because the pic he posted looks like all the fully automatic weapons we see in the movies people assume it's the same thing. He could have used several other semi-auto hunting rifles to do the same damage or more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Yes, I served as a 'Gebirgsjaeger' for 4 years.

I think having an armed guard at a school would make a lot more sense than arming teachers. I know someone mentioned that their isn't a budget for it, well, let's cut some other useless shit and make it fit the budget. I think our children deserve it. Welcome to our new reality.
Yeah, that's a good start. And probably more easily fit in the budget than we may think. If the federal gov could cut some wasted funds and allocate them to the school boards.

Was thinking today that maybe ballistic doors on the classrooms with those super strong magnetic locks that could be all locked down with the press of a button may help. But of course the windows would have to be bullet proof as well and if the perp was already in a classroom when the lock down occurs then everyone in that room dies....
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      12-15-2012, 09:19 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by kevinbahnz View Post
god damm so many different reports . first i heard that there were .223 rounds and later on in the day they said that he only used 2 9mm pistols.
Coroner said everyone was killed by .223 rifle rounds (with the possible exception of the shooter himself). That seems to settle the issue of what weapon was used.
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      12-15-2012, 09:23 PM   #86
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Was thinking today that maybe ballistic doors on the classrooms with those super strong magnetic locks that could be all locked down with the press of a button may help. But of course the windows would have to be bullet proof as well and if the perp was already in a classroom when the lock down occurs then everyone in that room dies....
I don't think you need anything super fancy here. Steel door. Small window with hurricane glass. Strong deadbolt that any teacher or child can lock from the inside. No need for fancy electronics and centralized control which could be prone to malfunction (e.g., it would be bad if the system locked everyone in during a fire).
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      12-15-2012, 09:25 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foodle View Post
I don't think you need anything super fancy here. Steel door. Small window with hurricane glass. Strong deadbolt that any teacher or child can lock from the inside. No need for fancy electronics and centralized control which could be prone to malfunction (e.g., it would be bad if the system locked everyone in during a fire).
yeah, there would have to be an override if the fire alarm went off, which is an easy way to get the doors open. Like you said it's far easier to train the teachers and kids to lock the doors and hide on the floor out of site of windows in the event of a school wide alarm. Not unlike fire drills.
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      12-15-2012, 09:26 PM   #88
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this is relevant, srsly.

what happened in vietnam?
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