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      08-12-2013, 03:22 PM   #1
哇靠M3
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dilemma on getting sleeve kit, some inputs?

Just wanted to ask for some opinions as I always find this forum to be helpful.

Car Specs:
  • 2009 M3 w/ around 30k miles on OEM suspensions (zero tweaks) - 65% highway driving
  • currently on 18x9.5 ET20 / 18x10.5 ET25 - 265/35/18 Front & 285/35/18
  • driving mostly between San Francisco and San Mateo area.

So here's the dilemma. I've been reading that because Kw Sleeve are only spring + bump stop setup, the OEM shocks will soon give out because of the spring rates. With 30k miles on the car already... Is it a bad thing to consider a Sleeve setup as the shocks were aged already. Does that mean that my OEM shocks will give out even sooner when I put the sleeve setup on my car?

What are your thoughts?

Should, I pass on the sleeve and go V3 (i'm not a track junkie)? Thanks for your help.
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      08-12-2013, 04:48 PM   #2
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I'd stay stock.
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      08-12-2013, 04:52 PM   #3
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really what you arre wanting to do with the car. I use my car for track time and just spirited driving. I am running KW V3, and will be running something more track dedicated. If you are looking to just go low, might try some springs, but if your looking for low then go with a coilovers setup, but I think with your miles you will be fine with the sleeves
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      08-13-2013, 07:44 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 哇靠M3 View Post
Just wanted to ask for some opinions as I always find this forum to be helpful.

Car Specs:
  • 2009 M3 w/ around 30k miles on OEM suspensions (zero tweaks) - 65% highway driving
  • currently on 18x9.5 ET20 / 18x10.5 ET25 - 265/35/18 Front & 285/35/18
  • driving mostly between San Francisco and San Mateo area.

So here's the dilemma. I've been reading that because Kw Sleeve are only spring + bump stop setup, the OEM shocks will soon give out because of the spring rates. With 30k miles on the car already... Is it a bad thing to consider a Sleeve setup as the shocks were aged already. Does that mean that my OEM shocks will give out even sooner when I put the sleeve setup on my car?

What are your thoughts?

Should, I pass on the sleeve and go V3 (i'm not a track junkie)? Thanks for your help.
the problems with the sleeve kit have far less to do with damaging your shocks and far more to do with the fact that it is a half assed solution to dropping your car. it is basically all about aesthetics (which is fine), but will cause your car to handle and ride worse. every wrench turn lower that you make will cause these problems to get worse.

if you want the car to ride well and handle well going lower, you have two options. 1 would be a dinan setup, which is OK because it doesn't drop the car much, and it does allow for more damper travel before hitting the bump stops which helps. 2 would be a high end coilover kit with high level dampers, akin to an ohlins RT setup which costs 3k.

outside of those options, I wouldn't recommend anything else, and would stay stock.
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      08-13-2013, 09:12 AM   #5
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Anytime you lower your car, you will lessen the life of your shocks. Instead of spending more than you have to on the KW sleeve kit, I'd recommend Swift springs. If you're not going to be tracking (and even if you were) they give the car a nice drop and handle great. Also, the ride is very much stock like. All in all, i'm VERY happy with my Swift purchase.

IMO, there's no reason to get a full coilover kit unless youre gonna be tracking your car.
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      08-13-2013, 10:02 AM   #6
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I installed a sleeve kit several months ago. Its basically stock feeling. with the exception you dont slam the car. I lowered mine about 1" all around and drives great. I opted out to using e36 m3 pump stops in the front with milled top mount. but if you use the KW bump stop you will be fine, also I used dinan rear shock mount. The key is, its not meant to be slammed. I drive in SF several time no issues.
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      08-13-2013, 10:31 AM   #7
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I would not lower much or go much stiffer on stock shocks. They are not shortened internally, so you lose travel and they are not valved for stiffer springs. I run the regular H&R Springs. Slight drop, which is fine. No need for sleeves, which are more expensive. If I was going to spend more, I'd go for coilovers. A few companies make them if you decide to go that way because you want significant lowering or a much stiffer suspension.
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      08-13-2013, 12:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vastano View Post
Anytime you lower your car, you will lessen the life of your shocks. Instead of spending more than you have to on the KW sleeve kit, I'd recommend Swift springs. If you're not going to be tracking (and even if you were) they give the car a nice drop and handle great. Also, the ride is very much stock like. All in all, i'm VERY happy with my Swift purchase.

IMO, there's no reason to get a full coilover kit unless youre gonna be tracking your car.
Can you comment a little more about your Swift Spring experience?
Did you use E36 bump stops? Also how does each EDC mode feel compared to stock?
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      08-13-2013, 12:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlrid3r View Post
I installed a sleeve kit several months ago. Its basically stock feeling. with the exception you dont slam the car. I lowered mine about 1" all around and drives great. I opted out to using e36 m3 pump stops in the front with milled top mount. but if you use the KW bump stop you will be fine, also I used dinan rear shock mount. The key is, its not meant to be slammed. I drive in SF several time no issues.
I have this same set up, with the exception of no Dinan rear mounts.

MRF shaved upper support guides and E36 bumpstops to replace the KW ones. Been running this for the past 1.5 years, daily driven car and I have ZERO complaints. Far cheaper option then running coilovers at this point. I installed the springs at 54k miles and put 12k on them so far (I dont drive alot, i know).

I went this route as 1. I am still CPO and 2. I did not want to drop the cash on coilovers yet. Once warranty is up (although it does not cover suspension) and the shocks eventually blow, i will get coilovers.
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      08-13-2013, 12:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italyix View Post
I have this same set up, with the exception of no Dinan rear mounts.

MRF shaved upper support guides and E36 bumpstops to replace the KW ones. Been running this for the past 1.5 years, daily driven car and I have ZERO complaints. Far cheaper option then running coilovers at this point. I installed the springs at 54k miles and put 12k on them so far (I dont drive alot, i know).

I went this route as 1. I am still CPO and 2. I did not want to drop the cash on coilovers yet. Once warranty is up (although it does not cover suspension) and the shocks eventually blow, i will get coilovers.

I just didn't want to lose EDC. same thing here once they blow, coiloves for me. the ride now is too soft but happy with it.
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      08-13-2013, 03:50 PM   #11
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You wont lose ECD, I have it and the springs make it more responsive. However, expect a more pronounced bouncier ride. High Speed bump/rebound with KW springs and EDC shocks is not the greatest.
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      08-13-2013, 04:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vastano View Post
IMO, there's no reason to get a full coilover kit unless youre gonna be tracking your car.
I wouldn't necessarily say that. My KW V3's and now Ohlin RT's both provide a much more supple ride quality than stock ever did and I had EDC. Quality shocks will do a better job absorbing bumps while still being firm. One thing I noticed when going from my stock EDC setup to V3's was how my car would feel like it was in sport mode, but absorbed bumps in the road so much better than stock. Tires would stay planted to the ground giving traction on uneven roads instead of bouncing around.
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      08-19-2013, 05:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I wouldn't necessarily say that. My KW V3's and now Ohlin RT's both provide a much more supple ride quality than stock ever did and I had EDC. Quality shocks will do a better job absorbing bumps while still being firm. One thing I noticed when going from my stock EDC setup to V3's was how my car would feel like it was in sport mode, but absorbed bumps in the road so much better than stock. Tires would stay planted to the ground giving traction on uneven roads instead of bouncing around.
Are the RT the road and track version? I was under the impression that they were really setup for the street but if its good enough for you on your car, it should be good enough for me right?
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      08-19-2013, 05:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Are the RT the road and track version? I was under the impression that they were really setup for the street but if its good enough for you on your car, it should be good enough for me right?
Biggest problem i see with the RT (Road & track) Ohlins is the fact that they need to be serviced every 15k miles.
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      08-19-2013, 05:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I wouldn't necessarily say that. My KW V3's and now Ohlin RT's both provide a much more supple ride quality than stock ever did and I had EDC. Quality shocks will do a better job absorbing bumps while still being firm. One thing I noticed when going from my stock EDC setup to V3's was how my car would feel like it was in sport mode, but absorbed bumps in the road so much better than stock. Tires would stay planted to the ground giving traction on uneven roads instead of bouncing around.
I think that has to do with spring rate also. Once you get to a higher rate bumps get choppy again unless you are damping way down on the street.
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      08-19-2013, 05:27 PM   #16
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Are the RT the road and track version? I was under the impression that they were really setup for the street but if its good enough for you on your car, it should be good enough for me right?
Unfortunately, I've never driven a car on the track with properly set up track suspension. I'm still trying to learn about suspension and how all the adjustments affect the car on and off the track. The RT's single adjustment makes it much easier for me to play around with and see how it affects my car. The thing is, you can spend 8 grand on suspension, but its useless if you don't know how to set it up correctly for the car and your driving style.

I'm the type that learns best from my own experiences and mistakes. Which is why I had a supercharger on my car for 10k miles and now its gone. I find the Ohlin RT's to be much better than stock and my V3's, but I'm still trying to optimize the setup for the track. I think my issue at this point is not enough camber in the rear. I've had instructors ride with me and watch me from the flag stations and say I'm just not putting power down out of the corners well enough and its because I have no grip powering out. My rear tires are all worn on the outside so that seems to be the case.

Sorry for the long reply. My point is, I like the Ohlins a lot on and off the track, but I definitely don't have things dialed in quite yet. Setting up suspension properly is hard.
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      08-19-2013, 05:31 PM   #17
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Im planning on trying to learn on stock suspension and then moving to kw cs. But ive also been told kw3 with camber plates and linear springs are good enough. But at that point isnt it the same price as clubsports?

Edit: warranty is advantageous on the kw3 setup.
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      08-19-2013, 05:35 PM   #18
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Singles like ohlins are fairly easy to set up. I have mine dialed in for the 2 tracks I use for the most part. I already wish I had doubles so I could adjust low speed compression as well. If you really get into it though you would need varied spring rates for each track and possibly alignment as well.
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      08-19-2013, 06:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 哇靠M3 View Post

So here's the dilemma. I've been reading that because Kw Sleeve are only spring + bump stop setup, the OEM shocks will soon give out because of the spring rates. With 30k miles on the car already... Is it a bad thing to consider a Sleeve setup as the shocks were aged already. Does that mean that my OEM shocks will give out even sooner when I put the sleeve setup on my car?

What are your thoughts?

Should, I pass on the sleeve and go V3 (i'm not a track junkie)? Thanks for your help.
I had the KW Sleeve kit and then went with the V3. The V3 is a lot better. The sleeve kit is a band-aid just providing a lower ride height. The stock shocks are terrible in terms of rebound no matter what setting you put it on. You end up with a underdamped and bouncy ride. And as you mentioned, it accelerates shock wear. Any lowering on stock shocks will.

If you get the KW sleeve, you can put it on the highest setting which is what I used. It'll lower the car about 1 inch in front and 0.5 inch in back. But if that's the case, you may as well get the Swift springs which cost less and give you the same lowering. Swift was not available when I got the KW Sleeve kit.

If you can spend the money get the KW V3. You can tune the suspension to ride comfortably if you want and you get quality shocks and matched springs with it. Any kind of lowering springs on stock shocks is not a balanced setup.
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      08-19-2013, 07:05 PM   #20
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I had the KW Sleeve kit and then went with the V3. The V3 is a lot better. The sleeve kit is a band-aid just providing a lower ride height. The stock shocks are terrible in terms of rebound no matter what setting you put it on. You end up with a underdamped and bouncy ride. And as you mentioned, it accelerates shock wear. Any lowering on stock shocks will.

If you get the KW sleeve, you can put it on the highest setting which is what I used. It'll lower the car about 1 inch in front and 0.5 inch in back. But if that's the case, you may as well get the Swift springs which cost less and give you the same lowering. Swift was not available when I got the KW Sleeve kit.

If you can spend the money get the KW V3. You can tune the suspension to ride comfortably if you want and you get quality shocks and matched springs with it. Any kind of lowering springs on stock shocks is not a balanced setup.
After years of playing with aftermarket springs, I feel that stock is best. If you're gap obsessed, I'd go the coilover route...especially for serious tracking.
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      08-19-2013, 07:57 PM   #21
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A sleeve over kit is pointless as long as you don't fall for the coilover is better marketing pitch. The main advantage of a coilover is to provide height adjustability at each corner to optimize the weight distribution of the car on the suspension.

So if you are retaining EDC I would bet that your car has most of its interior. If it has most of its interior then you do not need height adjustability.
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      08-20-2013, 01:12 PM   #22
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So if you are retaining EDC I would bet that your car has most of its interior. If it has most of its interior then you do not need height adjustability.
No body neeeds height adjustability, they just want it
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