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      12-11-2012, 11:47 PM   #23
BMRLVR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilia@IND View Post
65 Liters!! I'm sure we'd only need to chop a little bit of your firewall to fit that engine in your E90. See you next spring for the swap?



Thanks for sharing, that is some seriously cool stuff. Do my eyes deceive me, or is that wrist pin retaining circlip nearly the size of the S65 bore?
I won't be in for the swap any time soon....... Signing the documents for the new house with the builder tomorrow....... The cars will have to take a back seat for a little while!!!!

Yes you are right about the wrist pin circlip, it is roughly 2.5" in diameter!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROB_S2K View Post
OMG those valves are huge. Those big trucks fascinate me. Thanks for sharing man, its not everyday you get to see photos of this stuff.
They fascinate me too, and I work on them everyday!!! Happy to post the photos!!!

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Originally Posted by GIdriver View Post
Speechless!! That's one BIG engine...
Actually we have bigger! The CAT 3524B is 117L displacement and 4.875L per cylinder and we have them in our 797's

MTU makes an 8000 series for stationary and marine applications....... is is 8L per cylinder!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by crabman View Post
I dig this stuff. I have an EMD for main propulsion on my boat and its interesting to see it come apart at in-frame even though I've seen it many times.
EMD makes great engines, and two strokes are great in boats!?

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Originally Posted by Twinbo View Post
Damn I fell for it. Great pics though
Thanks!!!

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Originally Posted by VCMpower View Post
BEEFCAKE!! That would give the torque that the S65 lacks
Might have to beef up the transmission........ This engine has approximately 6350 Lb/Ft of torque at 1900RPM. Not sure on the peak torque number, it is hard to find a dyno graph on larger diesel engines, they generally just list the peak HP numbers. I would assume the peak torque numbers to be between 8000 and 10000 Lb/Ft

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
HAHA...I got so excited when I saw the thread title.

Very cool photos. It's missing an Akrapovic Exhaust and some supercharger kit though....Do you have any 6-13mph times too?
It has dual 10" exhaust pipes and with 4 turbochargers I don't think it needs an SC!? Do You?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lopeolinda View Post
Thanks for sharing man, its not everyday you get to see photos of this stuff.
You are very welcome!!!

I have some more photos coming up of the new parts...... Stay tuned, I will be posting them later on tonight or tomorrow!
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      12-12-2012, 12:18 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
EMD makes great engines, and two strokes are great in boats!?
As you are probably aware but the other folks wouldn't be EMD stands for Elecro Motive Division, a part of GM. In other words train engines. These were adapted to marine use. At the time my boat was built in 1981 these mostly found their way into tugs where the quicker torque build up was considered a major plus compared to its contemporary 4 stroke Cats and the like. The max continuous duty rpm of 900 made for an easy reduction to the 300 or so shaft turns used by most low speed shaft/controllable pitch propeller (CP) boats at the time. Alphas and other slow turners were also adapted to marine use and found their way into tugs, the fishing industry, and other boats using CPs. Some did find their way onto fixed wheel boats but I've seen few of those.

Mine are 675 cubes per pack or just over 11 liters.
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      12-12-2012, 02:37 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabman View Post
As you are probably aware but the other folks wouldn't be EMD stands for Elecro Motive Division, a part of GM. In other words train engines. These were adapted to marine use. At the time my boat was built in 1981 these mostly found their way into tugs where the quicker torque build up was considered a major plus compared to its contemporary 4 stroke Cats and the like. The max continuous duty rpm of 900 made for an easy reduction to the 300 or so shaft turns used by most low speed shaft/controllable pitch propeller (CP) boats at the time. Alphas and other slow turners were also adapted to marine use and found their way into tugs, the fishing industry, and other boats using CPs. Some did find their way onto fixed wheel boats but I've seen few of those.

Mine are 675 cubes per pack or just over 11 liters.
Yes I am very well aware of EMD (Electro-motive Diesel) and the fact that they were the rail division of GM. Sadly enough, Cat bought EMD recently and idled one of their plants putting many Canadians out of work.

The big benefit to two stroke diesels is the fact that since they make a power stroke on every downstroke (as opposed to every second downstroke of a four stroke) they were able to spool turbos at a lower RPM than a comparably sized four stroke engine the torque did build much quicker indeed. Also since two strokes don't require as heavy of a flywheel they change speeds quicker (are more responsive to throttle inputs), something that is very desirable in certain applications. The main reason that two stroke diesels died out was due to emissions, however new technology is allowing them to run clean enough to possibly make a comeback in small and medium sized applications. The one thing that I love about two stroke diesels is the sound....... I love the sound they make...... it is AWESOME!
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      12-12-2012, 03:03 AM   #26
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Some new photos of the new parts waiting to be installed:


New cylinder head (valvetrain side)


New cylinder head with gaskets, o-rings, bearing, injector, fire ring, and carbon scraper


New cylinder head with gaskets, o-rings, bearing, injector, fire ring, and carbon scraper (from different angle)


New cylinder head (combution chamber side)


Intake ports


New Piston and rod assembly complete with fasteners and bearing


Piston crown


Piston and wristpin (with tape measure to show size)

Fasteners, engine breathers, pushrods and clamps


Main bearing cap


Main bearing cap

New cylinder liner (already installed in block)


Turbos, exhaust manifolds and exhaust piping (notice how the exhaust pipes criss cross from both banks to feed the turbos evenly......... BMW wasn't the first to think of a cross bank manifold set-up but were probably the first to use it for automotive)


Oil pan (about 8' long x 3' wide x 1.5' deep and holds about 60 gallons)


Oil Pan

I hope you all enjoy the photos
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Last edited by BMRLVR; 12-12-2012 at 11:41 AM.
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      12-12-2012, 04:12 AM   #27
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Stock Baffled Oil Pan!

mmm... Tonka Yellow
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      12-12-2012, 10:59 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Yes I am very well aware of EMD (Electro-motive Diesel) and the fact that they were the rail division of GM. Sadly enough, Cat bought EMD recently and idled one of their plants putting many Canadians out of work.

The big benefit to two stroke diesels is the fact that since they make a power stroke on every downstroke (as opposed to every second downstroke of a four stroke) they were able to spool turbos at a lower RPM than a comparably sized four stroke engine the torque did build much quicker indeed. Also since two strokes don't require as heavy of a flywheel they change speeds quicker (are more responsive to throttle inputs), something that is very desirable in certain applications. The main reason that two stroke diesels died out was due to emissions, however new technology is allowing them to run clean enough to possibly make a comeback in small and medium sized applications. The one thing that I love about two stroke diesels is the sound....... I love the sound they make...... it is AWESOME!
Yeah, throttle response isn't an issue with wheel boats because you're turning a wheel which slips and when boat handling you are always dialing in throttle or switching into reverse/forward well in advance of the boat doing either. The quicker power ramp is huge with tugs though. In fishing boats where boat handling isn't your business and serves only to get lines on/off the dock this isn't an advantage that would ever outweigh efficiency and these found their way there due to their ability to adapt to a low speed shaft/CP setup.

We're all kind of curious to see what kind of packs we'll be getting from Cat. The GE packs tended to be pretty reliable and the price was right. Hopefully that will continue going forward. BTW the price of fuel has now reached a point where repowering has reached payoff for us and EMD is looking to get their new electronic motors out on the water. We may be moving to one of these depending on what incentives they are willing to put up on the table. For us a huge factor is only NC has a presence in Dutch Harbor and throughout Alaska have more support available to throw at an engine than anyone else. Not a small consideration when every day by the dock represents 50k lost dollars and you're down waiting for someone like you to fly in.
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      12-12-2012, 11:33 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabman View Post
Yeah, throttle response isn't an issue with wheel boats because you're turning a wheel which slips and when boat handling you are always dialing in throttle or switching into reverse/forward well in advance of the boat doing either. The quicker power ramp is huge with tugs though. In fishing boats where boat handling isn't your business and serves only to get lines on/off the dock this isn't an advantage that would ever outweigh efficiency and these found their way there due to their ability to adapt to a low speed shaft/CP setup.

We're all kind of curious to see what kind of packs we'll be getting from Cat. The GE packs tended to be pretty reliable and the price was right. Hopefully that will continue going forward. BTW the price of fuel has now reached a point where repowering has reached payoff for us and EMD is looking to get their new electronic motors out on the water. We may be moving to one of these depending on what incentives they are willing to put up on the table. For us a huge factor is only NC has a presence in Dutch Harbor and throughout Alaska have more support available to throw at an engine than anyone else. Not a small consideration when every day by the dock represents 50k lost dollars and you're down waiting for someone like you to fly in.

Throttle response is definitely not a great concern in fishing boats, but is definitely of the utmost importance in a tug!!!

If I were you, I'd look to see what the cost and dealer support would be like if you repowered your boat with an MTU engine. In my experience the MTU's make the most hours between rebuilds and are the easiest to repair. They have a basically bulletproof fuel system that has been proven for 15 years now and was high pressure common rail years before anyone else even knew what high pressure common rail was! Also, MTU has a good dealer network through North America since MTU and Detroit Diesel has been the same company since 2000.

Cat engines are the worst my company has when it comes to making their benchmark hours. The 3500 series engines that power our trucks require rebuild at 9000 hours on average (compared to 20,000+ from MTU and Cummins), and along with that, they are much more difficult to repair and Cat parts are BIG DOLLARS$$$$. Cat does have a new engine called the C175 but it too is having some teething problems with it's fuel system however if you keep your fuel system clean and buy fuel from a reputable distributor it seems to be ok. The best thing about the C175 is that in our testing of it, it makes big power and torque! Cat also owns MAK which makes large displacement marine engines but I have no exposure to them and can't comment on their reliability or ease of maintenance.

Cummins is another option for you, for us they are very good, regularly making their benchmark hours, however compared to the MTU's they are not as easy to work on and don't stand up quite as well. Cummins does have a very good dealer support network though!!!

Best of luck finding the right engine to re-power your boat. Please keep in touch and let me know how you make out when you take the plunge, also I will help any way I can with technical stuff!

P.S.: Being as I am originally from Newfoundland and that many of my family members were fisherman, I have a soft spot in my heart for fisherman and the sea! The fishing industry is where both sides of my family came from and I am proud of my heritage!!!
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Last edited by BMRLVR; 12-12-2012 at 11:59 AM.
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      12-12-2012, 11:22 PM   #30
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Fuel isn't much of a concern for us, we centrifuge every drop then put the result through a series of filters all quadplexed to take care care of whatever the centrifuge doesn't nab. They are quadplexed of course we we can change them on the run. We burn about 130 gallons an hour so these kind of setups are needed even with relatively clean fuel. lol One of the advantages of a boat where you have room for the stuff.

Whichever engine we go with we will stick with a slow turner. Otherwise we have to move to a high speed shaft, new gear, new nozzle, new hub/blades, bearings including the thrust, many other assorted parts and the labor which would include cutting and welding the new shaft bearing beds and all manner of other work. It would act to nearly double the costs.
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      12-12-2012, 11:37 PM   #31
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MTU makes an 8000 series that is a slow turner.

The Cat 3600 series engines are very good in stationary applications and should be a good marine engine. It is also a slow turner.

I know you also mentioned a new EMD...... The modern ones are supposed to be excellent!!!
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      12-13-2012, 01:54 AM   #32
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Really Cool Photos! Thanks for posting!

Oil Pan is size of a coffin!


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      12-16-2012, 07:40 PM   #33
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New Photos added to the first post!
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      12-17-2012, 10:43 AM   #34
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So awesome... My 914G and 930G wheel loaders are babies compared to this beast. Love their equipment but hate their parts cost.. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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      12-17-2012, 08:15 PM   #35
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So awesome... My 914G and 930G wheel loaders are babies compared to this beast. Love their equipment but hate their parts cost.. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
They sure are Babies!!! I will try and get a photo of our 992Gs & 992Ks...... They are damn big loaders. I think our 992s for loading coke (petroleum coke, not the good stuff.... Ha Ha) have 28 yard buckets!
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