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      01-30-2014, 05:54 PM   #1
bigtracing
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Main bearing question

Looking for some help from engine builders or anyone that has some knowledge of this. I'm trying to place an order for the rest of the parts to rebuild my 08 s65 and I don't quite understand which main bearings I need. I thought I just need to order the based on the letters on the crank and the block but in this work shop manual it says I need special repair bearings marked with (R) on the back which through all the reading I have done on this have never heard of.
this is copy and pasted. my motor would fall under the first statement worn case worn crankshaft.

Important!

1.

Repair crankcase worn St.0 or 1 / crankshaft worn St.0.

If the bearing channel is opened and closed again after
engine operation, all main bearing shells must be
replaced with special repair bearing shells.

Altered settling behaviour at the crankcase.

Repair bearing shells are marked with an (R) on their
backs.

2.

Repair crankcase worn St.0 or 1 / crankshaft new St.0.

Repair bearing shells marked with (R) must be used.

The crankshaft comes as a set together with the bearing
shells. The bearing shells for the bedplate are provided in
accordance with the crankshaft classification. For the
crankcase bearing shells, the green bearing shells are
always provided. The half classification is retained.

3.

Repair crankcase new St.0 or 1 / crankshaft worn St.0.

The bearing shells also designated for initial installation
must be used.

The crankcase comes as a set together with the bearing
shells. The bearing shells for the crankcase are provided
in accordance with the crankcase classification. For the
bedplate, the green bearing shells are always provided.
The half classification is retained.

4.

Repair crankcase new St.0 or 1 / crankshaft new St.0.

The bearing shells also designated for initial installation
must be used.

The bearing shells provided with the crankcase must be
used.

The crankcase comes as a set together with the bearing
shells. The bearing shells for the crankcase are provided
in accordance with the crankcase classification. For the
bedplate, the green bearing shells are always provided.
The half classification is retained.



So I went and checked realoem.com:


01 AT-CRANKSHAFT WITH BEARING SHELLS 1 11210443639 $2,504.51

02 Bearing shell green 70,00MM(0) 4 10/2008 11217841489 ENDED

02 Bearing shell green 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841610 $31.17

02 Bearing shell yellow 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841609 $31.17

02 Bearing shell violet 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841611 $31.17

03 GUIDE-BEARING SHELL YELLOW 70,00MM(0) 1 10/2008 11217841498 ENDED

03 GUIDE-BEARING SHELL YELLOW 70,00MM(0) 1 11217841617 $114.39

03 GUIDE-BEARING SHELL GREEN 70,00MM(0) 1 11217841618 $114.39

03 Guide bearing shell violet 70,00MM(0) 1 11217841619 $114.39

04 Bearing shell yellow 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841605 $31.17

04 Bearing shell green 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841606 $31.17

04 Bearing shell violet 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841607 $31.17

05 Guide bearing shell violet 70,00MM(0) 1 10/2008 11217841495 ENDED

05 Guide bearing shell violet 70,00MM(0) 1 11217841615 $114.39

05 GUIDE-BEARING SHELL YELLOW 70,00MM(0) 1 11217841613 $114.39

05 GUIDE-BEARING SHELL GREEN 70,00MM(0) 1 11217841614 $114.39

06 Bearing shell, blue 53,00MM(0) 8 11247841703 $25.12

07 Bearing shell, red 53,00MM(0) 8 11247841702 $15.49

08 Dowel D=14,5MM 1 11211736881 $2.87


Nothing here about special repair bearings at all. I reall don't want to order form my local stealership because their prices are absolutely outrageous even for bmw dealers.




The next question I have or more of clarification.

The block that is being used has GGVVV which from what I can tell, tells you which upper shells it takes no. 2 on the diagram below. Which letter indicates the guide bearing no.3 below? I am assuming the last letter V but I don't want to end up with the wrong one.

The crank that is being used has GGGYG which should be the lower shells. so same question which are the letters in order as they are in the picture? or is there something maybe in BMW TIS that I can't find?

Thank you in advance for any help. Also if any vendor can beat online prices on all the gaskets and bearings needed for a rebuild that would be greatly appreciated send me a pm.

I added a carnage shot of my rod bearing failure for fun eventually I will get around to posting a full thread.
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      01-30-2014, 06:02 PM   #2
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Regular Guy has rebuilt many and can help you on specifics.
02 Bearing shell green 70,00MM(0) 4 10/2008 11217841489 ENDED

02 Bearing shell green 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841610 $31.17

02 Bearing shell yellow 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841609 $31.17

02 Bearing shell violet 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841611 $31.17

The bottom number is all that is available as the top numbers are no longer made. It makes it look like there are a bunch to choose from but that is not really the case.
Tough luck about the failure.
If the crank is already out I would get with RG about some that he has with built in extra clearance. Just a thought.
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      01-30-2014, 06:24 PM   #3
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I figured RG would be the one to talk to about this. The crank is out. the original plan was to have the crank resized to correct spec. But unfortunately at the moment I need to get this project done as possible and as cheap as possible considering my current financial position. Down the road im hoping to build a stroker motor.

The plan is to go to M1 0W-40 once rebuilt do you have any suggestions as fas as break in oil? I hear people go with rotella not sure what weight. But word is standard fill is TWS. thanks for your help
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      01-30-2014, 06:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtracing View Post
I figured RG would be the one to talk to about this. The crank is out. the original plan was to have the crank resized to correct spec. But unfortunately at the moment I need to get this project done as possible and as cheap as possible considering my current financial position. Down the road im hoping to build a stroker motor.

The plan is to go to M1 0W-40 once rebuilt do you have any suggestions as fas as break in oil? I hear people go with rotella not sure what weight. But word is standard fill is TWS. thanks for your help
If you want to go with a real break in oil it needs to be mineral base but there really is no need for it. It is all the same in the end it just takes longer on full synthetic. The rotella is good but not any better than running 0-40, just choose one and go with it.
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      01-30-2014, 09:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtracing
Looking for some help from engine builders or anyone that has some knowledge of this. I'm trying to place an order for the rest of the parts to rebuild my 08 s65 and I don't quite understand which main bearings I need. I thought I just need to order the based on the letters on the crank and the block but in this work shop manual it says I need special repair bearings marked with (R) on the back which through all the reading I have done on this have never heard of.
this is copy and pasted. my motor would fall under the first statement worn case worn crankshaft.

Important!

1.

Repair crankcase worn St.0 or 1 / crankshaft worn St.0.

If the bearing channel is opened and closed again after
engine operation, all main bearing shells must be
replaced with special repair bearing shells.

Altered settling behaviour at the crankcase.

Repair bearing shells are marked with an (R) on their
backs.

2.

Repair crankcase worn St.0 or 1 / crankshaft new St.0.

Repair bearing shells marked with (R) must be used.

The crankshaft comes as a set together with the bearing
shells. The bearing shells for the bedplate are provided in
accordance with the crankshaft classification. For the
crankcase bearing shells, the green bearing shells are
always provided. The half classification is retained.

3.

Repair crankcase new St.0 or 1 / crankshaft worn St.0.

The bearing shells also designated for initial installation
must be used.

The crankcase comes as a set together with the bearing
shells. The bearing shells for the crankcase are provided
in accordance with the crankcase classification. For the
bedplate, the green bearing shells are always provided.
The half classification is retained.

4.

Repair crankcase new St.0 or 1 / crankshaft new St.0.

The bearing shells also designated for initial installation
must be used.

The bearing shells provided with the crankcase must be
used.

The crankcase comes as a set together with the bearing
shells. The bearing shells for the crankcase are provided
in accordance with the crankcase classification. For the
bedplate, the green bearing shells are always provided.
The half classification is retained.



So I went and checked realoem.com:


01 AT-CRANKSHAFT WITH BEARING SHELLS 1 11210443639 $2,504.51

02 Bearing shell green 70,00MM(0) 4 10/2008 11217841489 ENDED

02 Bearing shell green 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841610 $31.17

02 Bearing shell yellow 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841609 $31.17

02 Bearing shell violet 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841611 $31.17

03 GUIDE-BEARING SHELL YELLOW 70,00MM(0) 1 10/2008 11217841498 ENDED

03 GUIDE-BEARING SHELL YELLOW 70,00MM(0) 1 11217841617 $114.39

03 GUIDE-BEARING SHELL GREEN 70,00MM(0) 1 11217841618 $114.39

03 Guide bearing shell violet 70,00MM(0) 1 11217841619 $114.39

04 Bearing shell yellow 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841605 $31.17

04 Bearing shell green 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841606 $31.17

04 Bearing shell violet 70,00MM(0) 4 11217841607 $31.17

05 Guide bearing shell violet 70,00MM(0) 1 10/2008 11217841495 ENDED

05 Guide bearing shell violet 70,00MM(0) 1 11217841615 $114.39

05 GUIDE-BEARING SHELL YELLOW 70,00MM(0) 1 11217841613 $114.39

05 GUIDE-BEARING SHELL GREEN 70,00MM(0) 1 11217841614 $114.39

06 Bearing shell, blue 53,00MM(0) 8 11247841703 $25.12

07 Bearing shell, red 53,00MM(0) 8 11247841702 $15.49

08 Dowel D=14,5MM 1 11211736881 $2.87


Nothing here about special repair bearings at all. I reall don't want to order form my local stealership because their prices are absolutely outrageous even for bmw dealers.




The next question I have or more of clarification.

The block that is being used has GGVVV which from what I can tell, tells you which upper shells it takes no. 2 on the diagram below. Which letter indicates the guide bearing no.3 below? I am assuming the last letter V but I don't want to end up with the wrong one.

The crank that is being used has GGGYG which should be the lower shells. so same question which are the letters in order as they are in the picture? or is there something maybe in BMW TIS that I can't find?

Thank you in advance for any help. Also if any vendor can beat online prices on all the gaskets and bearings needed for a rebuild that would be greatly appreciated send me a pm.

I added a carnage shot of my rod bearing failure for fun eventually I will get around to posting a full thread.
Where are you in CT ?
Shoot me a PM and I can help you as well.
RG knows his stuff !
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      01-31-2014, 01:27 AM   #6
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Ack, I'm on the spot now. I'm not an engine builder!

I've never heard of the rebuild bearings. They're only one set of part numbers in the catalog.

Most engines I've seen were GGGGG, but I did see one GGYGG. And yes, that one had a yellow shell in it.

The bearings are spec'd from the journal sizes. The specs are as follows:
Yellow = 59.984mm (-0.000mm, +0.006mm)
Green_ = 59.977mm (-0.000mm, +0.006mm)
Violet = 59.971mm (-0.000mm, +0.005mm)


Here's how I think you can do it. Measure your main journals. If your journal is:

2.36155 - 2.36180 = Yellow
2.36130 - 2.36154 = Green
2.36105 - 2.36129 = Violet
Less than 2.36104 = Get your crank fixed.
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      01-31-2014, 07:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
Ack, I'm on the spot now. I'm not an engine builder!

I've never heard of the rebuild bearings. They're only one set of part numbers in the catalog.

Most engines I've seen were GGGGG, but I did see one GGYGG. And yes, that one had a yellow shell in it.

The bearings are spec'd from the journal sizes. The specs are as follows:
Yellow = 59.984mm (-0.000mm, +0.006mm)
Green_ = 59.977mm (-0.000mm, +0.006mm)
Violet = 59.971mm (-0.000mm, +0.005mm)


Here's how I think you can do it. Measure your main journals. If your journal is:

2.36155 - 2.36180 = Yellow
2.36130 - 2.36154 = Green
2.36105 - 2.36129 = Violet
Less than 2.36104 = Get your crank fixed.
I was going to do that, it seemed like the only sure way to know. I just didn't want to order the wrong thing. It was worrying me that they posted all this about repair bearings I figured maybe the bearing is the same spec but it's physically different or fits the journal different when the bed plate is torqued. Thanks for the info RG.
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      01-31-2014, 07:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMG View Post
Where are you in CT ?
Shoot me a PM and I can help you as well.
RG knows his stuff !
I'm in Hebron about 20 minutes south east of Hartford off Rte 2. I will shoot you a pm
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      01-31-2014, 08:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtracing
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMG View Post
Where are you in CT ?
Shoot me a PM and I can help you as well.
RG knows his stuff !
I'm in Hebron about 20 minutes south east of Hartford off Rte 2. I will shoot you a pm
Sounds good, hit me up !
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      02-05-2014, 01:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtracing View Post
The block that is being used has GGVVV which from what I can tell, tells you which upper shells it takes no. 2 on the diagram below. Which letter indicates the guide bearing no.3 below? I am assuming the last letter V but I don't want to end up with the wrong one.

The crank that is being used has GGGYG which should be the lower shells. so same question which are the letters in order as they are in the picture? or is there something maybe in BMW TIS that I can't find?
Correct they are numbered 1-5 from front to rear. Rear (#5) being the guide bearing. I found this in ISTA document "1121531 Replacing all crankshaft main bearings (S65)." I can post photos if necessary. Or PM me and shoot me your email address and I will send you a PDF with photos.
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