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      11-20-2012, 09:20 PM   #1
bimmergoat
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Electronic Steering - M3 vs C63 Performance package

So I drove a 2013 c63 with the P package and the steering felt very light to me. It's so different than the M and I don't like it. Maybe it's because I'm used to the M but it seems like the light steering does not match the brutish appeal of the car. Can anyone explain to me what I'm supposed to expect when driving an electrically assisted steering system? If the new M feels like this then I'm keeping what I have.
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      11-20-2012, 09:55 PM   #2
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Not all EPS are created equal. The one in my Mini Countryman is fairly light in normal mode, but in Sport it weighs up very nicely, it's well judged and perfectly in character with the car.

So weight can be easily dialed in, feedback however not necessarily so.
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      11-21-2012, 12:35 AM   #3
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EPS feedback has always been, and continues to be the Achilles's heel even in the new Porsche 991. I am really not looking forward to the EPS on the next M3.
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      11-21-2012, 10:06 AM   #4
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EPS can be very good. The 991 911 has proven that. It is equal in almost all aspects to a GT3 which says a lot considering the GT3 is regarded as one of if not the best in steering feel.

I am not looking forward to BMW implementing EPS on the M3 because the EPS bmw has used so far hasnt been very good to say the least.
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      11-21-2012, 03:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing View Post
EPS can be very good. The 991 911 has proven that. It is equal in almost all aspects to a GT3 which says a lot considering the GT3 is regarded as one of if not the best in steering feel.
No it isn't.

The performance is almost as good as the GT3's, but the steering feel is not even close. I think many people confuse precision with feel.

Whatever, since I'm not in the right demographic for a 991 it's all academic as far as I'm concerned.
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      11-21-2012, 05:15 PM   #6
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EPS can be pretty good at times.... I had a Jetta GLI before my E36 and it didn't feel very numb to me. Although admittedly my M's steering feels much better than my Jetta did, the VW's steering wasnt bad or terrible
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      11-21-2012, 05:24 PM   #7
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EPS has not been executed well on any car. For instance, on my S2000 I would consider it the car's biggest flaw. On the M3, I consider the 6MT feel to be the biggest flaw (whereas it has steering feel in spades compared to the S2000).
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      11-21-2012, 05:53 PM   #8
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EPS can be done right. The Honda NSX has EPS, S2000 has EPS, the 991 has EPS and all are cars with a ton of feedback and positive steering feel. The EPS in the current BMW 5 series is terrible though.
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      11-21-2012, 07:02 PM   #9
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When they FINALLY get EPS completely right, meaning feel and accuracy, we will be in a new era. Porsche has gotten accuracy part mastered already. I'm guessing they will be the first to marry the two, everybody else will follow suit from there. At that point hydraulic will be a distant memory. For right now I'd rather have hydraulic we have in our M3's until BMW gets a handle on this. As a side note, steering FEEL doesn't feel quite as good on my M3 as it did on my 328i but accuracy is in another league. Go figure.
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      11-22-2012, 05:24 PM   #10
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I actually find the steering my C63 much better weighed and responsive than the one in my M3. I didn't have M-dynamic mode though.

At the limit on the track, the M3's steering was slightly more precise, but that was likely the weight and traction playing in as well.
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      11-22-2012, 06:56 PM   #11
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I find the C63 steering to be precise, similar to the M3, but IMO a little too light. The M3 had better weight. Having said that, I found the M3 a tad too light as well but definitely better than the C63.
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      11-23-2012, 02:50 AM   #12
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Accuracy is very much an inherent trait of EPS due to the nature of the technology compared to hydraulic. Feedback and feel however, will need time to develop and mature. As it is, even the EPS on the 991 that i tried, does not come close to being satisfying.
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      11-23-2012, 06:03 PM   #13
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Feedback and feel on the E90 M3 has always been good, not great. You cannot compare the hydraulic steering on the M3 to the pre-991 Porsche, Lotus, Sti or EVO. The M3 is overboosted, and lacks the true feedback through the fingers that define a great sports car. But it ain't bad.

However, compared to the C63, and I have driven every model year, the M3 steering is magnificent. The C63 steering is a numb piece of crap; like dialing and old rotary phone. No feel, huge play off center. This is particularly upsetting in a car with such outrageous hp and torque.
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      11-23-2012, 06:10 PM   #14
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The S2000 has the best usage of EPS I have ever seen as well as the NSX. One word of note is that it is still the largest complaint about both cars...
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      11-23-2012, 11:07 PM   #15
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i have no complaints about the steering feel of the eps on the nsx-it's great.it only assists until about 15 mph,and after that there is no power assist. so it doesn't have to be a negative,it just has to be done properly.
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      11-26-2012, 09:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
No it isn't.

The performance is almost as good as the GT3's, but the steering feel is not even close. I think many people confuse precision with feel.

Whatever, since I'm not in the right demographic for a 991 it's all academic as far as I'm concerned.
At speed, that car is pinpoint accurate and has feel and precision levels that nearly match a GT3. Ive had plenty of time in both to know this.
Nearly every review has also come to this conclusion. If Tiff and Randy Pobst who are decorated pro drivers who are much more honed in than anyone on this forum can also make this assessment, then it sure is.

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      11-27-2012, 09:58 PM   #17
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I'd still take a GT3's steering feel over the 991C2S electric steering. Maybe it's the PDCC option that makes it feel a bit odd at times. I also like the steering feel of the 996 GT3 over the 997.1 and 997.2 variants even though it's not as fast around the track.
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