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      02-03-2013, 01:17 AM   #1
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M3 and GTR

Went for a 100 mile jaunt on the backroads in my 2013 M3 with the 2013 GTR following me. We stopped and I asked if we could switch cars. His first reaction was, I do not let anyone drive my cars. Then he said O.K. I had driven as a passenger before from Portland to the coast and new this was fast.

After a few miles I got situated and found this GTR is really fast. Drove it deep into the corner, braked late and it just clawed at tarmac with all four tires. Still enjoyed getting back in the M3 but the GTR is impressive.
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      02-03-2013, 11:46 AM   #2
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you got some balls, but that's cool the guy was willing to switch. Although probably not that smart on either side, sometimes being smart is lame.

I hear a lot of people talk about them feeling disconnected or like driving a video game. What are you subjective thoughts about the GTR?
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      02-03-2013, 12:24 PM   #3
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Do not quite get the first part of your post. But to answer your question. The M3 is a much smoother and more refined car and better looking car in my opinion. That being said, the GTR kills the M3 in driving abilites. Owned several Porsches and BMWs over the years and was amazed at what this car can do!
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      02-03-2013, 12:31 PM   #4
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If I was in a point A to B race, and someone gave me the choice of any stock production car under $200k, the GTR would be my second choice after the 911 turbo S. It is a phenomenally capable vehicle, and at big power levels, the AWD gives a huge advantage to be able to really push the car with an added element of safety and control.

I drove a GTR on 3 separate occasions when car shopping in 2011. I still chose my M3. A lot depends on what you want out of the car. All too often, people think just about the car, not about how it will really be used.

So, if you want the fastest point A to B tool, then the GTR has few equals that are not true supercars.

Subjectively, however, it is an entirely different story.

My M3 is a proper manual. No matter what, DCT technology still does quirky things, especially at lower speeds. You still can't finesse the subtle engine-driver-transmission interfaces like you can with a proper manual. I very much enjoy this aspect of my M3, and the GTR can't give me this. Of course, the design objective of the GTR has to do with pure objective performance, so a DCT is the obvious choice.

The interior design of the GTR looks very piecemeal. It's almost as is if someone wanted to deliberately create the look of a rice rocket with semi-randomly placed parts, instead of a seamless and clean look. Since most of what you look at when you drive is in fact your interior, the interior design was very important to me.

The ride on the GTR is simply too harsh for a street vehicle. Great for the track, but my M3 is street driven 99% of the time. The suspension on the M3 is a flawless ride-handling balance. I wanted a car that was agile, but my M3 sees a fair amount of highway drives, so I need a degree of long distance comfort as well.

The GTR make a lot of unpleasant noises. The clunkiness of the transmission, the piss-poor exhaust, the excessive turbo whine, makes for a completely unsatisfying auditory experience. By comparison, look at the Audi S6. Here you have another AWD, dual clutch, turbo motor car, and yet the unpleasant sounds are hushed, and the exhaust sound is killer. Once again, however, there is no consideration of anything subjective in the GTR. None of these things do anything to objectively improve performance, so it is not considered in the GTR design. The M3's sounds, on the other hand, has me leaving the radio off nearly 50% of the time.

Exterior looks are obviously subjective, but the GTR has conflicting design elements IMO. There is no aesthetic consideration. Look at the new C7 Vette. One can have sharp creases and still make a good looking car. The M3 is, to my eyes, a gorgeous design. Clean, and subtlely muscular. Powerful looking, yet not in your face.

The steering feels more precise on the M3, although this is in part to the inherent loss in steering feel that can come with AWD.

The disconnected feeling of the GTR is more a result of it's supremely high capabilities. It won't feel disconnected at all going around a turn at 120mph, but at street driven speeds, it provides little feedback enjoyment. The M3 on the other hand, satisfies at all speeds.

So....in the end, it really depends what you want. If you want the baddest thing on the road that will win virtually every stoplight drag and that will let almost anyone turn super-fast track times, then a GTR is it. However if you want a more sophisticated and refined experience, and one that is more satisfying on the street, then the M3 is it.
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      02-03-2013, 02:07 PM   #5
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I too chose the M3 with a 6 spd manual for all the reasons you talked about LarThaL.
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      02-03-2013, 02:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binky
Do not quite get the first part of your post. But to answer your question. The M3 is a much smoother and more refined car and better looking car in my opinion. That being said, the GTR kills the M3 in driving abilites. Owned several Porsches and BMWs over the years and was amazed at what this car can do!


The GTR is fugly but if your goal is to have the fastest car for the best price it can't be beat
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      02-03-2013, 02:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
If I was in a point A to B race, and someone gave me the choice of any stock production car under $200k, the GTR would be my second choice after the 911 turbo S. It is a phenomenally capable vehicle, and at big power levels, AWD gives a huge advantage to be able to really push the car with an added element of safety and control.

I drove a GTR on 3 separate occasions when car shopping in 2011. I still chose my M3. A lot depends on what you want out of the car. All too often, people think just about the car, not about how it will really be used.

So, if you want the fastest point A to B tool, then GTR has few equals that are not true supercars.

Subjectively, however, it is an entirely different story.

My M3 is a proper manual. No matter what, DCT technology still does quirky things, especially at lower speeds. You still can't finesse the subtle engine-driver-transmission interfaces like you can with a proper manual. I very much enjoy this aspect of my M3, and the GTR cant give me this. Of course, the design objective of the GTR has to do with pure objective performance, so a DCT is the obvious choice.

The interior design of the GTR looks very piecemeal. It's almost as is if someone wanted to deliberately create the look of a rice rocket with semi-randomly placed parts, instead of a seamless and clean look. Since most of what you look at when you drive is in fact your interior, the interior design was very important to me.

The ride on the GTR is simply too harsh for a street vehicle. Great for the track, but my M3 is street driven 99% of the time. The suspension on the M3 is a flawless ride-handling balance. I wanted a car that was agile, but my M3 sees a fair amount of highway drives, so I need a degree of long distance comfort as well.

The GTR make a lot of unpleasant noises. the clunkiness of the transmission, the piss-poor exhaust, the excessive turbo whine, makes for a completely unsatisfying auditory experience. By comparison, look at the Audi S6. Here you have another AWD, dual clutch, turbo motor car, and yet the unpleasant sounds are hushed, and the exhaust sound is killer. Once again, however, there is no consideration of anything subjective in the GTR. None of these things do anything to objectively improve performance, so it is not considered in the GTR design. The M3's sounds, on the other hand, has me leaving the radio off nearly 50% of the time.

Exterior looks are obviously subjective, but the GTR has conflicting design elements IMO. There is also virtually no aesthetic consideration. Look at the new C7 Vette. One can have sharp creases and still make a good looking car. The M3 is, to my eyes, a gorgeous design. Clean, and subtlely muscular. Powerful looking, yet not in your face.

The steering feels more precise on the M3, although this is in part to the inherent loss in steering feel that can come with AWD.

The disconnected feeling of the GTR is more a result of it's supremely high capabilities. It won't feel disconnected at all going around a turn at 120mph, but at street driven speeds, it provides little feedback enjoyment. The M3 on the other hand, satisfies at all speeds.

So....in the end, it really depends what you want. If you want the baddest thing on the road that will win virtually every stoplight drag and that will let almost anyone turn super-fast track times, then GTR is it. However if you want a more sophisticated and refined experience, and one that is more satisfying on the street, then the M3 is it.

What a post! So so true
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      02-03-2013, 02:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binky View Post
Went for a 100 mile jaunt on the backroads in my 2013 M3 with the 2013 GTR following me. We stopped and I asked if we could switch cars. His first reaction was, I do not let anyone drive my cars. Then he said O.K. I had driven as a passenger before from Portland to the coast and new this was fast.

After a few miles I got situated and found this GTR is really fast. Drove it deep into the corner, braked late and it just clawed at tarmac with all four tires. Still enjoyed getting back in the M3 but the GTR is impressive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by binky View Post
I too chose the M3 with a 6 spd manual for all the reasons you talked about LarThaL.
Wow you got balls to swap cars. If that guy in the GTR doesn't know how to drive manual then your car is screwed.
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      02-03-2013, 02:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
If I was in a point A to B race, and someone gave me the choice of any stock production car under $200k, the GTR would be my second choice after the 911 turbo S. It is a phenomenally capable vehicle, and at big power levels, AWD gives a huge advantage to be able to really push the car with an added element of safety and control.

I drove a GTR on 3 separate occasions when car shopping in 2011. I still chose my M3. A lot depends on what you want out of the car. All too often, people think just about the car, not about how it will really be used.

So, if you want the fastest point A to B tool, then GTR has few equals that are not true supercars.

Subjectively, however, it is an entirely different story.

My M3 is a proper manual. No matter what, DCT technology still does quirky things, especially at lower speeds. You still can't finesse the subtle engine-driver-transmission interfaces like you can with a proper manual. I very much enjoy this aspect of my M3, and the GTR cant give me this. Of course, the design objective of the GTR has to do with pure objective performance, so a DCT is the obvious choice.

The interior design of the GTR looks very piecemeal. It's almost as is if someone wanted to deliberately create the look of a rice rocket with semi-randomly placed parts, instead of a seamless and clean look. Since most of what you look at when you drive is in fact your interior, the interior design was very important to me.

The ride on the GTR is simply too harsh for a street vehicle. Great for the track, but my M3 is street driven 99% of the time. The suspension on the M3 is a flawless ride-handling balance. I wanted a car that was agile, but my M3 sees a fair amount of highway drives, so I need a degree of long distance comfort as well.

The GTR make a lot of unpleasant noises. the clunkiness of the transmission, the piss-poor exhaust, the excessive turbo whine, makes for a completely unsatisfying auditory experience. By comparison, look at the Audi S6. Here you have another AWD, dual clutch, turbo motor car, and yet the unpleasant sounds are hushed, and the exhaust sound is killer. Once again, however, there is no consideration of anything subjective in the GTR. None of these things do anything to objectively improve performance, so it is not considered in the GTR design. The M3's sounds, on the other hand, has me leaving the radio off nearly 50% of the time.

Exterior looks are obviously subjective, but the GTR has conflicting design elements IMO. There is also virtually no aesthetic consideration. Look at the new C7 Vette. One can have sharp creases and still make a good looking car. The M3 is, to my eyes, a gorgeous design. Clean, and subtlely muscular. Powerful looking, yet not in your face.

The steering feels more precise on the M3, although this is in part to the inherent loss in steering feel that can come with AWD.

The disconnected feeling of the GTR is more a result of it's supremely high capabilities. It won't feel disconnected at all going around a turn at 120mph, but at street driven speeds, it provides little feedback enjoyment. The M3 on the other hand, satisfies at all speeds.

So....in the end, it really depends what you want. If you want the baddest thing on the road that will win virtually every stoplight drag and that will let almost anyone turn super-fast track times, then GTR is it. However if you want a more sophisticated and refined experience, and one that is more satisfying on the street, then the M3 is it.
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      02-03-2013, 03:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
If I was in a point A to B race, and someone gave me the choice of any stock production car under $200k, the GTR would be my second choice after the 911 turbo S. It is a phenomenally capable vehicle, and at big power levels, AWD gives a huge advantage to be able to really push the car with an added element of safety and control.

I drove a GTR on 3 separate occasions when car shopping in 2011. I still chose my M3. A lot depends on what you want out of the car. All too often, people think just about the car, not about how it will really be used.

So, if you want the fastest point A to B tool, then GTR has few equals that are not true supercars.

Subjectively, however, it is an entirely different story.

My M3 is a proper manual. No matter what, DCT technology still does quirky things, especially at lower speeds. You still can't finesse the subtle engine-driver-transmission interfaces like you can with a proper manual. I very much enjoy this aspect of my M3, and the GTR cant give me this. Of course, the design objective of the GTR has to do with pure objective performance, so a DCT is the obvious choice.

The interior design of the GTR looks very piecemeal. It's almost as is if someone wanted to deliberately create the look of a rice rocket with semi-randomly placed parts, instead of a seamless and clean look. Since most of what you look at when you drive is in fact your interior, the interior design was very important to me.

The ride on the GTR is simply too harsh for a street vehicle. Great for the track, but my M3 is street driven 99% of the time. The suspension on the M3 is a flawless ride-handling balance. I wanted a car that was agile, but my M3 sees a fair amount of highway drives, so I need a degree of long distance comfort as well.

The GTR make a lot of unpleasant noises. the clunkiness of the transmission, the piss-poor exhaust, the excessive turbo whine, makes for a completely unsatisfying auditory experience. By comparison, look at the Audi S6. Here you have another AWD, dual clutch, turbo motor car, and yet the unpleasant sounds are hushed, and the exhaust sound is killer. Once again, however, there is no consideration of anything subjective in the GTR. None of these things do anything to objectively improve performance, so it is not considered in the GTR design. The M3's sounds, on the other hand, has me leaving the radio off nearly 50% of the time.

Exterior looks are obviously subjective, but the GTR has conflicting design elements IMO. There is also virtually no aesthetic consideration. Look at the new C7 Vette. One can have sharp creases and still make a good looking car. The M3 is, to my eyes, a gorgeous design. Clean, and subtlely muscular. Powerful looking, yet not in your face.

The steering feels more precise on the M3, although this is in part to the inherent loss in steering feel that can come with AWD.

The disconnected feeling of the GTR is more a result of it's supremely high capabilities. It won't feel disconnected at all going around a turn at 120mph, but at street driven speeds, it provides little feedback enjoyment. The M3 on the other hand, satisfies at all speeds.

So....in the end, it really depends what you want. If you want the baddest thing on the road that will win virtually every stoplight drag and that will let almost anyone turn super-fast track times, then GTR is it. However if you want a more sophisticated and refined experience, and one that is more satisfying on the street, then the M3 is it.



A gtr w/ exhaust is one of the hands down best sounding cars period.

2. People say the GTR rides like shit (and it does) but it's the crap run flat tires. This is easily fixed and not a vaild argument against the car
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      02-03-2013, 10:21 PM   #11
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      02-03-2013, 10:54 PM   #12
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No matter what people say about the GTR, it's already proven to be a monster, need I say GODZILLA!!!!!
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      02-04-2013, 12:21 AM   #13
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Give me a rear drive V8 screamer with killer exhaust notes over an AWD anything all day long!!
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      02-04-2013, 03:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3an View Post
A gtr w/ exhaust is one of the hands down best sounding cars period.

2. People say the GTR rides like shit (and it does) but it's the crap run flat tires. This is easily fixed and not a vaild argument against the car
Changing the RFT tires on GTR to a non-RFT will reduce the noise and will make your ride more pleasant.

However, this car was designed and set up the way it is considering the size and the weight or the wheels and tires in order to perform like it does.

Changing the tires will change the performance of the car. GTR is a very mechanical car and makes many different noises.

You just have to be a right person for that car and it's very difficult to compare M3 to GTR as they are totally different cars.

Having both 2013 BE GTR and 2013 M3 I like to drive M3 much better on the street and at the track!
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      02-04-2013, 06:56 AM   #15
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Changing the RFT tires on GTR to a non-RFT will reduce the noise and will make your ride more pleasant.

However, this car was designed and set up the way it is considering the size and the weight or the wheels and tires in order to perform like it does.

Changing the tires will change the performance of the car. GTR is a very mechanical car and makes many different noises.

You just have to be a right person for that car and it's very difficult to compare M3 to GTR as they are totally different cars.

Having both 2013 BE GTR and 2013 M3 I like to drive M3 much better on the street and at the track!
Nice to hear from someone who has both currently and can compare side-by-side. I'm always surprised when the GT-R doesn't simply win hands down as the preferred track car.
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      02-04-2013, 09:08 AM   #16
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Hey, so on a different note, how is the M5's torque to control with a manual? Are you happy with the choice or would you go DCT at this power level?
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      02-04-2013, 04:08 PM   #17
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I am surprised at the mediocre lap times the majority of the drivers out down in their GTR's at track days. That being said it is the majority. There are a few individuals who can actually handle the car and when they get it right their times are very difficult to beat. That being said those individuals usually have slicks as well so it's an apples to oranges argument.
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      02-25-2013, 05:46 PM   #18
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I'm torn between getting an 09 GTR and putting a password:JDM exhaust on it.. and parking it only in empty empty empty empty parking lots.

Or a 2011 M3 with competition package.

I've driven my friend's 09 GTR for an entire day, and the ride was harsh, even in comfort mode. But it was QUICK.

Emotionless, like Ivan Drago. But quick.
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