BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Race Precision Motorsport
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-24-2012, 12:15 AM   #23
apecush
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Edmonton

Posts: 444
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Actually, even on the track, you should rarely need blipping to 8000RPM.
certainly agree with you, just using 8k as a worst case scenario (i actually have no idea what I generally match to, but i do know that the car won't hesitate to break traction if you don't get the revs high enough)
apecush is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2012, 09:51 PM   #24
HeartMD
Captain
 
HeartMD's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.75 MW,ZCP E92
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: CT

Posts: 653
iTrader: (0)

Update:
So I went out this morning and practiced for about an hour. I tried the above methods and it seemed to really help. Basically I had to bring my foot up a bit in order to really break with the ball of my foot just below the digits and with a slight bit of rotation at the ankle joint I was able to maneuver my heal with enough control to hit the throttle. However I did have to practice the technique for about 30 mins before I somewhat got the hang of it.
I eventually tried it a few times with the car moving at about 15-20 mph on an isolated back road and was pretty stoked about it. I will need to practice it much more before I can muster up the cohones and do it in a more "difficult" environment. I plan on learning how to track my car by taking it out to limerock park next season. Thanks for all the very insightful and very helpful comments everyone.

Joe
__________________
2011.75 E92 MW/BB extended,ZCP,ZP2,ZCV, IPOD,BMW APPS, Heatedseats,6MT, Edition Black Chrome Grills & Side Gills, CF splitters, CF performance spoiler, CF mirror caps, Turner black anodized pedals, Akropovic Evolution exhaust w/CF tips, Still Undecided on tune, AFE Pro5r, AFE intake scoops, LUX H8
2009 E92 JB/Black 335 xdrive (retired)

Last edited by HeartMD; 11-24-2012 at 10:10 PM.
HeartMD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2012, 10:31 PM   #25
Car54
Captain
 
Drives: 1999 Z3 Mcoupe | 2008 M3/4
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lutz, FL

Posts: 847
iTrader: (1)

Glad to hear you simplified your approach and are on your way!
__________________

Craig Brickner
BM
W CCA/PBOC/Chin Motorsports DE Instructor
Click to Join: BMWCCA # 366493
Car54 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2012, 02:46 PM   #26
SGMe90
tuningtechfs tuned
 
SGMe90's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 SGM e90 M3, 6mt
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MD

Posts: 302
iTrader: (4)

I watched videos on it as well and tried it last night. Gotta say I need more practice.....and more flexibility
__________________
Drives: 08 M3, third pedal baby
previous: 07 e93 335i (jb4)
SGMe90 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2012, 06:32 PM   #27
Parkanzky
Private First Class
 
Drives: '10 SGM M3
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Posts: 156
iTrader: (0)

What I found to help when I learned was to think about rolling my ankle starting at the knee. So I'd brake with my knees close together, then push my right knee to the right when I wanted to blip the throttle. For whatever reason, that was much easier for me than simply "rolling my foot over."
Parkanzky is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2012, 06:52 PM   #28
Gins
I can't find my pants.
 
Gins's Avatar
 
Drives: '15 Supergirl Combo M3, YMB-SO
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 8=====D \o/ 335i, yo

Posts: 2,487
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3 E90  [0.00]
Heal-Toe. LOL.

Do you HEEL your patients then?
Gins is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2012, 07:14 PM   #29
jqsmooth
Captain
 
jqsmooth's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Jersey

Posts: 635
iTrader: (1)

Good luck OP! I hope you master it one day. I've tried it and still trying to figure out how to heel-toe properly. But since I have no reference point of what a "perfect" heel-toe is, it's damn hard to know if I'm getting it right or just messing up the car. Oh, on a couple of occasions, I had my foot on both the break and the throttle while sitting at a red light. I was like, "what the hell is that noise?". People next to me must think I want to race them or something.
__________________
2011 E92 l SSII l Fox Red l ZP2 l ZCW l ZCV l 19" l 6MT l DDC l EPS
2012 Toyota Prius C(my new daily).
2002 Nissan Pathfinder - 301.6K and Junked.
2000 Mitsubishi Montero Sport - Rolled & Totalled.
1995 Cadillac Fleetwood - RIP.
jqsmooth is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2012, 11:05 PM   #30
HeartMD
Captain
 
HeartMD's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.75 MW,ZCP E92
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: CT

Posts: 653
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snig View Post
Heal-Toe. LOL.

Do you HEEL your patients then?
LOL... I didnt even realize that. All I can say is im better with numbers then with words
__________________
2011.75 E92 MW/BB extended,ZCP,ZP2,ZCV, IPOD,BMW APPS, Heatedseats,6MT, Edition Black Chrome Grills & Side Gills, CF splitters, CF performance spoiler, CF mirror caps, Turner black anodized pedals, Akropovic Evolution exhaust w/CF tips, Still Undecided on tune, AFE Pro5r, AFE intake scoops, LUX H8
2009 E92 JB/Black 335 xdrive (retired)
HeartMD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-26-2012, 12:08 AM   #31
Kasé Zomé
Captain
 
Kasé Zomé's Avatar
 
Drives: faster than my demons can fly
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SoCal

Posts: 787
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 E90 M3  [4.50]
This has been a truly helpful thread. Thanks!
__________________
1998 M3/4/5
2011 E90 6MT ZCP Slicktop (SOLD)
Kasé Zomé is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-26-2012, 12:55 AM   #32
bigjae1976
That's what she said...
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Posts: 5,410
iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
I find heel-toeing on the street is much more difficult. You don't have the brake pedal depressed as far or as hard on the street so you have to reach for the throttle. On the track, the brake pedal is buried in the carpet, it's much easier.

I'd just practice blipping the throttle and downshifting (no brake) since that is the most complicated part. Get that down and then start adding the heel toe part.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
bigjae1976 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-26-2012, 02:04 AM   #33
piloto
Captain
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3 - AW/FR
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

Posts: 835
iTrader: (0)

On track I think you'll find it much easier, because you'll be braking harder and bliping the throttle to get higher revs. Once you get the hang of it, you'll find yourself doing it everywhere. It's another dimension of fun.
piloto is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-26-2012, 05:12 AM   #34
MysticBlue
Major
 
Drives: '09 M3 DCT Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Eastern Oregon... They call 'em rigs here

Posts: 1,252
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I find heel-toeing on the street is much more difficult. You don't have the brake pedal depressed as far or as hard on the street so you have to reach for the throttle. On the track, the brake pedal is buried in the carpet, it's much easier.

I'd just practice blipping the throttle and downshifting (no brake) since that is the most complicated part. Get that down and then start adding the heel toe part.
I agree with this. I never felt like I could effectively practice this technique on the street. Just can't depress the brake far enough for the amount of time it takes to make it work, not without doing things that are not cool to be doing on public roads.

It's kind of like snow skiing. If you want to learn how to ski on steeper, faster slopes, you just have to do it on steeper faster slopes. You may theoretically know the technique you need to work on, but you just can't do it on a shallow slope because you scrub off your speed so quick that what you are trying to do is no longer relevant or realistic.

I didn't really get it until I spent two days at the M driving school in SC, where I got to do it over and over at speed. After that and a couple of years of track days, I got relatively good at it, (for an amateur). Feels pretty good when you hit it right and put it all together. Then, 4 years ago, I found a nice little trick... DCT.
__________________
Active Autowerke filter, Dinan underdrive pulley, Dinan full exhaust and software, 3.45 Differential, Springs, Brakes, Dinan/HRE wheels, 275/30-19 w/10mm spacer, 295/30-19 w/3mm spacer, painted front reflectors, 30% tint, Escort 8500i & Lidar Jammer, AngeliBright halos, Euro rear foglights, 3M ClearBra.
MysticBlue is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-26-2012, 08:31 AM   #35
dhoggm3
Captain
 
dhoggm3's Avatar
 
Drives: F80 E93 E36 M3, F430, 981 BS
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: York, PA

Posts: 934
iTrader: (1)

Fwiw, the motor can be completely off when you practice this. No need to tax that sweet piece of equipment while you get the motions right.

Have fun! It's awesome when you finally start nailing it.
__________________

Never leave a car completely stock!
dhoggm3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-26-2012, 09:24 AM   #36
Car54
Captain
 
Drives: 1999 Z3 Mcoupe | 2008 M3/4
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lutz, FL

Posts: 847
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartMD View Post
LOL... I didnt even realize that. All I can say is im better with numbers then with words
Hey...at least we can read your words...if you wrote them by hand ...not a chance.
__________________

Craig Brickner
BM
W CCA/PBOC/Chin Motorsports DE Instructor
Click to Join: BMWCCA # 366493
Car54 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-26-2012, 09:33 AM   #37
Sergeleb ATM
New Member
 
Sergeleb ATM's Avatar
 
Drives: SG E90
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Lebanon

Posts: 18
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartMD View Post
Though I have been driving standard transmission cars for about 20 years it wasnt until about a year ago that I figured Id try and learn how to "really drive". So Ive worked a ton on rev matching and that is well n good, but damn for the love of god, I just dont have enough flexibilty in my right ankle to be able to brake and blip the throttle at the same time when trying to heal n toe.
Youtube videos dont help at all.
Can any of the seasoned vets out there throw me some pointers..

Joe
Whether you work the clutch and brake with your left ankle and the gas with your right, or you just leave the right ankle do the braking and throttling, practice makes perfect!!!
Sergeleb ATM is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-26-2012, 04:03 PM   #38
M3PO
Colonel
 
M3PO's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

Posts: 2,733
iTrader: (6)

I've been trying to learn on the street also. I plan to track soon (first time ever) and I want to be able to do it. I find that the pedal being hinged at the floor makes it difficult. I also end up mashing the brakes to get a good blip. I think I am just going to have to practice in the garage and learn to do it on the track. I can downshift without breaking pretty well though!
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
M3PO is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-26-2012, 06:51 PM   #39
radiantm3
Apex Everything!
 
radiantm3's Avatar
 
Drives: >1000 HP in my garage
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Danville, CA

Posts: 3,815
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 E92 M3  [4.80]
2013 BMW X5M  [4.33]
The best scenario to practice on the street is when you are making a right turn on a green light. When there's no cars or people around, just brake later and harder than you normally would and rev match before the turn. I do it all the time at certain lights that I turn on daily. Keeps me in practice while I'm not at the track.
__________________
(1:40 @ Laguna Seca, 2:03 @ Thunderhill, 1:52 @ Infineon)
radiantm3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 12:15 PM   #40
ersin
Brigadier General
 
ersin's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 IB E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maryland

Posts: 4,070
iTrader: (1)

I have one thing to add. Because the throttle pedal is hinged on the floor it is much easier to "heel-toe" when your heel is on the floor.

Up until this car, I only had manual transmissions in Japanese cars (MR2, Miata,...) which hinge their throttle pedals from the top. So, I was used to having my heel off of the floor when heel-toeing and had no problem this way. In fact, this was more "left-side, right-side" rather than real "heel-toe".

I had an E46 M3 but that was with the SMG transmission so no heel-toe there. But with the E92 M3 I have a manual and was really struggling to make heel-toe work until I figured out that you really need to keep your heel on the floor at the base of the throttle pedal.

To brake, pivot your right foot over to the brake using your heel as the pivot. You can still leave a big hunk of the outside part of your right foot on the throttle pedal to operate the throttle as you're braking with the ball of your foot.

I hope this helps.


Cheers.
__________________

I've been assimilated. 6MT/ZPP/18"/PS extended.
ersin is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 07:18 PM   #41
M3PO
Colonel
 
M3PO's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

Posts: 2,733
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ersin View Post
I have one thing to add. Because the throttle pedal is hinged on the floor it is much easier to "heel-toe" when your heel is on the floor.

Up until this car, I only had manual transmissions in Japanese cars (MR2, Miata,...) which hinge their throttle pedals from the top. So, I was used to having my heel off of the floor when heel-toeing and had no problem this way. In fact, this was more "left-side, right-side" rather than real "heel-toe".

I had an E46 M3 but that was with the SMG transmission so no heel-toe there. But with the E92 M3 I have a manual and was really struggling to make heel-toe work until I figured out that you really need to keep your heel on the floor at the base of the throttle pedal.

To brake, pivot your right foot over to the brake using your heel as the pivot. You can still leave a big hunk of the outside part of your right foot on the throttle pedal to operate the throttle as you're braking with the ball of your foot.

I hope this helps.


Cheers.
Interesting. I find that it's exactly the opposite (granted I am having trouble learning). I used to have a 350z and having the pedal hinged at the floor made it much easier (for me at least). You have more leverage to actually push the pedal down with your heel so you don't have to roll your ankle much. With the pedal hinged at the bottom, my heel has to be off the floor to push the pedal higher up to get leverage and I have to roll my ankle also.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
M3PO is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2012, 09:52 PM   #42
TVMA Doc
Captain
 
TVMA Doc's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3, Jerez Black
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SF Bay

Posts: 673
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by piloto View Post
The pedal placement on this car is not ideal. The throttle pedal is too far aft relative to the brake, so unless you're braking hard (e.g. from hard speed), you're never in the right place to easily blip the throttle with the side of your foot.

I suggest getting a set of ultimate pedals, or even getting just their throttle pedal as it bolts on top of the existing pedal and brings its face closer to the same plane as the brake's. The other thing with this car is that the drivetrain has very low inertia, which is great, but when heel and toeing, requires a little more revs than one might give in another car.

For reference, in my S2000, I heel and toe just fine with the stock pedals, but on the M3, I went with a set of ultimate pedals and it made a huge difference.
I agree. I find it much easier to heel-toe in my S2000. With my M3 M-DCT, they forgot the clutch pedal all together!
TVMA Doc is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2012, 08:46 PM   #43
TTSam
Second Lieutenant
 
TTSam's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Burlington

Posts: 245
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
Interesting. I find that it's exactly the opposite (granted I am having trouble learning). I used to have a 350z and having the pedal hinged at the floor made it much easier (for me at least). You have more leverage to actually push the pedal down with your heel so you don't have to roll your ankle much. With the pedal hinged at the bottom, my heel has to be off the floor to push the pedal higher up to get leverage and I have to roll my ankle also.
Didn't read through the entire thread so maybe it has already been mentioned.

Have a look at Ayrton doing it..............in dress shoes no less!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=8By2AEsGAhU

Love this video.
TTSam is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2012, 09:18 PM   #44
HeartMD
Captain
 
HeartMD's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.75 MW,ZCP E92
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: CT

Posts: 653
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSam View Post
Didn't read through the entire thread so maybe it has already been mentioned.

Have a look at Ayrton doing it..............in dress shoes no less!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=8By2AEsGAhU

Love this video.
Ayrton was and will always be the greatest F-1 driver of all time. Ive been watching that video for a few years now and am always mesmorized by his great foot work. A true artist.
Followed his career ever since 1984, God rest his soul.
__________________
2011.75 E92 MW/BB extended,ZCP,ZP2,ZCV, IPOD,BMW APPS, Heatedseats,6MT, Edition Black Chrome Grills & Side Gills, CF splitters, CF performance spoiler, CF mirror caps, Turner black anodized pedals, Akropovic Evolution exhaust w/CF tips, Still Undecided on tune, AFE Pro5r, AFE intake scoops, LUX H8
2009 E92 JB/Black 335 xdrive (retired)
HeartMD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:20 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST