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      12-21-2012, 05:05 PM   #177
Mookster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghetto2315 View Post
Somebody school me. How did the Z06 manage to squeeze out a 1.4-sec better lap time than the ZR1 around Laguna Seca? Too much power in the ZR1 and loss of traction?? Better balance in the Z06??

EDIT: As I typed that, I read that a new record was set by the ZR1 last week with a 1:33.70. New SRT Viper clocked in at 1:35.77.
Z06 is about 200lbs lighter...

The Z06 that ran 1:34 was with a Z07 package(ZR1 brakes and suspension).

I'd take ZR1 over Z06 any day tho
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      12-21-2012, 05:25 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post
Z06 is about 200lbs lighter...

The Z06 that ran 1:34 was with a Z07 package(ZR1 brakes and suspension).

I'd take ZR1 over Z06 any day tho
And Pilot sport cup tires.
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      12-21-2012, 06:14 PM   #179
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Pilot Sports Cup tires (R-compound) equipped on the current ZO6 can take away about 4 sec per lap vs street tires. The ZO6s tested on street tires were much slower.

These two cars are not really competitors to each other as someone stated. One is a 2 seat sports car and the other is a GT car. For the sake of this thread to compare the two, here is my opinion. The ZO6 is seriously fast in the right hands, but with its cheap run-flats, the car is very tricky to drive aggressively. The biggest problem, the car is just not refine. The interior is rental car quality, and the car is just TOO plastic. However, it would make a great track car. The M3 on the other hand is light years ahead in technology compared to the Corvette. It's simply a more usable car on the streets and can be very potent on the track as well.
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      12-21-2012, 08:30 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av2 View Post
Pilot Sports Cup tires (R-compound) equipped on the current ZO6 can take away about 4 sec per lap vs street tires. The ZO6s tested on street tires were much slower.

These two cars are not really competitors to each other as someone stated. One is a 2 seat sports car and the other is a GT car. For the sake of this thread to compare the two, here is my opinion. The ZO6 is seriously fast in the right hands, but with its cheap run-flats, the car is very tricky to drive aggressively. The biggest problem, the car is just not refine. The interior is rental car quality, and the car is just TOO plastic. However, it would make a great track car. The M3 on the other hand is light years ahead in technology compared to the Corvette. It's simply a more usable car on the streets and can be very potent on the track as well.
No, 2 seconds is about where its at...

2009 ZR1 was on street tires and ran 1:35.8
2012 ZR1 on R tires ran 1:33.70

4 seconds lol..
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      12-21-2012, 08:37 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av2 View Post
Pilot Sports Cup tires (R-compound) equipped on the current ZO6 can take away about 4 sec per lap vs street tires. The ZO6s tested on street tires were much slower.

These two cars are not really competitors to each other as someone stated. One is a 2 seat sports car and the other is a GT car. For the sake of this thread to compare the two, here is my opinion. The ZO6 is seriously fast in the right hands, but with its cheap run-flats, the car is very tricky to drive aggressively. The biggest problem, the car is just not refine. The interior is rental car quality, and the car is just TOO plastic. However, it would make a great track car. The M3 on the other hand is light years ahead in technology compared to the Corvette. It's simply a more usable car on the streets and can be very potent on the track as well.

Lol. And what would those technologies be?
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      12-21-2012, 08:47 PM   #182
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Lol. And what would those technologies be?
It must be its 3700lbs weight
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      12-21-2012, 10:08 PM   #183
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I love the Z06 guys beating up on the M Hahahahaha. I can't comment though, I absolutely love both!
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      12-21-2012, 11:00 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post
No, 2 seconds is about where its at...

2009 ZR1 was on street tires and ran 1:35.8
2012 ZR1 on R tires ran 1:33.70

4 seconds lol..
2 secs? You obviously have no experience with R-compounds. Comparing lap times of the same car at different days even with the same driver and setups can yield different lap times. Have you checked the lap time on the C6 zo6 at the Ring in 6/2007? Use that lap time for street tires vs the one equipped with the cup tires and you'll fall off your chair.

Technologies? The ZO6 has a push rod motor, leaf springs and a display of a calculator found at the dollar store. The M3 has an F1 inspired high revving V8, EDC, M variable diff lock, updated I-drive, and offers a dual clutch transmission. Sure, the M3 has a few more pounds than the Vette but one can seat 4-5 people and with 4 doors. The Vette is made out of mostly plastic and 2 flimsy chairs. Great performance but a poor product in terms of quality.
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      12-21-2012, 11:28 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av2 View Post
2 secs? You obviously have no experience with R-compounds. Comparing lap times of the same car at different days even with the same driver and setups can yield different lap times. Have you checked the lap time on the C6 zo6 at the Ring in 6/2007? Use that lap time for street tires vs the one equipped with the cup tires and you'll fall off your chair.

Technologies? The ZO6 has a push rod motor, leaf springs and a display of a calculator found at the dollar store. The M3 has an F1 inspired high revving V8, EDC, M variable diff lock, updated I-drive, and offers a dual clutch transmission. Sure, the M3 has a few more pounds than the Vette but one can seat 4-5 people and with 4 doors. The Vette is made out of mostly plastic and 2 flimsy chairs. Great performance but a poor product in terms of quality.
Notice on the list GT3RS had R compound tires and Z06 served it ....and GT3 is a god's gift around lol...

Z06 might have leaf springs but makes Ferraris cry
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      12-22-2012, 01:08 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post
Notice on the list GT3RS had R compound tires and Z06 served it ....and GT3 is a god's gift around lol...

Z06 might have leaf springs but makes Ferraris cry
Better than the M3, now beating the GT3 and making Ferrari cry?

There you go again doing comparisons at different days and conditions. Road and Track did a test between Lamborghini Gallardo, Ferrari F430, Porsche 997 Turbo, Ford GT, Dodge Viper SRT10, and Chevrolet Corvette Z06 on the same day at the Quattroruote's test track.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/search/?q=world+superpowers

The Z06 posted the 3/4th fastest lap time behind the Ferrari F430 and Gallardo:

Ferrari F430: 1:17.4
Lamborghini Gallardo: 1:17.8
Dodge Viper SRT10: 1:19.5
Chevrolet Corvette Z06: 1:19.5
Ford GT 1:19.8
Porsche 911 Turbo: 1:20.0
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      12-22-2012, 04:38 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av2 View Post
Better than the M3, now beating the GT3 and making Ferrari cry?

There you go again doing comparisons at different days and conditions. Road and Track did a test between Lamborghini Gallardo, Ferrari F430, Porsche 997 Turbo, Ford GT, Dodge Viper SRT10, and Chevrolet Corvette Z06 on the same day at the Quattroruote's test track.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/search/?q=world+superpowers

The Z06 posted the 3/4th fastest lap time behind the Ferrari F430 and Gallardo:

Ferrari F430: 1:17.4
Lamborghini Gallardo: 1:17.8
Dodge Viper SRT10: 1:19.5
Chevrolet Corvette Z06: 1:19.5
Ford GT 1:19.8
Porsche 911 Turbo: 1:20.0
Nice move pawn...

my move now...checkmate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times

F430 7:55
Z06 7:22.68

(you're going to come back at me with same argument...that it wasnt same day or same driver...thats over 30 seconds...)

Guess that F430 interior is worth the price
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      12-22-2012, 09:52 AM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post
Nice move pawn...

my move now...checkmate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times

F430 7:55
Z06 7:22.68

(you're going to come back at me with same argument...that it wasnt same day or same driver...thats over 30 seconds...)

Guess that F430 interior is worth the price :lol:
To some that can afford it, yes the interior of an F430 is worth the $$$. The thing that Vette guys can't seem to understand is that the build quality and cheap ass craftsmanship keeps would be buyers from buying the car.....irrespective of performance. I know many that love the exterior styling of the Z06 but just refuse to settle for the subpar interior, etc. In addition there is a better $$$/performance car out there now and that is the GTR. It's build quality and interior is much better than the Vette with equal or better performance .
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      12-22-2012, 12:25 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post
Nice move pawn...

my move now...checkmate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times

F430 7:55
Z06 7:22.68

(you're going to come back at me with same argument...that it wasnt same day or same driver...thats over 30 seconds...)

Guess that F430 interior is worth the price
Lol, I think you checkmate yourself.

You're taking too much pride in the ZO6 and failed to see its problems. The cost of ownership between a ZO6 is similar to an M3, new or used. Anyone (with decent mechanical skills) can make a car go fast by putting a high HP engine in a plastic chassis which is common sense. The problem is poor execution. The body gaps, cheap interior materials, body trims, low tech engineering, road noise, flimsy panels just make the car aweful to live with. Yes, the Vette is quicker at the track (if the driver can keep it on pavement) but the M3 is overall the better car. I thought that's why ZO6 owners are lurking around here so much.
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      12-22-2012, 05:14 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av2 View Post
Lol, I think you checkmate yourself.

You're taking too much pride in the ZO6 and failed to see its problems. The cost of ownership between a ZO6 is similar to an M3, new or used. Anyone (with decent mechanical skills) can make a car go fast by putting a high HP engine in a plastic chassis which is common sense. The problem is poor execution. The body gaps, cheap interior materials, body trims, low tech engineering, road noise, flimsy panels just make the car aweful to live with. Yes, the Vette is quicker at the track (if the driver can keep it on pavement) but the M3 is overall the better car. I thought that's why ZO6 owners are lurking around here so much.
You are perfectly entitled to your overall opinion about Corvettes, but you are not entitled to make up your own facts.

First, the chassis is steel and aluminum. Second, the body gaps are necessary because of the material used, which expands and contracts more with temperature than steel and/or aluminum. Cheap interior materials? Got me there , but if that's really important to you, why aren't you in an Audi? Body trims? Nothing stands out there, as far as I can see.

Flimsy panels? Not so's you'd notice, except for the tail cap. On the other hand, being able to push in on that item has no ramifications, and it's that way because of the Corvette guys' slavish attention to saving weight. The current Grand Sport weighs almost exactly the same as my last 'Vette (a '93 six-speed coupe), while having bigger wheels and tires, bigger brakes, more cooling, more safety equipment, and on and on. As you probaly know the Z06 is somewhat lighter, going out the door at a bit over 3200 pounds - with the larger ZR-1 tires and brakes.

Low tech engineering? Look, if high-tech is important to you for its own sake, that's OK with me, but don't have the temerity to assume that's how everyone else feels. For me, a 458 pound engine that is slightly more compact than the current 445 pound M3 V8 and has way the hell more power and torque, is a good thing. The current M3 would be way faster than it now is with the Z06 motor under the hood.

In addition, those transverse leaf springs under the Vette are genuine high-tech items. They're very light and compact, and absolutely get the job done.

Road noise? You're kidding, right? This is an out and out world-class performer, and you're suggesting that it should be limousine quiet? Give me a break. It's an extremely high performance sports car, ferchrissake.

As for track use, current Vettes come into their own in that venue. The somewhat lifeless steering on the street suddenly starts loading up nicely on track, and they are very confidence inspiring when really hauling the mail.

Look, if you have the opportunity (and of course the inclination), go wander under a Z06 (or Grand Sport, or ZR-1) on a lift, and if you actually know stuff, you will come away thinking that these Corvette guys are really serious about performance.

I will say those crappy Goodyears were a travesty. The move to Michelins by Chevrolet is long overdue.

Bruce


PS - As to which is the better car depends on yoiur priorities. From my point of view, the current M3 is maybe the best overall compromise ever made when you consider speed, handling, luxury, etc., all in a single package.

But the more narrowly focussed Z06 will leave it for dead in any sort of a performance test, with the same driver in each car.
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      12-22-2012, 06:49 PM   #191
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      12-22-2012, 10:58 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av2 View Post
Lol, I think you checkmate yourself.

You're taking too much pride in the ZO6 and failed to see its problems. The cost of ownership between a ZO6 is similar to an M3, new or used. Anyone (with decent mechanical skills) can make a car go fast by putting a high HP engine in a plastic chassis which is common sense. The problem is poor execution. The body gaps, cheap interior materials, body trims, low tech engineering, road noise, flimsy panels just make the car aweful to live with. Yes, the Vette is quicker at the track (if the driver can keep it on pavement) but the M3 is overall the better car. I thought that's why ZO6 owners are lurking around here so much.
I normally dont talk much after i checkmate ppl ..i will make an exception to further close your mouth

I changed my oil for $46, full synthetic with AC Delco gold filter. My first real scheduled maint. is $380(at 30k).

When your car or an M3 can do that, call me!
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      12-22-2012, 11:06 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post
I normally dont talk much after i checkmate ppl ..i will make an exception to further close your mouth

I changed my oil for $46, full synthetic with AC Delco gold filter. My first real scheduled maint. is $380(at 30k).

When your car or an M3 can do that, call me!
pssssst.......M3's have FREE oil changes for the first 4 years or 50K miles. Last I checked FREE was less than $46.

AC Delco? Are they still in business?

The hits just keep on coming for you. What is better than checkmate? Double checkmate?
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      12-22-2012, 11:24 PM   #194
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pssssst.......M3's have FREE oil changes for the first 4 years or 50K miles. Last I checked FREE was less than $46.

AC Delco? Are they still in business?

The hits just keep on coming for you. What is better than checkmate? Double checkmate?
Nothing is free. Your maintenance is included in the price of the car. Come on, you knew that...
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      12-23-2012, 12:28 AM   #195
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my buddy recently got new heads, cams and obviously a retune. just playing around his car seems much much quicker lol
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      12-23-2012, 12:34 AM   #196
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^^What kinda power does your car make?
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      12-23-2012, 12:39 AM   #197
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we drove each other cars (this is after his new head and cam package) and we both agreed that at the track my M was much more enjoyable. the MDM seemed to allow you to push the car harder with more confidence as opposed to the chevy's competion driving program. we have driven each others cars on the street in straight line comparos but this was the first time we swapped on the track. in this video im driving my car (the M) and hes in his vette. you can hear that while were having fun, we arent exactly pushing the cars or even beggining to probe the limit of either of these two machines. he was on the newest michelin pss while i had a fresh set of nitto NT05's
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      12-23-2012, 12:44 AM   #198
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^^What kinda power does your car make?
its weird as hell man, ive dyoned anywhere from 520 all the way up to 591. all were done on 91 octane but the low was done on a dyno dynamics, and the high on a dyno jet. i wanna get back to the dyno jet on a cooler day with some 100 octane to hopefully crack 600 at the tires. my buddy said that with his new setup hes right at 600 to the tires. it sounds about right to me but he had everything done custom, custom grind on the cams, custom headwork (he owns his own shop) so he hasnt told me the specs. we messed around on the way back from button willow and damn he car pulled like a raped ape as we hit fourth gear.
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