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      05-28-2015, 12:34 PM   #1
MikeeM3
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Anyone on here made the switch from a remote tune vs a dyno tune??

Hi guys,

I just booked my dyno tune this morning and im still not 100% convinced that i made the right decision... i will explain a little more my story.

I bought the car and the previous owner had already put the EvolveR tune on the car.

I have called Evolve and they told me that the EvolveR tune was gonna adapt itself to the new parts and a reflash was not needed... i know Evolve is a good trustable company but in my opinion a real dyno tune is more efficient and effective compared to a tune that the company send you in the mail.

Im afraid of putting the car on the dyno to see whats the power of the car before the tune and get a good amount of power and after switching software and get the car tuned, getting only a minimal gain

Would you do it if you were in my shoes or you would keep the 800$ and only run the Evolve tune??

Thanks for the help
-Mike
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      05-28-2015, 12:37 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeeM3 View Post
Hi guys,

I just booked my dyno tune this morning and im still not 100% convinced that i made the right decision... i will explain a little more my story.

I bought the car and the previous owner had already put the EvolveR tune on the car.

I have called Evolve and they told me that the EvolveR tune was gonna adapt itself to the new parts and a reflash was not needed... i know Evolve is a good trustable company but in my opinion a real dyno tune is more efficient and effective compared to a tune that the company send you in the mail.

Im afraid of putting the car on the dyno to see whats the power of the car before the tune and get a good amount of power and after switching software and get the car tuned, getting only a minimal gain

Would you do it if you were in my shoes or you would keep the 800$ and only run the Evolve tune??

Thanks for the help
-Mike
Who is tuning it on the dyno? There's not many places that can do that. FYI, the more modern control systems in these cars and others (335i) use targeting algorithms to hit specific a/f ratios and ignition timing based on load. They run entirely closed loop, so yes they do adapt quite well. A car-specific tune on these cars is less impactful over a canned tune than older cars for this reason.
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      05-28-2015, 12:41 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sered View Post
Who is tuning it on the dyno? There's not many places that can do that. FYI, the more modern control systems in these cars and others (335i) use targeting algorithms to hit specific a/f ratios and ignition timing based on load. They run entirely closed loop, so yes they do adapt quite well. A car-specific tune on these cars is less impactful over a canned tune than older cars for this reason.
Car will be tune by: http://www.eurocharged.com/

Im in Canada so i will drive to their canadian location and have it done by Vlad who's their BMW tuner !!
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      05-28-2015, 12:54 PM   #4
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never heard of them. what octane do you have available? what octance was the evolve tune for?
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      05-28-2015, 01:10 PM   #5
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never heard of them. what octane do you have available? what octance was the evolve tune for?
Evolve was for 91 and i have acces to 94 !!
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      05-28-2015, 01:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeeM3 View Post
Evolve was for 91 and i have acces to 94 !!
you can always have evolve dyno tune the car as well. I had my car remote dyno tuned for new parts when I was stage two with no problem. And if you are looking for change in octane they can assist in that as well.
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      05-30-2015, 12:12 PM   #7
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On a target based ecu such as the mss60, I have yet to see a "custom dyno tune" that wasn't being offered by some type of scam artist. There, I said it.

I've operated the dyno database for years and I have yet to see a custom tune that went back to the dyno a few weeks later that held its power gains. And if you search the dyno database for some of the dyno cheats called out, you will see some of them on the custom tunes by guys using a different car as a baseline then their "custom tune" as the final results. So my question is simple: if the custom tune is so real then why all the manipulation tactics?
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      05-30-2015, 01:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
On a target based ecu such as the mss60, I have yet to see a "custom dyno tune" that wasn't being offered by some type of scam artist. There, I said it.

I've operated the dyno database for years and I have yet to see a custom tune that went back to the dyno a few weeks later that held its power gains. And if you search the dyno database for some of the dyno cheats called out, you will see some of them on the custom tunes by guys using a different car as a baseline then their "custom tune" as the final results. So my question is simple: if the custom tune is so real then why all the manipulation tactics?
I think there is a lot of merit to what you are saying. Absent engine work (e.g., cams, boring, stroking), I think there really is no difference between a "canned" tune and a "dyno" tune on an FBO S65.

On the other hand, I tend to believe that the gains are real when, for example, people move from a Cobb OTS tune to a Cobb Pro Tune on the N54. Assuming the ECUs operate similarly on the S65- and N54-equipped cars, I don't know how to explain that except to surmise that the Cobb OTS maps are very, very conservative and the pro tunes are able to push the envelope a bit more with the car on the dyno.
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      06-01-2015, 09:52 AM   #9
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did you do a baseline dyno run?
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      06-01-2015, 10:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
On a target based ecu such as the mss60, I have yet to see a "custom dyno tune" that wasn't being offered by some type of scam artist. There, I said it.

I've operated the dyno database for years and I have yet to see a custom tune that went back to the dyno a few weeks later that held its power gains. And if you search the dyno database for some of the dyno cheats called out, you will see some of them on the custom tunes by guys using a different car as a baseline then their "custom tune" as the final results. So my question is simple: if the custom tune is so real then why all the manipulation tactics?
I'm in agreement here. I think the majority of the 'gains' from custom tunes stem from a combination of more aggressive AF targets and ignition timing targets, and resetting the adaptations prior to the dyno. The tune eventually dials back the timing due to less than optimal gas and the 'gains' are eliminated.
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      06-01-2015, 10:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
I think there is a lot of merit to what you are saying. Absent engine work (e.g., cams, boring, stroking), I think there really is no difference between a "canned" tune and a "dyno" tune on an FBO S65.

On the other hand, I tend to believe that the gains are real when, for example, people move from a Cobb OTS tune to a Cobb Pro Tune on the N54. Assuming the ECUs operate similarly on the S65- and N54-equipped cars, I don't know how to explain that except to surmise that the Cobb OTS maps are very, very conservative and the pro tunes are able to push the envelope a bit more with the car on the dyno.
You're correct, on the N54 the OTS maps are very conservative. They're conservative in the ignition timing, AF targets, and the PID control parameters for boost. Most custom tunes for these cars are adjusting those values. For the S65, there is no complex boost control system and the centri blowers don't have to worry about non-linear boost ramp-ups. The PD blower uses a mechanical valve to adjust and I'm guessing Gintani will be using a combination of wastegate spring and a manual boost controller.
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      06-01-2015, 10:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sered View Post
I'm in agreement here. I think the majority of the 'gains' from custom tunes stem from a combination of more aggressive AF targets and ignition timing targets, and resetting the adaptations prior to the dyno. The tune eventually dials back the timing due to less than optimal gas and the 'gains' are eliminated.
Yes, I forgot to mention that. It seems like these "custom tune" companies reset the ECU adaptations when "tuning" on the dyno. This spikes the dyno results -- by about 10 whp in my experience. Go back in two weeks, and the gains are all gone.
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      06-01-2015, 11:57 AM   #13
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i dont know why but i have a feeling that the more replies i get the more confused i will be :/ i thought most remote tunes we very basic and that timing/fuel were not played with to extract maybe more power in the higher RPM range !!
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      06-04-2015, 10:51 AM   #14
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I have decided to still go to my appointment and after the first dyno pull i will evaluate if a tune is necessary or if the Evolve tune made enough power !!
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