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View Poll Results: Does your M3 see track time?
No way 29 10.86%
Not yet, but maybe in the future 93 34.83%
1-2 days per year 31 11.61%
3-5 days per year 47 17.60%
6-12 days per year 41 15.36%
Greater than 12 days a year 26 9.74%
Voters: 267. You may not vote on this poll

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      11-14-2012, 11:33 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Most M3 owner don't even ever think of taking it to the track, simply because it just never even crosses their mind. This forum samples a minuscule fraction of M3 owners. ]B]So there is no lame excuse needed.[/b]

In regards to safety... tracking can be expensive, sure there are more chances of getting into an accident on your way to work, but once you start driving competitively on the track within an advanced group you see plenty of accidents. During pretty much every track day in Watkins Glen you will have 2-3 cars leave with damage. So although you risk an accident every time you drive your car on a public road, some folks prefer not to increase their chances of an accident by taking it to the track.
The lame excuse comes when they spend $15,000 on mods and drive like an ass on the street. Then tell them about how to do it safely on the track. Give them links to how to sign up. You know they have plenty of money for it and you get my sig.
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      11-14-2012, 08:01 PM   #90
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I discovered a passion many years ago in driving cars on a race track and continuously improving my skills at extracting the most performance out of a car (still plenty of opportunity left ). I will definitely try to encourage others in discovering and sharing this passion of mine. It is the main reason I accepted becoming an instructor. But if it is not for them, I fully respect that .

The beauty of the M3 lies in the fact that it excels at many different things. So different people buy the M3 for different reasons. I say to each their own .
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      11-14-2012, 08:25 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I say to each their own .
quit being so open minded. we have no room for that here.
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      11-14-2012, 09:10 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
quit being so open minded. we have no room for that here.
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      11-14-2012, 10:41 PM   #93
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oh sorry went of my meds again.
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      11-15-2012, 09:39 AM   #94
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Next thing you know people will be trying to decide on their own that it's ok to track their car in MDM mode or even worse, with DSC enabled.
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      11-15-2012, 10:48 AM   #95
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I am non-partisan when it comes to nannies...it's the BMWCCA required mentality for instructors.
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      11-15-2012, 02:15 PM   #96
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BMWCCA will look over your shoulder a lot...
SCCA and other like trackdaze will show you the ropes and then off you go.

BMWCCA seems very safe and reliable, almost to damn safe at times... no breathing room..
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      11-15-2012, 02:43 PM   #97
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Sounds exciting but I don't feel like i have the skills right now and Would be afraid of crashing my car.

Only way I would do it would be to learn with formal instructor first and then insure myself if I drive my own car. How much would that cost in addition to my current insurance?

Another problem is that I live in the boonies and would have to drive about 500 miles to the closest track where I could do this, so very time consuming as well in addition to job and parent responsibilities.
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      11-15-2012, 02:53 PM   #98
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Quote:
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Sounds exciting but I don't feel like i have the skills right now and Would be afraid of crashing my car.

Only way I would do it would be to learn with formal instructor first and then insure myself if I drive my own car. How much would that cost in addition to my current insurance?

Another problem is that I live in the boonies and would have to drive about 500 miles to the closest track where I could do this, so very time consuming as well in addition to job and parent responsibilities.
You won't ever have the skills to drive on the track until you start. Unless you're just starting out driving in general, more time driving on the road won't prepare you any better for the track. That's what the instructors are for.

You'll definitely have an instructor first, for your benefit and that of everyone around you. Track day/weekend events always have an instructor riding shotgun with you 100% of the time giving you immediate feedback on your driving until you get solo-qualified; if you ever see "open track day", those typically REQUIRE you to have become solo-qualified because those usually don't have instructors available, so that's not what you want starting out. Having an instructor with you definitely helps you relax and you learn a lot very quickly.

The cost of insurance varies based on carrier and the stated-value coverage amount you want for your car, but if you search Lockton HPDE insurance you can get an instant quote on their site.

Being afraid of crashing is precisely what will likely prevent you from crashing. The people who go out thinking they're world-class racing drivers on their first time out (or who turn DSC off because "that's what you're supposed to do on the track" without adjusting their driving style accordingly) are the people who tend to have trouble. Like I said earlier, excited trepidation is the perfect mindset for coming to the track your first time.

500 miles is definitely a long way to go even for a full-weekend event. It's pretty sweet though!
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Last edited by jphughan; 11-15-2012 at 03:12 PM.
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      11-15-2012, 03:44 PM   #99
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Some people are into top speed mile runs, some into drag racing, some find fun on road courses, and most just enjoy a causal weekend drive. People have different interests and road course is not for everyone. I have tracked my cars for years but this hobby does take a lot time, energy and money. There is no need to insult others that don't take part in this sport.
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      11-15-2012, 04:29 PM   #100
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As a BMWCCA and PCA instructor, I certainly encourage those who think they might like to try driving on a track to do so. It is a ton of fun and will definitely teach you about your car and make you a better driver. That said, I certainly would not berate anyone who chooses not to track their M3 - to each their own (even though you are kind of missing out )

The biggest counterpoint to tracking IMO is that many insurance companies will not cover an accident on a race track, even if it is an educational event and not a competitive driving event. Of course this varies, but I think it makes sense to be aware of this. Accidents do happen occasionally on both track and street and on the street you are guaranteed insurance will cover it.

Likelihood of damage also varies widely depending on track design. Someone mentioned Watkins Glen and that is a very unforgiving track with Armco everywhere. In contrast, Mid Ohio (my home track now) has very good run off areas and only a few places to smack into hard objects.

On a related note, if anyone in the greater Ohio area is on the fence and would like to check it out, let me know, I'd be glad to take you out on track (in my car) next season to give you a taste.
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      11-15-2012, 04:50 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
BTW, I always love when people come here (especially on these threads) and tell other people how they should drive their M3. That they wasted their money when they don't track it, or they should've bought a different car. Give me a fucking break. I'd love to meet folks like these on the track and see what they got... probably just a big mouth, little balls and no skill.

Everybody is enjoying their car differently, so just shut the fuck up and let folks drive their car how they want to.
You need to understand..
Buying an M3 and not tracking is same thing as buying a super-duper gaming computer and using it only for web browsing.
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      11-15-2012, 05:17 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3AN///AW View Post
I have 28 sessions on the Nurburgring over the course of the last two years with my E46 M3. I just picked up my 2013 E92 and, unfortunately, will have to wait until after the 1200 mile break-in and next spring to track it.
non-sense. put on the miles at the track. good way to properly break in the motor and diff.

i'll be there following weekend. gp track open.
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      11-15-2012, 05:21 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donovan View Post
BMWCCA will look over your shoulder a lot...
SCCA and other like trackdaze will show you the ropes and then off you go.

BMWCCA seems very safe and reliable, almost to damn safe at times... no breathing room..
no breathing room is paramount my friend. at 10/10ths there is no breathing room.
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      11-15-2012, 11:41 PM   #104
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At the very minimum, Once every other month, thats why I have an ///M3, or else why not just get a 328. And I have to travel at least 200+ miles to get to a track... Yes, I'm a trooper!

Located in Las Vegas, traveling to...

Chuckwalla Raceway: 227mi Google says 4 hrs, made it in 2.5 averaging 90mph at 3 in the morning

Willow Springs: 241mi Google says 4 hrs, made it in 3.25 hrs

Buttonwillow: 317mi Google says 5 hrs, made it in around 4 ish

I love my Escort Smart Radar.
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      11-15-2012, 11:47 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Jelly M3 View Post
You need to understand..
Buying an M3 and not tracking is same thing as buying a super-duper gaming computer and using it only for web browsing.
so So SO TRUE !!!
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      11-16-2012, 01:00 PM   #106
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It surprises me that no one (other than myself) has mentioned how valuable reading some books on driving fast can help both before and after one's first track experience. I have at least 10 books on the art and science of driving fast. From Piero Taruffi's The Technique of Motor Racing (1959) to Ross Bentley's Inner Speed Secrets series. All books had good things that helped me have more confidence on the track. Also I've many lapping days under my belts in a go-kart. There is no question that time in the kart also helped with my confidence. My main point is that there are all sorts of things that one can do to make their track days more enjoyable and safe.
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      11-16-2012, 03:36 PM   #107
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Brought my e92 M3 out to the track in 2009 after the break in period. Realized very quickly that it was way too much power for a novice so I bought an e36 M3 purely for the track. Since 2009 I go to the track 6x a year. I'm now in the advanced group and still loving the e36 M3. I now have an 2012 e92 M3 that i will eventually track.
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      11-16-2012, 06:19 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
The cost of insurance varies based on carrier and the stated-value coverage amount you want for your car, but if you search Lockton HPDE insurance you can get an instant quote on their site.
Lockton has been running about $50-$100 per $10k of stated values for single event coverage, with a deductible of $2k to 5% of stated value, whichever is greater. Once nice thing though is it's per event, not per day, so if can find 3+ day events (i.e. BMWCCA ofest), it can be a pretty good deal (conversely, insuring a single day is costly). I think Lockton also gives slight discounts for BMWCCA events, probably because BMWCCA pushes their insurance pretty hard.
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      11-16-2012, 06:37 PM   #109
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As Likelihood of damage also varies widely depending on track design. Someone mentioned Watkins Glen and that is a very unforgiving track with Armco everywhere. In contrast, Mid Ohio (my home track now) has very good run off areas and only a few places to smack into hard objects.
This is quite true, though at 2012 ofest, someone in my run group managed to almost flip their car somewhere around turn 4 or 5. Another car managed to hit the armco pretty good somewhere on the front straight I think. I've also heard that track can be treacherous in the ran. Not picking on Mid Ohio (I loved it, it was my first time there), but just making the point to others that accidents can happen anywhere. I think those that feel it's no more dangerous than the drive to the track have probably not been in the sport long enough.

Even discounting serious impact incidents, there are tons of things that can happen that make a drive home difficult if not impossible, assuming you are not trailering. The M3 is probably one of the best street to track vehicles, but for those that also DD it, it still seems far inferior to having a dedicated track vehicle. I know of course that not everyone can swing that option, for that remainder, please buy insurance.
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      11-16-2012, 06:49 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Our cars are popular for track use, with good reason. I'm curious what proportion of forum members take their ///M to the track.
I do, however, only to watch others never will I go on to a track ... I have my fun on the road observing speed limits (exceeding them by 10% then catapulting to overtake trucks).
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