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Mitt Romney 147 47.12%
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      11-03-2012, 11:23 PM   #133
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I know that being Canadian my opinion means zip but i really like Obama, the guy seems genuinely honest and sincere. Romney always seems to have that greasy gin on his face, he reminds me of bush
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      11-03-2012, 11:32 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
People who don't support "Obamacare", I'd really like to know your thoughts on what we should do if someone, who is healthy, chooses not to buy health insurance and gets into a bad accident or gets cancer or some other costly disease and can't afford to pay.

If some form of universal health care or mandated requirement to buy insurance is not enacted, should we:

1. Allow them to get free healthcare at the E/R (which all of us end up paying for anyway in the form of ever increasing health care costs)
2. Say fuck 'em. They didn't buy health insurance so just let them die.
3. Fill in the blank (I'm really curious about what the third option is. Conservatives love saying how shitty universal health care or the mandatory requirement to buy insurance is, but they have never articulated a viable solution. Please enlighten me.)

By the way, I am not liberal. Libertarian perhaps, but definitely not liberal. Personally, I like option 2. I think people have the right to not buy ANY insurance at all... but, by the same token, they should suffer the full consequences of their stupidity and die.

Since my POV is not practical, I do support the individual mandate concept in Obamacare. Why the fuck should the young and healthy not have health insurance? They could break their leg skateboarding or become a quadriplegic doing a 60-130 run or some other stupid shit that I admittedly did when I was young also. I would want them, or their parents, paying health insurance premiums so they don't get free care.


Well, from what I understand, those that opt out of the universal healthcare option would be hit with a tax. I would assume that those who go in through the ER would be covered under this tax. Could someone clarify this for me.
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      11-03-2012, 11:48 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by JoeyBananaz18 View Post
Well, from what I understand, those that opt out of the universal healthcare option would be hit with a tax. I would assume that those who go in through the ER would be covered under this tax. Could someone clarify this for me.
Yes. Those who don't buy insurance through their employer or in the private market are taxed. I know that. It's part of the "individual mandate" in Obamacare.

My question is, what is the alternative to Obamacare? If conservatives are so opposed to the individual mandate, what is their solution to the overall healthcare issue?
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      11-03-2012, 11:52 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
Yes. Those who don't buy insurance through their employer or in the private market are taxed. I know that. It's part of the "individual mandate" in Obamacare.

My question is, what is the alternative to Obamacare? If conservatives are so opposed to the individual mandate, what is their solution to the overall healthcare issues?
Ohhh I see. That's actually a very good question. Media outlets haven't gotten that far in their coverage lol
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      11-04-2012, 12:10 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
Yes. Those who don't buy insurance through their employer or in the private market are taxed. I know that. It's part of the "individual mandate" in Obamacare.

My question is, what is the alternative to Obamacare? If conservatives are so opposed to the individual mandate, what is their solution to the overall healthcare issue?
The alternative per the precious little that's been divulged is... Obamacare albeit with some tweaks..

Similar to what Romney instituted in MA..

That's why this whole healthcare debate has me
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      11-04-2012, 01:32 AM   #138
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Someone who doesn't respect women, their independence and equality, is not a man and definitely doesn't deserve to be the President of the free world.

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      11-04-2012, 01:52 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
People who don't support "Obamacare", I'd really like to know your thoughts on what we should do if someone, who is healthy, chooses not to buy health insurance and gets into a bad accident or gets cancer or some other costly disease and can't afford to pay.

If some form of universal health care or mandated requirement to buy insurance is not enacted, should we:

1. Allow them to get free healthcare at the E/R (which all of us end up paying for anyway in the form of ever increasing health care costs)
2. Say fuck 'em. They didn't buy health insurance so just let them die.
3. Fill in the blank (I'm really curious about what the third option is. Conservatives love saying how shitty universal health care or the mandatory requirement to buy insurance is, but they have never articulated a viable solution. Please enlighten me.)

By the way, I am not liberal. Libertarian perhaps, but definitely not liberal. Personally, I like option 2. I think people have the right to not buy ANY insurance at all... but, by the same token, they should suffer the full consequences of their stupidity and die.

Since my POV is not practical, I do support the individual mandate concept in Obamacare. Why the fuck should the young and healthy not have health insurance? They could break their leg skateboarding or become a quadriplegic doing a 60-130 run or some other stupid shit that I admittedly did when I was young also. I would want them, or their parents, paying health insurance premiums so they don't get free care.
The fact of the matter is that most people whom don't have health care rarely go to the doctors or hospital unless they are absolutely dying. People with health ins go to the hospital for a cold. It's those that have health care that generally abuse it which is why the premiums are so high. The truth of the matter is your again either make it free for all or leave it as is. Most hospitals have their own private funding that helps those that cannot afford to pay. It doesn't come from the government either.

If anything if the health care is put into affect you will be paying even higher premiums for health ins. And if you think your employer is going to pick up the difference you are nuts.

Somethings are better left alone. How about we deal with all the illegals we have in this country that send all their earned income back to their country.

How about we deal with welfare / section 8 reform first. I met a family they have 4 incomes and claim they only have 1 and the other people are registered at different addresses of friends, the 1 person claims they make low wages while getting welfare assistance section 8 for paying their rent and another program I can't think of the name. They pay nothing for food, nothing for rent, and the people whom live with the 1 person takes home a total house hold income over over 125k a year.

Right now we need to focus on making jobs in the us. Most places are not hiring, why? Because they aren't getting as much business as they were in the past, everything is outsourced for cheaper labor and yet salaries are getting lower but the cost of living is going up it. Companies will always be about the bottom line if I can do it cheaper else where, why not? You need to make it appealing for businesses in order to create jobs.

Again I stand by and say Obama only put union city workers back to work. In the last 20 years I've not seen as much road work as I have seen in the last year.

I lost my job but while I wait for the market to hopefully come back I'll be going back to school to study something else.
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      11-04-2012, 03:33 AM   #140
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Agreed. Killing someone on foreign soil without any due process is not something to be......

Okey so that was a lengthy response but I just have a few small rebuttals. So..idk whether romney actually agreed with what you first stated about the car industries so no comment on that.

I do not believe for a second the economy has gotten any better if that's what you were trying to say, gas prices have gone up and each household is now paying more in tax i don't know how anyone can be happy with the past 4 years. However Romney never said he wanted to cut the taxes of the rich, he said he wants to keep them the same and he didn't say he wanted to spend more on military programs, he said he didn't want to cut back on them how Obama wants to do. I believe he said he wanted to cut taxes on small businesses to give them an opportunity to hire more and that fixes part of the middle class problem.

I'm not saying for our president to be an overly aggressive one, which I believe Romney isn't however Obama is just weak. He said nothing about the revolution in Iran to give some support, he bowed to islamic leaders, he's losing our relationship with Israel, what happened in Libya, etc. the list is too long and evidently his foreign policy blows IMO.

And I'm almost certain it was an Embassy unless every headline is wrong and no it isn't made up, fyi factcheck.com is a COMPLETELY biased website willing to say anything to protect their precious president.

If you must compare a president to Romney I'd say the closest president was Reagan, many of their plans are similar. More so, Hoover was in a completely different era, times are much to different to compare. It's just not going to work out if more and more gov jobs are created with all the benefits plus salary they get, it's just too much for the tax payers to handel.

Well the scandal was that Obama used tax payers money to give to Solyndra and under the tabel they gave back some money before they went out to support Obamas campaign. Not too familiar with Tesla except from what I've seen on Top Gear and things didn't look too good for them from their point of view, cars are overpriced not many are going to be sold and they aren't very efficient distance wise I guess.

Even if you do believe Obamacare is such a great idea despite it's ridiculous name..now isn't the time to initiate it, like you said it's expensive we need to conserve at the moment.

Now about republicans being religious nuts..I'm not that religious fyi but from what he says is just, marriage is between a man and a woman and I think that's true and I feel that if you must have an abortion it should be within a early period of time.

And you can't bring companies over seas back here that don't want to come back unless they have some incentive. However that isn't the deal, almost every country has manufacturers in China, it's a global competition or else you'd be paying three or four times as much for your consumer goods as you would be if they were made in China, however 80% of the economy consists of small businesses, not these large manufacturers.

You can't say that what Obama says isn't an exaggeration or a lie either with evidence that he's been lying his whole presidency. Either way the new president shouldn't be the shiniest of two turds, politicians are all liars but I'll take my chances with Romney.
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      11-04-2012, 03:35 AM   #141
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Liberals are such hypocrites, they cry global warming and tell people to buy hybrids/electric cars but based on this poll, they love BMWs..Cant have both "ultimate driving machine" and "ultimate earth loving cars" at the same time.
Don't forget them crying to pull out of the middle east, until bin laden is killed the last year of his presidency and now he's the ultimate hero and savior and gets a nobel prize....bull.
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      11-04-2012, 04:21 AM   #142
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I honestly don't understand the Republican platform, it seems borderline irrational to me. How can you bang on about small government when you insist on increasing military sending and denying people the right to choose?

I certainly believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, but that doesn't mean I'm going to impose my belief's on somebody else. If my neighbor wants to marry someone of the same sex, who cares? That's their decision. I have serious moral reservations when it come to abortions. Nevertheless, there is no widespread consensus on when life begins, so I don't get to decide for everybody. Lastly, I don't get how you can be so passionately protect a featus, but be for the death penalty. What gives a judicial body the right to decide who dies? It's barbaric.
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      11-04-2012, 04:23 AM   #143
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Amini is clueless...
Telling me about the world recognition from his little apartment while I spend 60% of my time in the places he's never heard of, and have seen a strong change since Obama has taken the office.

Ford, GM, others are producing STRONG profits while wre dead 5 years ago.

I clearly said a MAJOR attack, and one Embassy in a totally anarchistic country is the "major" thing now. During Bush era, we were losein DAILY on average more people than under Obama in 4 years!

I am not saying Obama has fixed things, no. And how could he when he has a Congress that just wants to do everything opposite from him. On the other hand, he has started doing many things positive direction, while the guy before him has NOT done a single thing in positive direction. As someone has already said -- do you blame the person who set the fire to your house or the firefighter for not being able to put it out???

Job creation. Did not exist during Bush, especially during the 2006-09 period during and after Bush. 2009-12, it is positive and that is all that matters in the recovery process.

Homes are selling, new homes building.

FEMA today and FEMA during Katrina...don't even go there...

YES, Bush brought us to the brink of another Great Depression, Obama averted it the last minute.

Some people are just ridiculously biased.
HAHAHA I'm clueless? you're an old p.o.s. assuming things about me lol I just shut you down and I'm 18. Regardless of where you've been your mind is closed off to the rest of the world. lol I've been around the world, don't assume things you arrogant bum. Who are you to tell me who I am? You want me to tell you who you are? You're some bozo who made the mistake of buying a 335is instead of an m3 when you just had to pay a couple grand more for everything better. Someone who has too much time on there hands and no where else to go brag about how you "spend 60%" of your time places I apparently haven't heard of..where's that 60%..what part of the internet are you looking at that I haven't heart of? You sound like a kid in you're arguments so that makes me wonder how mature you are for your age. Regardless what you reply, you've made yourself a fool as it is so stop talking crap, bum.

Yea they were dead because they make shit cars and they can't compete with the rest of the market..they're failing companies they're bound to die.

Actually 2 embassies and at least Bush has some balls and didn't apologize like your boy, Obama. Okey that's what happens in war..news flash, but you're supposed to stand up for your country, which obama fails at.

Okey lets get a Republican president in so work can actually get done?? And hey great firefighters can save a few from the flames. buuutt it just seemed like he added fuel to the fire so what's your argument there bud? just full of excuses I see.

Really? So why is that under obamas presidency the unemployment rate is getting greater and greater and greater year after year? His unemployment rate peaked at 10% while bushes at just 5.8%

Unemployment has been at an all time high since right before Reagan stepped in, I'd assume you'd know something about something and the similarities between Romney and Reagan and notice a pattern but no...I guess you're right..some people really are biased, like 80% of the news media, you know? The 80% you only listen to?
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      11-04-2012, 04:35 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue View Post
I honestly don't understand the Republican platform, it's borderline irrational. How can you bang on about small government when you insist on increasing military sending and denying people the right to choose?

I certainly believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, but that doesn't mean I'm going to impose my belief's on somebody else. If my neighbor wants to marry someone of the same sex, who cares? That's their decision. I have serious moral reservations when it come to abortions. Nevertheless, there is no widespread consensus on when life begins, so I don't get to decide for everybody. Lastly, I don't get how you can be so passionately protect a featus, but be for the death penalty. What gives a judicial body the right to decide who dies? It's barbaric.
He doesn't want to increase military spending, just keep it as it is. Obama wants to lower the spending, that's a common misconception of a part of his plan.

IMO gays do it worse by forcing it onto the public through gay pride parades making out on the streets, demonstrating in front of Chic-fil-A by groping each other (seen it ughh..), demanding gay marriage to be taught early in school to naive kids, all in all it isn't natural but if you must...please please keep it to themselves. I, and a lot of republicans, believe that if there's a need for abortion, it should be done as early as possible (not a few months in) because you know, rape and what not :/ and you don't want a to bring a child in you can't raise so let it be done early. And the death penalty..well have you heard of that one USC football player back in the 80s I believe whose house was broken into, his mother murdered, and his sister raped then murdered? Telling me THIS barbarian deserves to live? He's on death row STILL along with ~3000 or so people and many just like him..

Honestly IMO I feel republicans are more so logic and future planning while democrats are feelings and quick fixes, as insulting as that sounds..that's IN MY OPINION.
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      11-04-2012, 06:39 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Amini77 View Post
He doesn't want to increase military spending, just keep it as it is. Obama wants to lower the spending, that's a common misconception of a part of his plan.

IMO gays do it worse by forcing it onto the public through gay pride parades making out on the streets, demonstrating in front of Chic-fil-A by groping each other (seen it ughh..), demanding gay marriage to be taught early in school to naive kids, all in all it isn't natural but if you must...please please keep it to themselves. I, and a lot of republicans, believe that if there's a need for abortion, it should be done as early as possible (not a few months in) because you know, rape and what not :/ and you don't want a to bring a child in you can't raise so let it be done early. And the death penalty..well have you heard of that one USC football player back in the 80s I believe whose house was broken into, his mother murdered, and his sister raped then murdered? Telling me THIS barbarian deserves to live? He's on death row STILL along with ~3000 or so people and many just like him..

Honestly IMO I feel republicans are more so logic and future planning while democrats are feelings and quick fixes, as insulting as that sounds..that's IN MY OPINION.
Dude, the US spends a disproportionate amount of money on the Military. Even if you're right, my point still stands. Keeping military spending the same given the county's current fiscal crisis is irresponsible beyond belief.

I'm sorry, being homophobic isn't anyone's problem but your own. I'm not sure if you're suggesting there should be legislation against gays freely expressing themselves, but if you are ,then that's one biggeted idea.

I don't think anyone disagrees with your point about abortions being performed as early in a pregnancy as possible.

The majority of murderers and rapists have undergone severe trauma or abuse themselves. A just society has the responsibly to take dangerous people out of the general public where they can harm to other's, but taking their lives is barbaric.

You're a young and passionate guy, which is great. Once you go to college, I'm sure you'll start to look at things a little less idealistically and more critically.
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      11-04-2012, 08:15 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amini77 View Post
He doesn't want to increase military spending, just keep it as it is. Obama wants to lower the spending, that's a common misconception of a part of his plan.

IMO gays do it worse by forcing it onto the public through gay pride parades making out on the streets, demonstrating in front of Chic-fil-A by groping each other (seen it ughh..), demanding gay marriage to be taught early in school to naive kids, all in all it isn't natural but if you must...please please keep it to themselves. I, and a lot of republicans, believe that if there's a need for abortion, it should be done as early as possible (not a few months in) because you know, rape and what not :/ and you don't want a to bring a child in you can't raise so let it be done early. And the death penalty..well have you heard of that one USC football player back in the 80s I believe whose house was broken into, his mother murdered, and his sister raped then murdered? Telling me THIS barbarian deserves to live? He's on death row STILL along with ~3000 or so people and many just like him..

Honestly IMO I feel republicans are more so logic and future planning while democrats are feelings and quick fixes, as insulting as that sounds..that's IN MY OPINION.
If you have a penis and not a vagina please stfu about abortion, that goes for all other republicans. A womens body is her business and she can do wtf she wants with it. Please keep the moral talk bs to your selves because show me a republican that is against abortion, I ll show you a republican that would have his daughter have an abortion if she was raped or got peragnant by her boyfriend that happened to be a black man in a heart beat. Regarding military spending... It's time to stop making enemy's over seas, bring our troops home and let's build this country within and secure her borders within. I have lost friends in the military, ask their parents, kids and wife's what they rathered had a year ago... Troops in Iraq or having them back at home. While your at it, why don't you go to Iraq and find the WMDs that your party was so eager to find and send thousands of young men and women to ther deaths.
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      11-04-2012, 08:30 AM   #147
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Romney stated that Obama is pushing for revenge voting, the republican media jumped all over it as if this is news...I didn't mind what Obama said at all. In fact I was already voting for revenge before Obama even said it. I'm voting to spit in the face of a hypocritical, jacka**, filibuster-happy congress that has done nothing but throw the American people under the bus in an attempt to regain power. These hypocrites (including Paul Ryan) wrote a blank check to Bush for 8 years but conveniently got "conservative" when they lost. I'm voting for revenge because of Republicans suddenly trying to pass voter ID laws and kill early voting to obviously suppress the vote. I'm voting for revenge of the GOP trying to buy an election with the Citizens United crap. I don't want to see their actions of the last 3+ years rewarded with the presidency because it will do nothing but encourage these fools to keep trying these tactics in the future. Mitt Romney talks about voting for love of country? Well I see no love of country from the GOP. I see nothing but contempt and I've grown sick of the birther talks they've fed into, the ignorance they spout, and the blatant obstructionism.

I don't like Mitt Romney and I don't trust him. He strikes me as a guy who feels he's entitled and wants to be president not to help people or this country, but to have a legacy. And he has shown time and time again that he will abandon all principles and integrity to get what he wants. He's been shape-shifting himself for the last 6-7 years for this moment. I believe the man stands for nothing but his own ambition and I would take much pleasure in seeing him fail. His economic policies are the same old crap we've seen the last 30 years. Reagan cut taxes, had no revenue to pay for it and put it on the govt credit card. Bush? More tax cuts, no revenue to pay for it, put it on the govt credit card. Romney wants to continue down the same path on steroids. Ask him or Paul Ryan to do the math to make their plans work? You hear crickets.More of the same BS of the last 30 years and people still want more. It's amazing to me.
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      11-04-2012, 08:53 AM   #148
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And what is this crap with Romney encouraging employers to coerse their employees into voting for him?

There's no difference between saying:
Vote for Romney or you'll loose your Job
&
-Vote for Ronmey or we'll take your home away
-Vote for Romney or we'll starve your kids
-Vote for Romney or we'll take your BMW away (possibly the most compelling argument )

How can anyone not see how pervasive that is? Disgusting stuff.
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      11-04-2012, 09:13 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue View Post
I honestly don't understand the Republican platform, it seems borderline irrational to me. How can you bang on about small government when you insist on increasing military sending and denying people the right to choose?

I certainly believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, but that doesn't mean I'm going to impose my belief's on somebody else. If my neighbor wants to marry someone of the same sex, who cares? That's their decision. I have serious moral reservations when it come to abortions. Nevertheless, there is no widespread consensus on when life begins, so I don't get to decide for everybody. Lastly, I don't get how you can be so passionately protect a featus, but be for the death penalty. What gives a judicial body the right to decide who dies? It's barbaric.
+1.. I think the GOP always had serious moral hypocrisy. It's probably at its worst now.. The government has no business instructing citizens in matters of social choice in the name of religion or anything else.. It's anti-secular and anti-democratic.
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      11-04-2012, 10:20 AM   #150
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My question is, what is the alternative to Obamacare? If conservatives are so opposed to the individual mandate, what is their solution to the overall healthcare issue?
The ER?
That's what Romney said people should do. But that doesn't sound like a financially sound solution to me. Patch it up at the most expensive price is not exactly the best health or financial policy.
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      11-04-2012, 10:34 AM   #151
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You're funny, let me simplify it for you even more. If you BMW gets 26 mpg and your wife gets 30 mpg, your combined mpg for the family is 28 mpg not 4 mpg as you'd stated. I'll give you a nice big hug since you think that i'm starting calling you name even though it is an observation. LOL, you guys make me laugh so hard, thx for the entertainment
I thought it was pretty straightforward, but it appears I need to clarify it:
(1) I didn't say anything about combined MPG. I stated the difference in MPG between an "economy" car and my 328i.
(2) You started the name calling by calling us liberals hypocrites.

Please save your hugs for your fellow conservatives. You are going to need to support each other after you lose on Tuesday.

Last edited by driverman; 11-04-2012 at 10:52 AM.
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      11-04-2012, 10:43 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Solonng View Post
Pretty close, the poster claims 4 extra mpg to the vehicle but that is to assume that he doesnt drive his BMW and I think that is unlikely..so, it is a lie when making that statement.

LOL, my math assumes 50% split between the husband and wife and be glad to show you another set of scenario. I can show you elementary math if you wish. Out of curiosity, how does the poster gets to drive a BMW when his wife drives a Honda..I need to find more women like that..Congrats!
No lies here. Just your apparent inability to read and interpret a simple statement:

"I'm getting 26 mpg in my 328i; my wife gets 30 in her Honda Civic."

You are not representing your fellow conservatives very well.
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      11-04-2012, 10:47 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Joe- View Post

If anything if the health care is put into affect you will be paying even higher premiums for health ins. And if you think your employer is going to pick up the difference you are nuts.

Somethings are better left alone. How about we deal with all the illegals we have in this country that send all their earned income back to their country.

How about we deal with welfare / section 8 reform first... <snipped for brevity>.
In other words, neither Romney nor any Republicans have put forth a credible alternative to Obamacare. Not a surprise that you talked about everything BUT healthcare reform.

Instead of just saying "I will repeal Obamacare on day one" I'd love to hear Romney's solution.... except I already have.... it's Romney's healthcare plan in Massachussetts that Obamacare was patterned after! Ironic? Or just plain hypocritical?
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      11-04-2012, 10:47 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Sam335ix View Post
I don't like Mitt Romney and I don't trust him. He strikes me as a guy who feels he's entitled and wants to be president not to help people or this country, but to have a legacy. And he has shown time and time again that he will abandon all principles and integrity to get what he wants. He's been shape-shifting himself for the last 6-7 years for this moment. I believe the man stands for nothing but his own ambition and I would take much pleasure in seeing him fail. His economic policies are the same old crap we've seen the last 30 years. Reagan cut taxes, had no revenue to pay for it and put it on the govt credit card. Bush? More tax cuts, no revenue to pay for it, put it on the govt credit card. Romney wants to continue down the same path on steroids. Ask him or Paul Ryan to do the math to make their plans work? You hear crickets.More of the same BS of the last 30 years and people still want more. It's amazing to me.
Well said!
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