BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
GTB Performance
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-26-2012, 04:13 AM   #1
davramic
Private
davramic's Avatar
1
Rep
77
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3 Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Honolulu, HI

iTrader: (3)

ESS VT-535 vs VT2-575

I am currently trying to plan out the next wave of mods after my initial cosmetic, exhaust and wheel mods.

Next, I am looking at adding a supercharger for the next performance boost.

I use the car for daily driving and have zero plans to track the car. As such, I am less concerned for improvements in 60-120 times (hell, I have only gone over 100 once in my life lol) or overall top speed, but rather prefer to focus on increasing initial acceleration (0-60mph) for all those punk kids challenging me at stop lights (mostly joking, but definitely happens).

Thoughts? Is the VT535 adequate for my goals? Should I combine it with an LSD, Or would the LSD alone suffice? Increase to the VT2575 with or without the LSD?

Cost is also an issue; while I am not counting pennies, I'm also not fortunate enough to have an endless budget.

Your thoughts, experience and recommendations would be helpful!
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2012, 05:19 AM   #2
dpohlman
Private
United_States
3
Rep
92
Posts

 
Drives: e92 M3 (Space Grey) ESS V1 535
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Iowa

iTrader: (0)

I own a VT-1 535, and I have been very happy with it. You will see a solid gain in the 0 - 60 range. You really feel the difference at the RPMs are in the 5,000 on up range.

As a daily driver, it will feel like stock, but when you allow the RPMs to climb, it becomes something dramatically faster and more powerful than stock.

One situation where I see as very different from stock is in the passing power capability. The speed climbs very quickly as the RPMs build. In fact, 60 - 100 happens in a little more that a blink.

Like I said earlier, you will get some improvement in your 0 - 60 time, but much of really contributes to low times in that time speed range is your ability to retain traction. Even with the VT-1 535, you can break the tires loose in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Getting the traction needed to really impact the 0 - 60 time is still an issue.

For your purposes, I am confident you will have NO regrets going with either the VT-1 535, or the VT-2 575. In fact, you likely won't see any difference between the two in the 0 - 60 range.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2012, 05:47 AM   #3
1SICKM
Captain
1SICKM's Avatar
15
Rep
975
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 M3 E92
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Mansfield, NJ

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpohlman
I own a VT-1 535, and I have been very happy with it. You will see a solid gain in the 0 - 60 range. You really feel the difference at the RPMs are in the 5,000 on up range.

As a daily driver, it will feel like stock, but when you allow the RPMs to climb, it becomes something dramatically faster and more powerful than stock.

One situation where I see as very different from stock is in the passing power capability. The speed climbs very quickly as the RPMs build. In fact, 60 - 100 happens in a little more that a blink.

Like I said earlier, you will get some improvement in your 0 - 60 time, but much of really contributes to low times in that time speed range is your ability to retain traction. Even with the VT-1 535, you can break the tires loose in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Getting the traction needed to really impact the 0 - 60 time is still an issue.

For your purposes, I am confident you will have NO regrets going with either the VT-1 535, or the VT-2 575. In fact, you likely won't see any difference between the two in the 0 - 60 range.
The 535 is the best bang for your buck 0-80. The other kits offer more power above that. Since you have the money, jump to the 600 kit. You won't see much difference between the 575 and 535
__________________
E92 M3 DCT...Powered by ESS VT2 650/DCT GTS Software/Aquamist HFS-3 50/50/Morr /Toyo R888's

ATCO RACEWAY: 10.65 @ 131.79MPH 1.725 60FT
(Stock ESS 625)
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2012, 05:51 AM   #4
pbonsalb
Lieutenant Colonel
21
Rep
1,796
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

iTrader: (3)

The M3 already has an LSD. You could buy an aftermarket diff with LSD and shorter gears for better torque multiplication. A few people have done this. Dinan sells them for 6MT and DCT.

The problem with being interested in only the 0-60 is that is the hardest part of the acceleration curve to improve. It depends heavily on the launch. On stock street tires, there is a limit to what you can do and more power will eventually just overwhelm the tires. Do you plan to run wider tires or switch to drag radials? Do you use launch control for these encounters?

I doubt you would be able to measure much difference between the 535 and 575 in the 0-60. Where the 575 might benefit you in HI is the intercooling that reduces heatsoak in hot weather and thus provides more consistency in performance. But if you are just going for the occasional single 0-60 run, I don't think heatsoak is going to be a problem.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2012, 07:44 AM   #5
GOLFFRR
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
GOLFFRR's Avatar
275
Rep
17,354
Posts


 
Drives: Golf Cart
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Solvang, CA/Camarillo, CA

iTrader: (4)

If you are not so worried about cost then go with the biggest kit you can swing. Go big or go home thats what I say . If you know you are eventually going to want to get more power you might as well save your time and go with the big dog upfront

I went with the ESS vt2600 and this kit is insane! Either way you go all the ESS kits are top notch and you will be very impressed and happy! looking forward to reading what you pick and your review!
__________________

BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, EMAIL US FIRST WE CAN HOOK YOU UP!
Need a quote or assistance from David? GO HERE-->bmwdavid@icloud.com or 202-262-2900
David's ED special ALL M cars-->http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1042739
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2012, 09:47 AM   #6
davramic
Private
davramic's Avatar
1
Rep
77
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3 Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Honolulu, HI

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
The M3 already has an LSD. You could buy an aftermarket diff with LSD and shorter gears for better torque multiplication. A few people have done this. Dinan sells them for 6MT and DCT.

The problem with being interested in only the 0-60 is that is the hardest part of the acceleration curve to improve. It depends heavily on the launch. On stock street tires, there is a limit to what you can do and more power will eventually just overwhelm the tires. Do you plan to run wider tires or switch to drag radials? Do you use launch control for these encounters?

I doubt you would be able to measure much difference between the 535 and 575 in the 0-60. Where the 575 might benefit you in HI is the intercooling that reduces heatsoak in hot weather and thus provides more consistency in performance. But if you are just going for the occasional single 0-60 run, I don't think heatsoak is going to be a problem.
Thanks for the thoughts!

I've looked at the Dinan 3.42, there was a chart posted demonstrating the stock differential vs the various Dinan models and that seems most applicable for my goals.

Only stationed in Hawaii so lord knows where I will end up next, but army bases tend mostly in hot, usually humid climates (the south and southwest/Texas).

I have the ZCP package but changed my wheels with purchase of the Arkym J12 in 9" front and 10" rear (currently on order). It was recommended going with the 275/35/19 in the rear.

Does this information help? Thanks!
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2012, 11:31 AM   #7
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
328
Rep
10,632
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
If even remotely thinking about going with the VT2 setups, I would recommend going that direction as a number of items need to be upgraded on the 535 to bring it up to VT2 specs:

Manifold
Added cooling system
Injectors
Pulley
Software

535 systems are good for about 475whp on our dyno, the 600s are putting about ~530whp, keeping control of IATs during heavy use - something to think about if residing in Texas.

Feel free to contact me directly if you should have any questions on the ESS systems and I'll be happy to help.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2012, 11:36 AM   #8
lenzm3edan
First Pride
lenzm3edan's Avatar
22
Rep
1,411
Posts

 
Drives: E90, Mercedes C300, subi
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut..

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
If even remotely thinking about going with the VT2 setups, I would recommend going that direction as a number of items need to be upgraded on the 535 to bring it up to VT2 specs:

Manifold
Added cooling system
Injectors
Pulley
Software

535 systems are good for about 475whp on our dyno, the 600s are putting about ~530whp, keeping control of IATs during heavy use - something to think about if residing in Texas.

Feel free to contact me directly if you should have any questions on the ESS systems and I'll be happy to help.

What are these systems putting down 1/4 mile times? (535, 575 and 600) with testpipe estimated on 6spd and DCT? Sorry OP not trying to thread jack.
__________________
ESS VT-2 595 silverstone E90 /// M3 - 6spd - AD08 - Spacers - H&R - AA exhaust - Primary cat delete - Custom test pipes - ESS tune - Lighted ZHP.


Last edited by lenzm3edan; 10-26-2012 at 11:42 AM.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2012, 11:43 AM   #9
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
328
Rep
10,632
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenzm3edan View Post
What are these systems putting down 1/4 mile times? (535, 575 and 600)
Most recent 1/4mi thread was posted here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=761516

Others will be able to chime in with their experiences I'm sure.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2012, 11:47 AM   #10
lenzm3edan
First Pride
lenzm3edan's Avatar
22
Rep
1,411
Posts

 
Drives: E90, Mercedes C300, subi
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut..

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Most recent 1/4mi thread was posted here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=761516

Others will be able to chime in with their experiences I'm sure.
__________________
ESS VT-2 595 silverstone E90 /// M3 - 6spd - AD08 - Spacers - H&R - AA exhaust - Primary cat delete - Custom test pipes - ESS tune - Lighted ZHP.

Appreciate 0
      10-28-2012, 07:36 PM   #11
Valentino_RS
Captain
Valentino_RS's Avatar
United_States
31
Rep
777
Posts

 
Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Earth

iTrader: (17)

In this video it seems like the 535 vs full bolt on dct don't make much of difference from 20-120mph. By the way, there is not much road to play here on Oahu, other then airport and H3. You should also get wider tires something like 295 rear and 265 front for more traction if you are planning to supercharger it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=rJXyeORKFfs
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2012, 09:54 PM   #12
davramic
Private
davramic's Avatar
1
Rep
77
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3 Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Honolulu, HI

iTrader: (3)

Hey bud, is there like a Cars & Coffee or local m3 group in Honolulu?

Truth about the roads... HPD has already snagged me for 3 tickets too, joy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino_RS View Post
In this video it seems like the 535 vs full bolt on dct don't make much of difference from 20-120mph. By the way, there is not much road to play here on Oahu, other then airport and H3. You should also get wider tires something like 295 rear and 265 front for more traction if you are planning to supercharger it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=rJXyeORKFfs
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2012, 10:20 PM   #13
Longboarder
Brigadier General
65
Rep
3,794
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2013 WRX STi  [4.00]
2011 997.2 Turbo S  [4.71]
2013 e92 M3  [4.55]
2013 BMW X5  [0.00]
Firstly, you probably bought the wrong car if you are terribly concerned with 0-60. Slapping on a blower will probably make it slower, not quicker...because traction is the issue. Here's what you should do > get Michelin Pilot Super Sports and a V-Box. Practice is your friend.

I spend a lot of time on O'ahu and the roads are sh*t and often wet. It demands all-wheel drive and more tire than what is on the M3. A perfect place for the Jeep SRT8 or BMW X5M...but the M3...not so much.
__________________
Daily: 2013 e92 M3 DCT / ESS VT2 650 S/C / Akrapovic Evolution / StopTech BBK
Track/Airstrip: 2011 997.2 Turbo S PDK / 725 HP / BBi suspension build
Beater: 2013 X5 3.5sport
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2012, 10:30 PM   #14
davramic
Private
davramic's Avatar
1
Rep
77
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3 Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Honolulu, HI

iTrader: (3)

Good points bud, but only stationed here another year or so then back to the states, possibly Texas.

Is your m3 on Oahu or Monarch Beach? Any place your recommend for work on adding mods on island?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Firstly, you probably bought the wrong car if you are terribly concerned with 0-60. Slapping on a blower will probably make it slower, not quicker...because traction is the issue. Here's what you should do > get Michelin Pilot Super Sports and a V-Box. Practice is your friend.

I spend a lot of time on O'ahu and the roads are sh*t and often wet. It demands all-wheel drive and more tire than what is on the M3. A perfect place for the Jeep SRT8 or BMW X5M...but the M3...not so much.
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2012, 10:37 PM   #15
Valentino_RS
Captain
Valentino_RS's Avatar
United_States
31
Rep
777
Posts

 
Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Earth

iTrader: (17)

Quote:
Originally Posted by davramic View Post
Hey bud, is there like a Cars & Coffee or local m3 group in Honolulu?

Truth about the roads... HPD has already snagged me for 3 tickets too, joy.
There is Cars & Coffee every held on the second Sunday of each month between 8:00 - 10:00 am at Ala Moana 2nd floor by sears. Mostly are all Porsches there. There is no M3 group here, more like a bmw club.

You should install laser jammer here in Hawaii, don't brother with radar detector cause it is useless here. And if you have mods on your car make sure you get a recon safety inspection, if a cop pull you over he will have the right to fine you and tow your car if you don't have recon done.

I'm very close to order an 535 myself from eas, but I'm still think if I should safe up for the 600 kit. Kevin@eas have pmed me a very good deal for the 535 kit, if we both get it maybe be they will give us a even better price lol.

Let me know if you have any question on which shop you should go get your car work on here, wheels alignment and paint. Because there are a lot of shady shop here.
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2012, 10:41 PM   #16
Longboarder
Brigadier General
65
Rep
3,794
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2013 WRX STi  [4.00]
2011 997.2 Turbo S  [4.71]
2013 e92 M3  [4.55]
2013 BMW X5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by davramic View Post
Good points bud, but only stationed here another year or so then back to the states, possibly Texas.

Is your m3 on Oahu or Monarch Beach? Any place your recommend for work on adding mods on island?
Ok. I'd definitely wait on the blower then. Prices have fallen a bit lately and could continue as competition heats up as volumes are increasing. Get one when you are in Texas. Much better support there. How many supercharged e9X M3's are even on O'ahu?

I had an M when I lived full time years back (Kaimalino - north end of Kailua) but the thing just sat in my garage and so I sold it. Drove an SUV but mostly an old island-style Honda Accord since I drove to the North Shore a lot to surf and didn't want to worry about break-ins.

The M3 is soooo much car for O'ahu....you can't even begin to explore it's limits. Except maybe on the H3...but that's the only place I got a speeding ticket in the last 20 years.
__________________
Daily: 2013 e92 M3 DCT / ESS VT2 650 S/C / Akrapovic Evolution / StopTech BBK
Track/Airstrip: 2011 997.2 Turbo S PDK / 725 HP / BBi suspension build
Beater: 2013 X5 3.5sport
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2012, 10:45 PM   #17
Valentino_RS
Captain
Valentino_RS's Avatar
United_States
31
Rep
777
Posts

 
Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Earth

iTrader: (17)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Firstly, you probably bought the wrong car if you are terribly concerned with 0-60. Slapping on a blower will probably make it slower, not quicker...because traction is the issue. Here's what you should do > get Michelin Pilot Super Sports and a V-Box. Practice is your friend.

I spend a lot of time on O'ahu and the roads are sh*t and often wet. It demands all-wheel drive and more tire than what is on the M3. A perfect place for the Jeep SRT8 or BMW X5M...but the M3...not so much.
+1 Longboarder is right. Roads are shit here, lazy ass workers take month to fix the damm road and still do a shit job.

I see that you order 19x9 and 19x10, should of get 19x9.5 and 19x11 Michelin Pilot Super Sports 265 F and 295 R. And even this setup your wheels will not hook till 3rd gear if you get the 535 kit.

Longboarder as far as I know there are two supercharge m3 on here one e90 ess 535 and one e92 active
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2012, 11:11 PM   #18
Longboarder
Brigadier General
65
Rep
3,794
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2013 WRX STi  [4.00]
2011 997.2 Turbo S  [4.71]
2013 e92 M3  [4.55]
2013 BMW X5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino_RS View Post
+1 Longboarder is right. Roads are shit here, lazy ass workers take month to fix the damm road and still do a shit job.
So true! But sometimes waaaaay worse. From 2003 to 2006 the main street by our house in beachside Kailua (Kalaheo) was down completely to cars!! And there are huge potholes that just seemingly appear out of nowhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino_RS View Post
Longboarder as far as I know there are two supercharge m3 on here one e90 ess 535 and one e92 active
Interesting good to know. Daily drivers or Hot Import Nights show cars?
__________________
Daily: 2013 e92 M3 DCT / ESS VT2 650 S/C / Akrapovic Evolution / StopTech BBK
Track/Airstrip: 2011 997.2 Turbo S PDK / 725 HP / BBi suspension build
Beater: 2013 X5 3.5sport
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2012, 11:21 PM   #19
davramic
Private
davramic's Avatar
1
Rep
77
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3 Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Honolulu, HI

iTrader: (3)

Yes, HUGE question on where to go for work! I have a lot to do, from a alekshop media box to an exhaust to wheels. Recommendations for an honest, quality shop would be VERY helpful.

Hmm maybe as a small group buy huh?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino_RS View Post
There is Cars & Coffee every held on the second Sunday of each month between 8:00 - 10:00 am at Ala Moana 2nd floor by sears. Mostly are all Porsches there. There is no M3 group here, more like a bmw club.

You should install laser jammer here in Hawaii, don't brother with radar detector cause it is useless here. And if you have mods on your car make sure you get a recon safety inspection, if a cop pull you over he will have the right to fine you and tow your car if you don't have recon done.

I'm very close to order an 535 myself from eas, but I'm still think if I should safe up for the 600 kit. Kevin@eas have pmed me a very good deal for the 535 kit, if we both get it maybe be they will give us a even better price lol.

Let me know if you have any question on which shop you should go get your car work on here, wheels alignment and paint. Because there are a lot of shady shop here.
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2012, 11:27 PM   #20
saeedg48
Brigadier General
Iran
132
Rep
3,499
Posts

 
Drives: 12 CLS63 + 14 M6 C
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Unknown

iTrader: (1)

do it once, do it right.
__________________


2008 M3 Sedan + TestPipes + Tune [sold]

2012 CLS63 AMG + P30 Performance Package
2014 M6 Coupe + AMS Downpipes + KW V3
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2012, 11:28 PM   #21
Valentino_RS
Captain
Valentino_RS's Avatar
United_States
31
Rep
777
Posts

 
Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Earth

iTrader: (17)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Interesting good to know. Daily drivers or Hot Import Nights show cars?
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2012, 11:42 PM   #22
Valentino_RS
Captain
Valentino_RS's Avatar
United_States
31
Rep
777
Posts

 
Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Earth

iTrader: (17)

Quote:
Originally Posted by davramic View Post
Yes, HUGE question on where to go for work! I have a lot to do, from a alekshop media box to an exhaust to wheels. Recommendations for an honest, quality shop would be VERY helpful.

Hmm maybe as a small group buy huh?

Exhaust install or buy exhuast? If is install, I would DIY if you have the time.

For installing tires and alignment I would go to "hawaiian tire and auto center". I only trust them to install tires on my wheels. Been to other shop and fucked up my wheels.

For exhaust mod, or installing supercharge I will go" rad motorsports " ask for Wil. They just made a custom x pipe for exhaust, the exhaust did a bad ass welding job.

For body shop, "JL Auto Body Works". My car just got keyed ( lots of hater here) they repainted my rear quarter panel and it was 100% paint matched. Cost some $$$$ but really know what they are doing?

For auto detailing " Shea's Luxury Detail ", hear they are very good.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:04 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST