BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
PYSPEED
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-01-2013, 11:04 PM   #67
Obioban
Captain
 
Drives: 05 M3, 95 M3 euro, 01 M5, e91
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Chester, PA

Posts: 825
iTrader: (0)

BTW, I'm not saying everyone should agree with me. The e9X M3 is faster and more comfortable, which clearly, by the direction BMW continually takes the car, is what people want. I (a minority) just don't happen to agree.

Then again, I don't really like anything any car company is doing these days outside of a select few Porsche models. BMW only makes one model I'd be willing to own at this point, with the e90 M3 out of production-- the e82 128i. 3100 lbs and 285 NA hp with headers, tune, and a factory intake does appeal to me!
__________________

Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2001 LMB/blk M5, Wife's e91, 1995 S50 B32 GT3 RS Green M3 Race Car
Former Cars: 2004 TiAg/IR M3, 1996 TV/black M3, 1995 AW M3 shell
M3 Mod List, M5 Mod List
Obioban is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-01-2013, 11:41 PM   #68
HighandDry
Private First Class
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seattle

Posts: 108
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
Its just silly to think the e46 m3 is better in any measurable way. As it should not be just like the F80 will be better in every objective measure. Sure nostalgia may make the e46 m3 "better" in someones mind but in this thread it is a case when someone who can't have an e90 m3 and has an e46 m3, we convince ourselves what we have is better in some way and actually start to believe it. Just like the 30 mpg. Like you said maybe he saw one time going 50 on the highway he got 30mpg and now believes the car gets 30mpg in general on the highway.

I would love an e46 m3 in the stall with my e90 m3 but if you had to pick one it is really a no brainer.

The only reason I can see truly choosing an older version of a car will be when the F80 comes out given its engine is completely a different concept than traditional M3 engines with turbo and low revs. But the e90 v8 builds on the high-rev cocept and makes more power per litre, has higher revs and screams louder and screeches like crazy up high in a similar but different fashion than the e46. So if you liked the S54, there is no way you would not like the s65 better. Especially given it weighs less!
Before I bought a M3, I was looking at Porsches.

Almost pulled the trigger on a 997. Didn't really like the 991 as much. Yes it was faster, but at that level for a DD who cares (and yes I can afford the 991). Just felt that the 997 is a better platform.

Would anyone choose a 996 over a 993? The 996 is much faster and more modern, but very few who have driven both are going to pick the 996. Sure last of the air cooled, but it's more than that.

The same with the M3. It's not like people are priced out of the E9X (everyday there's some 19 yo buying one on this forum ). It's priced pretty low at this time for a used model. Some people just prefer the E46. Don't see why it's so difficult to understand that.
HighandDry is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-02-2013, 01:42 AM   #69
zamboni
I want to drive a Zamboni
 
zamboni's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 E82 128i 13 E93 M3
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Monte Sereno, CA

Posts: 3,107
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2013 BMW E93 M3  [0.00]
2009 E82 128i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
btw, my E90 M3 can also get 30 mpgs. I have to drive at 50 mph in 6th gear on a flat road, but again, what's the point? If I wanted mpgs, i would bought a prius.
Well said not to mention the EDC feature plus many other setting on E9X M3 that E46 is missing, not so sure about 6MT but SMG is horrible on E46 slow & sluggish.
__________________
13 E93 M3 Melbourne Red DCT/Premium/EDC/NAV/220M wheel
12 E93 Space Gray ( Retired BMW buy back )
09 E82 Space Gray/Black int/Steps/Sport/Nav/Premium/Xenon/Phone Int/Hifi/269 wheel
2006 E90 ( sold )
My next vehicle would be a Zamboni
zamboni is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-02-2013, 01:58 AM   #70
Powerbeast
Major General
 
Powerbeast's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3 Dakar Yellow
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SoCal

Posts: 6,881
iTrader: (4)

E90 M3 if that's in your price range, E46 M3 is an awesome car but the upkeep might be slightly higher.
Powerbeast is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-02-2013, 03:31 AM   #71
M3takesNYC
Banned
 
Drives: m3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYC

Posts: 426
iTrader: (0)

Just because a lot of 19 year olds buy one, does not mean its in everyones price range, especially new. Even used ones can perhaps be bought but people then are often unable to afford cost of ownership, repairs that cost a lot etc. So an e90 m3 is not in everybodies budget I am afraid, new or used
M3takesNYC is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-02-2013, 06:47 AM   #72
Obioban
Captain
 
Drives: 05 M3, 95 M3 euro, 01 M5, e91
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Chester, PA

Posts: 825
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighandDry View Post
Before I bought a M3, I was looking at Porsches.

Almost pulled the trigger on a 997. Didn't really like the 991 as much. Yes it was faster, but at that level for a DD who cares (and yes I can afford the 991). Just felt that the 997 is a better platform.

Would anyone choose a 996 over a 993? The 996 is much faster and more modern, but very few who have driven both are going to pick the 996. Sure last of the air cooled, but it's more than that.

The same with the M3. It's not like people are priced out of the E9X (everyday there's some 19 yo buying one on this forum ). It's priced pretty low at this time for a used model. Some people just prefer the E46. Don't see why it's so difficult to understand that.
Exactly, good analogy.

In fact, for me... 964 > 993 > 997 > 991 > 996

Then again... from my perspective, a 981 Cayman S with a steering retrofit from a 987 Cayman may be the best car Porsche (or any car company?) has ever released. That car is damn near perfect. Just needs a bit more "I'm trying to kill you" factor....

My perfect care might be a 981 with 987 steering and 997 GT3 engine
... but need 4 seats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamboni View Post
Well said not to mention the EDC feature plus many other setting on E9X M3 that E46 is missing, not so sure about 6MT but SMG is horrible on E46 slow & sluggish.
SMG is love it or hate it. It certainly is NOT an automatic. You have to work to make it smooth and fast-- it has to be driven like a manual from your right foot's perspective. That said, I prefer it to DCT for exactly that reason.

Then again, a 6mt has to be driven even more like a manual, so that's what I got, and is the only thing I want (in either car).

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
Just because a lot of 19 year olds buy one, does not mean its in everyones price range, especially new. Even used ones can perhaps be bought but people then are often unable to afford cost of ownership, repairs that cost a lot etc. So an e90 m3 is not in everybodies budget I am afraid, new or used
It may not be in everyone's price range, but that doesn't mean it's the only reason people don't get it. As I said in the other post... In the last year, I've spent the price of a used 2008 e92 M3 on SuperSprint products on the two cars... and I've done other mods than that as well. Dropping it off today to have a lighter trunk (8 lbs!) painted--coupe grand to save a couple pounds (already have a heavier CF CSL trunk). In two weeks, doing a light weight stereo project on the car (as in, the focus of the stereo project is making the car lighter), also not cheap. As soon as I can locate one, I'll be ordering a CSL roof (It's currently NLA, but rumors are floating that BMW will be resuming projection... briefly)-- $3k for the part, another thousand or so for install.
(getting the car lighter is very much my focus at the moment, if it's not apparent-- my goal is to get it under 3100 lbs without compromising practicality (4 seats) or comfort)

It's hard to post it without sounding like an ass, but I think i could buy one if I wanted to . A used e9X M3 is a pretty cheap car now, and when the F30 comes out... it'll become significantly cheaper.

In a year or two, e46 and e9X M3 prices should be pretty close together-- couple thousand off. Then people will actually only be choosing by which car they like better!

That said, I absolutely agree that some people do by the e46 over the e9X because it's what they can afford.
__________________

Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2001 LMB/blk M5, Wife's e91, 1995 S50 B32 GT3 RS Green M3 Race Car
Former Cars: 2004 TiAg/IR M3, 1996 TV/black M3, 1995 AW M3 shell
M3 Mod List, M5 Mod List

Last edited by Obioban; 03-02-2013 at 07:06 AM.
Obioban is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-02-2013, 08:37 AM   #73
johnsim
New Member
 
Drives: 2010 M3 Sedan
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 26
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2010 e90 M3  [0.00]
I very recently switched from an e46 M3 6spd to an e90 M3 DCT. I'm less than two weeks in, but so far my adjustment has been like this:

- Test drove a 6spd (I was impartial on transmission. Preferred 6spd, but intrigued by the technology): "holy crap this transmission sucks. Clutch too light. Too easy to drive. I miss the glorious battle of shifting my e46." - I believe this would have improved over time. This didn't deter me from the manual. I just happened to find a DCT that I liked first.

- First few times in my new (to me) DCT: "hmmm, this is fast and easy to drive, but not as involved as my e46. I feel the size. Where is the noise? Why doesn't it sound like I'm doing naughty things with this engine. It's loud, but smooth. Did I make a mistake here? No, intelligent people say this is the best thing on 4 tires. I must be missing something."

- as the days have gone on: "wow, this thing feels solid. Why did I put up with that cranky, notchy transmission? How could the steering feel this good? It's so precise that it makes up for the weight. My first gear is usable above 4mph!!! Did I really just accelerate that fast? Oh yeah, this is what interior technology is like."

Long story short after having some doubts it's growing on me extremely fast. I fully expect to lose all longing for my old e46 very soon. My only knock, that I believe will be lasting, is that the extra power means less occasion to be able to really rev out the engine on the street. I might even get over that once I get to the track a few times.
johnsim is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-02-2013, 10:45 PM   #74
Mmmm3333
New Member
 
Drives: E90 m3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: MD

Posts: 11
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
You're localish. I can show you next time I'm passing through NYC area if you'd like
Can you show me as well when you head south? I drove a e46 for 10 years and the best mileage ever driving a constant 75mph was 27.0 (computer indicated) and 25.5 (actual calculated).
Mmmm3333 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-02-2013, 10:47 PM   #75
Obioban
Captain
 
Drives: 05 M3, 95 M3 euro, 01 M5, e91
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Chester, PA

Posts: 825
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmm3333 View Post
Can you show me as well when you head south? I drove a e46 for 10 years and the best mileage ever driving a constant 75mph was 27.0 (computer indicated) and 25.5 (actual calculated).
I don't go that way nearly as often, but I could make a video for everyone next time I'm on the highway.
__________________

Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2001 LMB/blk M5, Wife's e91, 1995 S50 B32 GT3 RS Green M3 Race Car
Former Cars: 2004 TiAg/IR M3, 1996 TV/black M3, 1995 AW M3 shell
M3 Mod List, M5 Mod List
Obioban is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-03-2013, 10:39 AM   #76
gatorfast
Colonel
 
gatorfast's Avatar
 
Drives: MR E90 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SoFla

Posts: 2,539
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsim View Post
My only knock, that I believe will be lasting, is that the extra power means less occasion to be able to really rev out the engine on the street. I might even get over that once I get to the track a few times.
I feel the same way. I love the power but hardly get to use it. When you hit 70 in 2nd gear there aren't many places to really wring it out.
gatorfast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-03-2013, 02:45 PM   #77
Obioban
Captain
 
Drives: 05 M3, 95 M3 euro, 01 M5, e91
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Chester, PA

Posts: 825
iTrader: (0)

Amusingly the 46 also hits exactly 70 in 2nd.

Could be worse-- the z06 is still in first. For that matter, the Z06 can start in 5th (TORQUE) and take it all the way to 185. In one gear. Absurd.
__________________

Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2001 LMB/blk M5, Wife's e91, 1995 S50 B32 GT3 RS Green M3 Race Car
Former Cars: 2004 TiAg/IR M3, 1996 TV/black M3, 1995 AW M3 shell
M3 Mod List, M5 Mod List
Obioban is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-03-2013, 03:50 PM   #78
duk
///M
 
Drives: 2011 AW/FR 6MT E92
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Jose, CA

Posts: 2,939
iTrader: (0)

hmmm tough decision here, but S65 wins
__________________
2011 AW/FR 6MT E92 | Powered by Premier | Alekshop | ESS |
Rok n Peace Clothing: www.roknpeace.com

duk is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-03-2013, 04:19 PM   #79
Obioban
Captain
 
Drives: 05 M3, 95 M3 euro, 01 M5, e91
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Chester, PA

Posts: 825
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by duk View Post
hmmm tough decision here, but S65 wins
I actually agree that, overall, the S65 wins (though unlike most people, what I really want is the S65 weight!). The problem is, the S65 is the only part of the e9X that I prefer to the e46.

In my particular case, however:



My S54 vs a S65. The rev limiter was capping the S65 early. That means the peak numbers were lower, but the numbers under the curve to that point aren't effected. S65 is bone stock, mine has exhaust, tune, and an intake elbow.

My S54 in red, S65 in blue.

Soon I'll do more than bolt ons!
__________________

Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2001 LMB/blk M5, Wife's e91, 1995 S50 B32 GT3 RS Green M3 Race Car
Former Cars: 2004 TiAg/IR M3, 1996 TV/black M3, 1995 AW M3 shell
M3 Mod List, M5 Mod List

Last edited by Obioban; 03-03-2013 at 04:32 PM.
Obioban is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-03-2013, 04:40 PM   #80
pbonsalb
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

Posts: 1,555
iTrader: (3)

You are comparing a modded S54 to a stock S65 (and one that performs on the lower end of the range of S65). Mod the S65, and it regains its power advantage over the modded S54 (they hit just under 400 rwhp with tune, intake, pulley and exhaust).
pbonsalb is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-03-2013, 04:45 PM   #81
Obioban
Captain
 
Drives: 05 M3, 95 M3 euro, 01 M5, e91
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Chester, PA

Posts: 825
iTrader: (0)

Yes, I said clearly in the post it was modded vs stock.

My car is also 550 lbs lighter than an e9X M3 instead of the standard 300.
__________________

Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2001 LMB/blk M5, Wife's e91, 1995 S50 B32 GT3 RS Green M3 Race Car
Former Cars: 2004 TiAg/IR M3, 1996 TV/black M3, 1995 AW M3 shell
M3 Mod List, M5 Mod List
Obioban is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-03-2013, 05:19 PM   #82
pbonsalb
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

Posts: 1,555
iTrader: (3)

You can lighten an E90M3 also. I think it would feel better with 10% less weight, but that takes some money or some sacrifice in comfort. If I keep my car long term, I may drop a little weight, but more like 5% (exhaust, battery, brakes, seats, wheels).

While I understand the purist perspective, I like comfort with my speed and handling. I have little interest in driving our 2002 or Bavaria, for example, and reach for the keys of the E90M3 more than the keys to the 500+ rwhp/500+ lbs rwtq E36M3 (though the E36M3 is comfortable enough that I still drive it year round). I also like ABS brakes. And I don't object to sophisticated traction control (though the standard E90M3 version is a little intrusive so I may go to the Euro MDM version).

I thought about an E46M3 before buying the E90M3, but I would have had to mod it to make it perform like I wanted. They are decent cars. If I just wanted an upgrade from a stock E36M3, the E46M3 or a 135i would have been my choice. The E90M3 is another step up the ladder from the E46M3 in terms of performance.
pbonsalb is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-03-2013, 06:50 PM   #83
Obioban
Captain
 
Drives: 05 M3, 95 M3 euro, 01 M5, e91
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Chester, PA

Posts: 825
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
You can lighten an E90M3 also. I think it would feel better with 10% less weight, but that takes some money or some sacrifice in comfort. If I keep my car long term, I may drop a little weight, but more like 5% (exhaust, battery, brakes, seats, wheels).

While I understand the purist perspective, I like comfort with my speed and handling. I have little interest in driving our 2002 or Bavaria, for example, and reach for the keys of the E90M3 more than the keys to the 500+ rwhp/500+ lbs rwtq E36M3 (though the E36M3 is comfortable enough that I still drive it year round). I also like ABS brakes. And I don't object to sophisticated traction control (though the standard E90M3 version is a little intrusive so I may go to the Euro MDM version).

I thought about an E46M3 before buying the E90M3, but I would have had to mod it to make it perform like I wanted. They are decent cars. If I just wanted an upgrade from a stock E36M3, the E46M3 or a 135i would have been my choice. The E90M3 is another step up the ladder from the E46M3 in terms of performance.
You can lighten an e9X, but you have an significantly heavier starting weight and BMW already did a lot of weight saving-- e.g. CF roof, plastic fenders, etc. BMW really went to town on it, as the underlying e9X chassis is heavy! As in, if you compare same spec e60s and e90s (eg 535xi auto vs 335xi auto, or 328i manual vs 528i manual), the curb weight of the e60 is only 70 lbs more than the e90! With that in mind, it's actually pretty impressive that they got the M3 down to 300 lbs lighter than the e60 M5.

My 46 is the civility retaining (expensive route) lightweight-- hence the sub 3100 lb curb weight target.

My 36 is the all out lightness car, civility be damned, hence the current 2315 lb weight.
__________________

Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2001 LMB/blk M5, Wife's e91, 1995 S50 B32 GT3 RS Green M3 Race Car
Former Cars: 2004 TiAg/IR M3, 1996 TV/black M3, 1995 AW M3 shell
M3 Mod List, M5 Mod List
Obioban is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:39 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST