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      10-27-2012, 12:50 AM   #1
BimmFiniti
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Disappointing track experience is eating at me

I recently had a disappointing track experience in my M3 and it's really bothering me. I'm starting to wonder why I have this car and have lost some of the initial passion I had about the car.

Have any of you had similar experiences and recovered? Any words of wisdom or advice? Am I just not a good enough driver to drive the M3? Should I switch to a car I can get more out of in normal driving?

Still think the M3 is cool, but I'm not feeling like a member of the "club" right now...

Background
  • I have only owned my M3 for 8 months now. My previous high performance cars were a 2007 Cayman S and a 2002 911. I also own a 2001 330i
  • I have tracked all those cars over the years - all at Pacific Raceways in Kent, WA - and have progressed up to a pretty solid, fast driver. At my last session at Pacific Raceways, for example, I drove my Cayman S and was fast, smooth and solid in my "C" group, only being passed by a few instructors
  • I recently went to a BMW High Performance Driving event at the Ridge Motorsport Park in Shelton, WA in my M3, again sitting in the "C" group since I typically only get out to the track once per year.
  • My session at the Ridge was just incredibly disappointing. That track is definitely tricky, and way different from Pacific Raceways, but I just thought I'd do better, and feel better about it, with my "monster" M3 on the track. I was constantly getting passed; I never seemed to use any of the higher RPM range of the M3, seemingly always being in a high gear (at my instructor's request). I never felt like I was pushing the car; I always felt that before in my other vehicles. I ... um ... sucked.
  • Since my session, I have definitely noticed that I'm not as "in to" my M3 as I was before. Commuting and normal street driving doesn't give you the opportunity to get the most out of the car, but neither did my track experience. What the heck? What am I doing with this car?
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      10-27-2012, 12:58 AM   #2
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Try another club and or track. The car is amazing when pushed HARD. MDM at least if not DSC off, 5k RPM and up. That is where the magic happens. Balanced chassis, LSD, linear torque curve. Otherwise yes a base Carrera or Cayman would be better. The M3 has great limit behavior.
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      10-27-2012, 01:02 AM   #3
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it's like buying Air Jordans then realizing you get out of breath running the length of the court...

But seriously, sounds like you're not familar with the track? Are you braking too much and losing momentum around the high speed sweepers?

That track looks really fun, long sweepers and a long straight. Although, I would prefer tight, slow, corners.
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      10-27-2012, 01:04 AM   #4
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It's true though. This car begs to explore slip angles. Street driving at the speed limit is so boring and pointless in this car because it is so smooth and it has such high limits.
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      10-27-2012, 01:34 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean88 View Post
Try another club and or track. The car is amazing when pushed HARD. MDM at least if not DSC off, 5k RPM and up. That is where the magic happens. Balanced chassis, LSD, linear torque curve. Otherwise yes a base Carrera or Cayman would be better. The M3 has great limit behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
it's like buying Air Jordans then realizing you get out of breath running the length of the court...

But seriously, sounds like you're not familar with the track? Are you braking too much and losing momentum around the high speed sweepers?

That track looks really fun, long sweepers and a long straight. Although, I would prefer tight, slow, corners.
I hope I'm not running out of breath I love my new Air Jordans and, if I can't slam it, at least want to touch the rim!

I think I really need to get the M3 out to Pacific Raceways for an apples-to-apples comparison, but that's not gonna happen until April. I don't know the Ridge at all and I'm sure that played a part in it. There are a number of blind corners and slower sections and I didn't seem to have any rhythm or momentum. I was seldom in the 5K+ rev range; it felt like I could have done better in my 330i, to be honest.

The track itself is very cool. It's almost brand new and in excellent shape. It is very different, though, and has some unique features I didn't do well on. I went for a ride with an instructor in his track-prepped E30 and it was a total eye-opener. Perhaps I'm just too inexperienced and need more exposure?
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      10-27-2012, 02:48 AM   #6
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DCT or 6MT? First time at this track? Maybe the instructor wasn't helping if he had you in too high of a gear all the time. How many groups does the club run? What's the "fast" group?

I've never tracked any other car so I can't compare but my track experience in my M has been spectacular. Yours can be too. Just give it another go.
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      10-27-2012, 03:12 AM   #7
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Yes I know what you mean. My previous car was a 370z which I also tracked. Going from that to the M3, the experience was definitely disappointing. The M3 is more comfortable and luxurious and easier as a daily driver, but on the track the performance delta was just marginal. The M is faster than the Z, but only by a small amount. The extra weight, more numb steering, crappy brakes, and softer ride put a damper on the driving experience. It didn't feel like I upgraded to some supercar out of the world experience.

I think the M3 should be appreciated more as a GT car that can do everything decently, like being a daily driver, family car, and also being capable of a spirited drive down the canyon roads or local track. If you approach it from that angle, you won't be disappointed.

The problem is that BMW propaganda, and the "unbiased" auto journalists secretly on BMW's payroll, overhype the M3 as some sort of track monster or racecar with a license plate, or the rest of that nonsense. If you buy an M3 thinking you will blow the doors off everyone else while setting a new fastest lap record at the track, that is when you end up disappointed.

Remember, the M3 is a GT car, NOT a sports car, and sure as hell not a street legal race car (regardless of BMW's promotional flyers)
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      10-27-2012, 03:35 AM   #8
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I have similar reservations about the M3 on track. I had an Evo before and it was very fast and fun on track. The M3 is definitely a lot softer and more comfort oriented as a car. It has a detached feel to it and the extra weight doesn't help things. I could not get the same lap time of the Evo in the M3 while stock.

That said, most of what you are feeling can be changed. Coilover suspension, stiffer bushings, tires and a bucket seat will very much change the feel of the car. But in stock form, the M3 is definitely not a race car for the street as BMW and the journalists advertise.
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      10-27-2012, 04:30 AM   #9
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The M3 begs to be pushed. Despite what some are saying here, I have not come across a Porshe 911 Carrera (S or not) a Cayman (R, S, or else) or a 350/370Z that has given me a serious challenge at the track. And my car is stock (except for camber plates).

Maybe you fell on an instructor that is not comfortable in high powered cars and he was holding you back too much. The M3 should be kept above 5000RPMs to pull properly. That is when you get in the sweet spot of the power band. It is true that it is a comfortable car, but the chassis is very well balanced. Every time I give rides to students, they are amazed on how the car can be controlled. As for the brakes, my buddy instructors that drive Corvettes and Lotus 7s are amazed on how the M3 brakes.

So don't give up just yet. Go back to the track and hope you'll get an instructor that will help get the most out your M3.

Last edited by CanAutM3; 10-27-2012 at 04:35 AM.
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      10-27-2012, 05:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The M3 begs to be pushed. Despite what some are saying here, I have not come across a Porshe 911 Carrera (S or not) a Cayman (R, S, or else) or a 350/370Z that has given me a serious challenge at the track. And my car is stock (except for camber plates).

Maybe you fell on an instructor that is not comfortable in high powered cars and he was holding you back too much. The M3 should be kept above 5000RPMs to pull properly. That is when you get in the sweet spot of the power band. It is true that it is a comfortable car, but the chassis is very well balanced. Every time I give rides to students, they are amazed on how the car can be controlled. As for the brakes, my buddy instructors that drive Corvettes and Lotus 7s are amazed on how the M3 brakes.

So don't give up just yet. Go back to the track and hope you'll get an instructor that will help get the most out your M3.
Ditto, I've tracked mine in a good few times since I took delivery over a year ago and have driven with all sorts of exotic machinery, including a couple of UK EVO Magazine track days and I can nearly keep pace with some exotic machinery, and comfortably outrun your regular AMGs, Audi RSs, Nissan Zs, most Lotuses, base Caterhams and Atoms, and base Porsches. Obviously, I'm comparing against stock cars. There's a good reason why the M3 posts fantastic laps times (for a road car) by reputable reviewers and magazines.
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      10-27-2012, 06:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmFiniti View Post
I have tracked all those cars over the years - all at Pacific Raceways in Kent, WA - and have progressed up to a pretty solid, fast driver. At my last session at Pacific Raceways, for example, I drove my Cayman S and was fast, smooth and solid in my "C" group, only being passed by a few instructors
........in Shelton, WA in my M3, again sitting in the "C" group since I typically only get out to the track once per year.[/list]
So what kind of lap-times are typical for you at Pacific? and you really cannot be seriously blaming the car if you get out to the track only once a year.

What you need is lots and lots of track time and seat time. It is not about the car. Have you seen how fast some of the "A" guys and the instructors can go in spec miatas and S2000s... they are fast! really fast! And I know people who can post blazing laptimes on a 330i ... let alone a M3.. and I know some really fast M3 guys too! ..

A huge part of having fun at the track is again not about the car but about the right lines, the right technique.. the right gears in the corners, where to brake and with the M3 keeping that V8 spinning above 4-5000rpms most of the time ... this will only come with lots and lots of seat time... no other way ..

my goal next year is to get out to the track maybe once a month and even that is not enough. A few years ago, I was into motorcycle trackdays. With bikes, it is even more about rider skill vs. the bike. I went through a 600, a 848 vtwin and even a 1000cc GSXR... I consistently posted my fastest laptimes on the 600! .. and had the most fun too.

Maybe you should get a GTR and let the car do all the driving

Last edited by w00tw00t; 10-27-2012 at 06:29 AM.
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      10-27-2012, 07:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w00tw00t View Post
So what kind of lap-times are typical for you at Pacific? and you really cannot be seriously blaming the car if you get out to the track only once a year.

What you need is lots and lots of track time and seat time. It is not about the car. Have you seen how fast some of the "A" guys and the instructors can go in spec miatas and S2000s... they are fast! really fast! And I know people who can post blazing laptimes on a 330i ... let alone a M3.. and I know some really fast M3 guys too! ..

A huge part of having fun at the track is again not about the car but about the right lines, the right technique.. the right gears in the corners, where to brake and with the M3 keeping that V8 spinning above 4-5000rpms most of the time ... this will only come with lots and lots of seat time... no other way ..

my goal next year is to get out to the track maybe once a month and even that is not enough. A few years ago, I was into motorcycle trackdays. With bikes, it is even more about rider skill vs. the bike. I went through a 600, a 848 vtwin and even a 1000cc GSXR... I consistently posted my fastest laptimes on the 600! .. and had the most fun too.

Maybe you should get a GTR and let the car do all the driving
Well said
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      10-27-2012, 08:38 AM   #13
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Agree that the M3 will be much, much different once you run it at higher rpms' ( you will have twice the horsepower up there).
Maybe the instructor was worried about your throttle control and moved you to higher gears to smooth you out. Another thought is that he didn't want you to think about shifting and just intended you to stay in one gear the whole time.

Either way, the M3 needs the higher rpms to come alive. Don't give up on the car, it is quite nice on the track. It is heavier and less nimble than a Cayman, but it does have more power so things tend to balance out. Wait until you get used to it. Its fun.
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      10-27-2012, 09:02 AM   #14
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OP don't give up just yet. Seat time in your M3 and you will learn how to extract what everyone is saying exists.

I have had numerous Instructors and it's amazing how the good ones make you better and the bad ones hold you back. Fortunately 90% of my Instructors have been good.

Try again and maybe again. I believe you will get back to where you want to be.
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      10-27-2012, 09:03 AM   #15
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BMW run track days suck. It's a mortal sin if you put a tire in the grass. All you need is more time at that track & an instructor that will help you get better & not worry about if one of his/her students gets a tire off track and makes them look bad.
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      10-27-2012, 09:04 AM   #16
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Yeah, you need the driver mod before coming to the conclusion that the M3 is not track worthy. I ran 2:13 at VIR full, one of the best track in North America with a mostly stock M3 w/ street rubber. Oh, and it was my 3rd time at the track. Granted I am a better driver than most but I ran 2:15 the first weekend there which is pretty ridiculous when most of the seasoned drivers can only muster laps in the 2:20s. I was the fastest guy in my group period the last time out. It is all because of the M3, makes this zero into a hero every time.

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      10-27-2012, 09:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmFiniti View Post
I recently had a disappointing track experience in my M3 and it's really bothering me. I'm starting to wonder why I have this car and have lost some of the initial passion I had about the car.

Have any of you had similar experiences and recovered? Any words of wisdom or advice? Am I just not a good enough driver to drive the M3? Should I switch to a car I can get more out of in normal driving?

Still think the M3 is cool, but I'm not feeling like a member of the "club" right now...

Background
  • I have only owned my M3 for 8 months now. My previous high performance cars were a 2007 Cayman S and a 2002 911. I also own a 2001 330i
  • I have tracked all those cars over the years - all at Pacific Raceways in Kent, WA - and have progressed up to a pretty solid, fast driver. At my last session at Pacific Raceways, for example, I drove my Cayman S and was fast, smooth and solid in my "C" group, only being passed by a few instructors
  • I recently went to a BMW High Performance Driving event at the Ridge Motorsport Park in Shelton, WA in my M3, again sitting in the "C" group since I typically only get out to the track once per year.
  • My session at the Ridge was just incredibly disappointing. That track is definitely tricky, and way different from Pacific Raceways, but I just thought I'd do better, and feel better about it, with my "monster" M3 on the track. I was constantly getting passed; I never seemed to use any of the higher RPM range of the M3, seemingly always being in a high gear (at my instructor's request). I never felt like I was pushing the car; I always felt that before in my other vehicles. I ... um ... sucked.
  • Since my session, I have definitely noticed that I'm not as "in to" my M3 as I was before. Commuting and normal street driving doesn't give you the opportunity to get the most out of the car, but neither did my track experience. What the heck? What am I doing with this car?
Here's the deal: You're experiencing your lack of experience via the "one track blues".

This is your first time at another track, and this track is giving you a different set of challenges. You think you're moderately experienced, but you're really not.

Not yet.

The good news is that having one experience at another track will absolutely make you a better driver at your home track. Trust me on this. It's absolutely true.

You need to try this new track on at least a few more occasions, until you're comfortable with the layout. Go fast slowly, but trust me, you'll get fast over time.

If you can, get to a third track as well. Each of these experiences will improve your skills and make you a better overall driver.

First move: Get back to your home track, and you'll see you're better than you've ever been. Then take heart, trust me on this advice, and move on.

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      10-27-2012, 10:34 AM   #18
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If you're below 5k rpm...you will be slow. Gotta keep those RPMs up there. Was your instructor familiar with BMWs? Specifically M cars?

Maybe the instructor was scared. There's a lot of power when you're high in the RPM band. Doesn't take much unsmoothness (word???) to get the rear end drifting out. IMO, gear selection and throttle smoothness is far more critical in my E90 M3 than my E46. If you get it right you will be very richly rewarded.
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      10-27-2012, 10:38 AM   #19
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Dear OP,

If you are still in control while tracking, you are not going fast enough.
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      10-27-2012, 10:47 AM   #20
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I think there are couple issues here.

First of all, M3 is a very fast car, and it will take time to get there. I can guarantee you that everyone that goes to Pacific Raceways for the first time runs around 2 minutes regardless of the car. Then the times start to come down as people get used to the track, their car, and high performance driving.

I was running around 1:50s in my Cooper S (last year), and now I'm around 1:44s. There is 2-3 more seconds to be shaved, but it is better not to rush and take it slowly.

As others pointed out, 1 track day per year is not enough. After few months of off season, I always struggle a bit in my first day of the new season.

I personally think (and I know some instructors agree with this) that M3 is not the right car to learn how to drive. It is better to learn with a less HP car. But anyways, it is not the end of the world.

If you want, I can help you. It is too late for this season, but next season I can try. I'm an instructor with PCA for their driver skills program. I'm not an HPDE instructor yet, but I have helped others before. The only way I can help is with Turn 2 since Tom allows passenger rides.
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      10-27-2012, 10:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Yeah, you need the driver mod before coming to the conclusion that the M3 is not track worthy. I ran 2:13 at VIR full, one of the best track in North America with a mostly stock M3 w/ street rubber. Oh, and it was my 3rd time at the track. Granted I am a better driver than most but I ran 2:15 the first weekend there which is pretty ridiculous when most of the seasoned drivers can only muster laps in the 2:20s. I was the fastest guy in my group period the last time out. It is all because of the M3, makes this zero into a hero every time.

very cool video
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      10-27-2012, 11:17 AM   #22
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I had the same experience, I came from a 350z and when I got the M I went to the same track i took my Z to and honestly it made me hate the car. I wasn't familiar with the track and the corners were really tight, made me hate the m3 as every car was passing me. Last week I took the car to Big Willow (high speed track) and the car blew me away, i fell in love . I guess it depends on how well you know the track, the more difficult ones with a bunch of corners are a lot harder if your not familiar with the track especially with a heavy powerful car like this.
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