Velos Designwerks | ESSVT625 Supercharger System Dyno Results w/ Conditions

Omar@VelosDesignwerks · 09-10-2012, 03:08 PM

Fellow Enthusiasts,

A few months back we installed two ESS VT625 Supercharger Systems on two 2011 E92 M3's with DCT transmission... Typical Miami weather as it was 90+ degrees and extremely humid. With that said we have been getting a good amount of inquiries and questioins regarding how these cars will perform in hotter climates, whether meth is required, air to air vs air to water, etc..

There are a few choices out there for SC systems, we welcome all questions or concerns. A lot of information on the forum and unfortunately there is too much "bandwagoning" or "sales talk" and not enough facts.

Car #1 & 2 - ESS VT625 Supercharger Systems. NO meth. Akra full exhaust.

For those of you wondering, adding meth to any of these cars should add another 30-40 rwhp easily.

p.s. this is more of an education thread that anything so all FI companies can feel free to chime in.... it's actually welcome.

Dyno Chart & Conditions -

One with an educated guess would assume meth would add another 30-40 rwhp. Meth works, no secret to it. Is it a good option for daily driving, in my opinion only if the system is not dependent on it.. What happens when it runs out? What happens if the system fails? Doesn't happen often but something to think about. On these two particular cars we suggested to stay away from the meth option for the initial installed and both clients were impressed with the numbers on the dyno and even more with the real world driving experience.

Myth.... power under the curve is great but a little research will show you that most kits on the market will make similar torque because of the behavior of the motor. The biggest difference will be the peak horsepower... if the blower on the car is out of air you can either lower the redline so the drop off in power isn't as big or it will just fall of.. When the blower is done you can ask for all the boost in the world but if the blower isnt capable of it then it simply will not make the power... Others ways to make up for an inadequate blower is via ignition timing which is obviously not recommended and can lead to engine failures....

Car # 1

Car # 2

DLSJ5 · 09-10-2012, 03:23 PM

Good stuff Omar.

Team Plutonium · 09-10-2012, 03:26 PM

NICE!

ssabripo · 09-10-2012, 03:37 PM

Omar, if only you had a similar informative thread with a VT1-535 system.... it would make things very clear for me!

C|3R1C · 09-10-2012, 03:38 PM

Jeez Omar you have no idea how much you make me want a SC lol

Omar@VelosDesignwerks · 09-10-2012, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssabripo

Omar, if only you had a similar informative thread with a VT1-535 system.... it would make things very clear for me!

Going to reply to your PM in a second

Omar@VelosDesignwerks · 09-10-2012, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C|3R1C

Jeez Omar you have no idea how much you make me want a SC lol

ahh yes blame me, its my fault right

C|3R1C · 09-10-2012, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omar@VelosDesignwerks

ahh yes blame me, its my fault right

Of course it is! Putting up all these pretty pictures and dynos.

sg///M3 · 09-10-2012, 03:53 PM

Just curious, but what gear did you dyno in?

Omar@VelosDesignwerks · 09-10-2012, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sg///M3

Just curious, but what gear did you dyno in?

Fourth

DemonEye · 09-10-2012, 04:58 PM

I'm curious to see what numbers I get once my 625 is installed. I did 373whp / 283wtrq on Dynojet. Catless, AA filter, and AA tune. Stock muffler.

img · 09-10-2012, 05:17 PM

Very nice Omar and great work. Nice meeting you @ Bimmerstock !

leigh · 09-10-2012, 06:52 PM

If you were to put meth on a ess vt650 what kind of setup would you use?

Team Plutonium · 09-10-2012, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leigh

If you were to put meth on a ess vt650 what kind of setup would you use?

Oh... I like where this is going.

leigh · 09-10-2012, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Oh... I like where this is going.

Hehehehe

Andrew@ActiveAutowerke · 09-10-2012, 07:43 PM

I guess I missed it but what is the myth and what chargers are you speaking of?

Omar@VelosDesignwerks · 09-10-2012, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leigh

If you were to put meth on a ess vt650 what kind of setup would you use?

Hello Leigh,

Hope all is well, ideally we would use a cooling mist progressive setup with a 50/50 mix.

Omar@VelosDesignwerks · 09-10-2012, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

I guess I missed it but what is the myth and what chargers are you speaking of?

Hey,

Regarding myths it was more of a generalization than anything. As far as the chargers are concerned I was referring to Superchargers. Did you have a more direct question? I want to make sure you get all the answers you are looking for.

Best Regards,

Daft · 09-10-2012, 08:42 PM

Solid numbers!

Andrew@ActiveAutowerke · 09-10-2012, 08:46 PM

In regards to this part "Myth.... power under the curve is great but a little research will show you that most kits on the market will make similar torque because of the behavior of the motor"

This is a very broad statement with no actual facts behind it. Looking at most of the dyno's posted on here the difference at around 5200rpm can be as much as 30-40 Wtq.

Omar@VelosDesignwerks · 09-10-2012, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

In regards to this part

Quote:

"Myth.... power under the curve is great but a little research will show you that most kits on the market will make similar torque because of the behavior of the motor"

This is a very broad statement with no actual facts behind it. Looking at most of the dyno's posted on here the difference at around 5200rpm can be as much as 30-40 Wtq.

Hey,

Helped you out with the quote. It was meant to be a broad statement.. When you compare kits rated at the same HP level you will notice the torque gains/peaks are pretty similar. This is because at this rpm the Supercharger units are still well within their efficiency range. The efficiency range is not tested until the higher rpm range (where the S65 shines) because amount of air required... Do you agree with this?

Andrew@ActiveAutowerke · 09-10-2012, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omar@VelosDesignwerks

Hey,

Helped you out with the quote. It was meant to be a broad statement.. When you compare kits rated at the same HP level you will notice the torque gains/peaks are pretty similar. This is because at this rpm the Supercharger units are still well within their efficiency range. The efficiency range is not tested until the higher rpm range (where the S65 shines) because amount of air required... Do you agree with this?

While it does make sense its not 100% accurate. It would depend on many variables such as the type of supercharger used, pulley size ect. One supercharger can be more efficient then the other from 2000 to 7000 and still out perform the blower with the higher rpm efficiency. Maybe not on a dyno but in a real world situation where it matters.

Check out this dyno thread to check your theory. You will notice the differences in cars with the same or more rated Hp.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...7#post12659457

09-10-2012, 03:08 PM	#1
Omar@VelosDesignwerks BimmerPost Supporting Vendor Drives: M3 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Miami Posts: 672 iTrader: (1)	Velos Designwerks \| ESSVT625 Supercharger System Dyno Results w/ Conditions Fellow Enthusiasts, A few months back we installed two ESS VT625 Supercharger Systems on two 2011 E92 M3's with DCT transmission... Typical Miami weather as it was 90+ degrees and extremely humid. With that said we have been getting a good amount of inquiries and questioins regarding how these cars will perform in hotter climates, whether meth is required, air to air vs air to water, etc.. There are a few choices out there for SC systems, we welcome all questions or concerns. A lot of information on the forum and unfortunately there is too much "bandwagoning" or "sales talk" and not enough facts. Car #1 & 2 - ESS VT625 Supercharger Systems. NO meth. Akra full exhaust. For those of you wondering, adding meth to any of these cars should add another 30-40 rwhp easily. p.s. this is more of an education thread that anything so all FI companies can feel free to chime in.... it's actually welcome. Dyno Chart & Conditions - One with an educated guess would assume meth would add another 30-40 rwhp. Meth works, no secret to it. Is it a good option for daily driving, in my opinion only if the system is not dependent on it.. What happens when it runs out? What happens if the system fails? Doesn't happen often but something to think about. On these two particular cars we suggested to stay away from the meth option for the initial installed and both clients were impressed with the numbers on the dyno and even more with the real world driving experience. Myth.... power under the curve is great but a little research will show you that most kits on the market will make similar torque because of the behavior of the motor. The biggest difference will be the peak horsepower... if the blower on the car is out of air you can either lower the redline so the drop off in power isn't as big or it will just fall of.. When the blower is done you can ask for all the boost in the world but if the blower isnt capable of it then it simply will not make the power... Others ways to make up for an inadequate blower is via ignition timing which is obviously not recommended and can lead to engine failures.... Car # 1 Car # 2 __________________ Omar Murray omar@velosdesignwerks.com www.velosdesignwerks.com Velos Wheels \| Velos Tuning KW \| Stoptech \| ESS Supercharger Kits Last edited by Omar@VelosDesignwerks; 09-10-2012 at 03:26 PM.
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09-10-2012, 03:23 PM	#2
DLSJ5 Colonel Drives: 08 E92 DCT M3 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: CA Posts: 2,784 iTrader: (0)	Good stuff Omar. __________________ 08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth ESS VT3-725 60-130MPH 6.64s - 620Whp/420Wtq@ 11psi ESS VT3-750 - 685Whp/466Wtq@13.5 psi SAE - 703WHP /478WTQ@13.5 psi STD

09-10-2012, 03:26 PM	#3
Team Plutonium Major General Drives: 911 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate Posts: 8,503 iTrader: (1)	NICE! __________________ Gone... ESS VT2-625 \| ESS Tune \| M24 Oil Cooler \| Brembo 380mm BBK \| Dinan 4.10 Diff \| KW Variant 3 Coilovers \| Dinan Camber Plates \| Dinan Strut Tower Braces \| Dinan X-Pipe \| Akrapovic Exhaust \| Vorsteiner GTS3 Bumper \| Varis System One Diffuser \| OEM Performance Spoiler \| Stack Gauges \| GTS Door Sills \| Volk TE37 \| Falken Azenis RT615K 275/315 \| Pulled Fenders \| Turner Stud Kit \| OMP ARS Racing Seats New: 991C2S

09-10-2012, 03:37 PM	#4
ssabripo HALA MADRID! Drives: camels & donkeys Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Plantation, Fl Posts: 1,970 iTrader: (5)	Omar, if only you had a similar informative thread with a VT1-535 system.... it would make things very clear for me! __________________ __________________________________________________ ____________ e90 M3, Interlagos Blue / M individual two-tone, ZCP, ZP2, ZCV, DCT, ED.

09-10-2012, 03:38 PM	#5
C\|3R1C So Kewl Guy Drives: 2010 E93 M3 DCT Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 407 iTrader: (0)	Jeez Omar you have no idea how much you make me want a SC lol __________________ 2010 E93 M3 / AA Catless X-Pipe / AA Catback / Vorsteiner Vented Hood and Bootlid E93 Trunk / ADV1 7.1 Wheels GB / LS3 LED Lights / AFE Stage 2 / Velos Designwerks Tune In progress: AA Pulley

09-10-2012, 03:53 PM	#9
sg///M3 Lieutenant Drives: 2008 M3 DCT Join Date: May 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 407 iTrader: (0)	Just curious, but what gear did you dyno in?

09-10-2012, 04:58 PM	#11
DemonEye Private Drives: 2012 M3 Coupe, 2005 M3 Coupe Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 80 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2012 M3 Coupe [0.00] 2005 M3 Coupe [3.00]	I'm curious to see what numbers I get once my 625 is installed. I did 373whp / 283wtrq on Dynojet. Catless, AA filter, and AA tune. Stock muffler. __________________ www.carolinaeuros.com

09-10-2012, 05:17 PM	#12
img VT3 Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Couch Posts: 5,866 iTrader: (5)	Very nice Omar and great work. Nice meeting you @ Bimmerstock ! __________________ NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Challenge modefied Xpipe,Akra axle back CF tips. LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec

09-10-2012, 06:52 PM	#13
leigh Captain Drives: 2011 e92 zcp m3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: melbourne Posts: 609 iTrader: (0)	If you were to put meth on a ess vt650 what kind of setup would you use?

09-10-2012, 07:43 PM	#16
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke BimmerPost Supporting Vendor Drives: 135i N55 Fbo Meth + E85 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Miami Fl Posts: 2,331 iTrader: (3)	I guess I missed it but what is the myth and what chargers are you speaking of? __________________

09-10-2012, 08:42 PM	#19
Daft Captain Drives: 2011 ZCP E92 M3 & 2003 E46 M3 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 819 iTrader: (1) Garage List 2011 BMW M3 [4.82] 2003 BMW M3 [5.00]	Solid numbers! __________________ 2011 M3 ZCP \| ESS SUPERCHARGED \| AKRAPOVIC EVOLUTION \| 20" HRE P40 \| BREMBO BBK \| B&G SPRINGS

09-10-2012, 08:46 PM	#20
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke BimmerPost Supporting Vendor Drives: 135i N55 Fbo Meth + E85 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Miami Fl Posts: 2,331 iTrader: (3)	In regards to this part "Myth.... power under the curve is great but a little research will show you that most kits on the market will make similar torque because of the behavior of the motor" This is a very broad statement with no actual facts behind it. Looking at most of the dyno's posted on here the difference at around 5200rpm can be as much as 30-40 Wtq. __________________

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