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      10-02-2012, 08:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean@VelosDesignwerks View Post
I'm referring to all out race cars that run for hours at a time. At that point cars are measured by hours not miles and it's a matter of longevity not power.

For a few laps every few months, it would depend on the quality of the system and the platform it's going on.
Do you think it would be beneficial to use supercharger on the e92 m3 for tracking for average guys or just stay with bolt-ons as it can still achieve 400+ RWHP normally aspirated?
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      10-02-2012, 09:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
Extra weight, heat, and less than linear power band are my issues with it.
Thanks for the honest feedback - which is so rare. Even more so when you're in the process of selling the kit.

There is a place for a FI on our cars and it seems best suited for short or straightline events.
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      10-02-2012, 09:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetpilot747 View Post
Do you think it would be beneficial to use supercharger on the e92 m3 for tracking for average guys or just stay with bolt-ons as it can still achieve 400+ RWHP normally aspirated?
Of course, a supercharger system will allow you to make anywhere form ~480-~580 RWHP while keeping similar characteristics of a standard M3. Instead of a standard M3, it will be a more response and powerful version.

However, as previously mentioned it's all relative and there are different systems available which hold different standards of quality.

It also depends on how far you plan to go which will dictate what mods and how much power you require.

But to answer your question in short, yes there is a benefit to running a supercharger on the track.
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      10-02-2012, 09:23 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean@VelosDesignwerks View Post
Of course, a supercharger system will allow you to make anywhere form ~480-~580 RWHP while keeping similar characteristics of a standard M3. Instead of a standard M3, it will be a more response and powerful version.

However, as previously mentioned it's all relative and there are different systems available which hold different standards of quality.

It also depends on how far you plan to go which will dictate what mods and how much power you require.

But to answer your question in short, yes there is a benefit to running a supercharger on the track.
There is a benefit, but there are also cons. But no vendor will speak of the cons. They are trying to make money off of us. How many supercharged E9x M3's are in real competition road races? Probably not many if any at all.

But vendors don't need to worry about this because 95% of the owners on this board don't track their car and do care mostly about straight line speed. Those are the ones who are going to buy supercharger kits and be extremely happy with them. I've done 15 track events in the past year and 4 of them with the supercharger. I miss everything about being N/A at the track so I'm going back. But I will miss the extra power on the street. It is a ton of fun, but I enjoy driving my car at the track far more than on the street so I'm choosing what works best for me.

And it's not just my kit. I've seen other supercharger kits having heat issues at the track especially those with DCT. My temps with the 535 kit have actually been pretty good at the track. Pretty much always on par with the N/A E9x M3's at the same events. I did six 25-minute sessions in 104 degree weather and never went into limp mode. The difference is I'm losing a lot of the extra power because of the heatsoak. I figure I'd rather drop the 100 lbs of weight that the supercharger puts on the front of the car at the track.
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      10-02-2012, 09:26 PM   #27
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PM me a price shipped to 33433 for that SC; thanks!
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      10-02-2012, 09:39 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
There is a benefit, but there are also cons. But no vendor will speak of the cons. They are trying to make money off of us. How many supercharged E9x M3's are in real competition road races? Probably not many if any at all.

But vendors don't need to worry about this because 95% of the owners on this board don't track their car and do care mostly about straight line speed. Those are the ones who are going to buy supercharger kits and be extremely happy with them. I've done 15 track events in the past year and 4 of them with the supercharger. I miss everything about being N/A at the track so I'm going back. But I will miss the extra power on the street. It is a ton of fun, but I enjoy driving my car at the track far more than on the street so I'm choosing what works best for me.

And it's not just my kit. I've seen other supercharger kits having heat issues at the track especially those with DCT. My temps with the 535 kit have actually been pretty good at the track. Pretty much always on par with the N/A E9x M3's at the same events. I did six 25-minute sessions in 104 degree weather and never went into limp mode. The difference is I'm losing a lot of the extra power because of the heatsoak. I figure I'd rather drop the 100 lbs of weight that the supercharger puts on the front of the car at the track.
Tauber Motorsport in the motherland uses a VF SC in their e46 M3 and seems to be doing well. I watched them build their race car from the ground up when I was stationed there and they worked on my car a couple of times, good people. http://www.tauber-motorsport.de/tauber_motorsport.html. Like you said, the non-intercooled kits can't handle the heat but a properly designed kit can. Lets hope that Evolve gets it right. I would like to go under 2 min in the M3 at VIR.
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      10-02-2012, 09:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
There is a benefit, but there are also cons. But no vendor will speak of the cons. They are trying to make money off of us. How many supercharged E9x M3's are in real competition road races? Probably not many if any at all.

But vendors don't need to worry about this because 95% of the owners on this board don't track their car and do care mostly about straight line speed. Those are the ones who are going to buy supercharger kits and be extremely happy with them. I've done 15 track events in the past year and 4 of them with the supercharger. I miss everything about being N/A at the track so I'm going back. But I will miss the extra power on the street. It is a ton of fun, but I enjoy driving my car at the track far more than on the street so I'm choosing what works best for me.

And it's not just my kit. I've seen other supercharger kits having heat issues at the track especially those with DCT. My temps with the 535 kit have actually been pretty good at the track. Pretty much always on par with the N/A E9x M3's at the same events. I did six 25-minute sessions in 104 degree weather and never went into limp mode. The difference is I'm losing a lot of the extra power because of the heatsoak. I figure I'd rather drop the 100 lbs of weight that the supercharger puts on the front of the car at the track.
Was heating your only issue with supercharging your m3? Or did you not like the power delivery of it as well?
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      10-02-2012, 09:49 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
There is a benefit, but there are also cons. But no vendor will speak of the cons. They are trying to make money off of us. How many supercharged E9x M3's are in real competition road races? Probably not many if any at all.

But vendors don't need to worry about this because 95% of the owners on this board don't track their car and do care mostly about straight line speed. Those are the ones who are going to buy supercharger kits and be extremely happy with them. I've done 15 track events in the past year and 4 of them with the supercharger. I miss everything about being N/A at the track so I'm going back. But I will miss the extra power on the street. It is a ton of fun, but I enjoy driving my car at the track far more than on the street so I'm choosing what works best for me.

And it's not just my kit. I've seen other supercharger kits having heat issues at the track especially those with DCT. My temps with the 535 kit have actually been pretty good at the track. Pretty much always on par with the N/A E9x M3's at the same events. I did six 25-minute sessions in 104 degree weather and never went into limp mode. The difference is I'm losing a lot of the extra power because of the heatsoak. I figure I'd rather drop the 100 lbs of weight that the supercharger puts on the front of the car at the track.
I see your point but thats what i meant by it's relative and your goals and needs should dictate your mods.

In your case the system is operating as it should, the temps are holding which is huge for a non-intercooled system on the track. In my opinion that shows the kits quality.

As far as heat soak, you will experience it whether stock or F/I but just to what level. Based on your needs you should definitely have a charge cooled system. This would greatly alter your experience as you would enjoy the power much longer before feeling drastic signs of heat soak.

The extra weight is debatable but putting the car on a diet would offset this and give you an all around better track car. However, i assume this is also a street car and would recommend charge cooling your system instead of tearing your car apart.
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      10-02-2012, 09:54 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetpilot747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean@VelosDesignwerks View Post
I'm referring to all out race cars that run for hours at a time. At that point cars are measured by hours not miles and it's a matter of longevity not power.

For a few laps every few months, it would depend on the quality of the system and the platform it's going on.
Do you think it would be beneficial to use supercharger on the e92 m3 for tracking for average guys or just stay with bolt-ons as it can still achieve 400+ RWHP normally aspirated?
Ah, back to your original question, nice.
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      10-02-2012, 09:55 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetpilot747 View Post
Was heating your only issue with supercharging your m3? Or did you not like the power delivery of it as well?
I do have power delivery issues at the track. I haven't quite figured out what it is though. I feel a surge of boost coming in somewhere around 5-6k rpms and it totally upsets the car coming out of a corner. I have to be extra careful when increasing power out of a corner.
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      10-02-2012, 10:01 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I do have power delivery issues at the track. I haven't quite figured out what it is though. I feel a surge of boost coming in somewhere around 5-6k rpms and it totally upsets the car coming out of a corner. I have to be extra careful when increasing power out of a corner.
Were you faster with the SC kit or without at Laguna Seca?
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      10-02-2012, 10:06 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean@VelosDesignwerks View Post

In your case the system is operating as it should, the temps are holding which is huge for a non-intercooled system on the track. In my opinion that shows the kits quality.
Yup ESS did an awesome job with that. This is why I went with their kit in the first place. I still strongly believe they make the best supercharger kits for the M3. Supercharging in general apparently is just not for me. It's just one of those things where I had to find out for myself. I like learning from personal experience.
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      10-02-2012, 10:10 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetpilot747 View Post
Were you faster with the SC kit or without at Laguna Seca?
It's really hard to say because I'm getting faster in general each time I go to the track because of more experience. My previous best time at Laguna was in the low 1:48's and that was before the supercharger. I ran the high 1:46 with the supercharger, but I also did 3 track days in between those 2 times at Thunderhill and Infineon Raceway so it's hard to say if I was faster because of the supercharger or because I'm just getting better as a driver. If I run slower times next time without the supercharger then I'll know the answer.
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      10-02-2012, 10:18 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
It's really hard to say because I'm getting faster in general each time I go to the track because of more experience. My previous best time at Laguna was in the low 1:48's and that was before the supercharger. I ran the high 1:46 with the supercharger, but I also did 3 track days in between those 2 times at Thunderhill and Infineon Raceway so it's hard to say if I was faster because of the supercharger or because I'm just getting better as a driver. If I run slower times next time without the supercharger then I'll know the answer.
hahaha true keep me posted! When are you going next without the SC?
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      10-02-2012, 10:22 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
It's really hard to say because I'm getting faster in general each time I go to the track because of more experience. My previous best time at Laguna was in the low 1:48's and that was before the supercharger. I ran the high 1:46 with the supercharger, but I also did 3 track days in between those 2 times at Thunderhill and Infineon Raceway so it's hard to say if I was faster because of the supercharger or because I'm just getting better as a driver. If I run slower times next time without the supercharger then I'll know the answer.
The suspense is going to kill me. Hurry up and go to the track without the SC! I put my money on you doing better than 1:46.
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      10-02-2012, 10:43 PM   #38
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      10-02-2012, 11:55 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
It's really hard to say because I'm getting faster in general each time I go to the track because of more experience. My previous best time at Laguna was in the low 1:48's and that was before the supercharger. I ran the high 1:46 with the supercharger, but I also did 3 track days in between those 2 times at Thunderhill and Infineon Raceway so it's hard to say if I was faster because of the supercharger or because I'm just getting better as a driver. If I run slower times next time without the supercharger then I'll know the answer.
Oh yea and how much power are you pushing to the wheel with the supercharger? And how much are you at now with the supercharger out?
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      10-03-2012, 03:42 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
Extra weight, heat, and less than linear power band are my issues with it.
I beg to differ. The extra weight was the only valid point. I tracked my car with a intercooled kit, the car ran MUCH cooler then stock and the power up top ( linear was insane)

You should keep your kit, upgrade to the stage two so you have cooling. It won't be heat soaked up top and your car will run much cooler.

(8-10 Track events under my belt with the SC. Back to back to back, no cooling of, just run race gas.)

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      10-03-2012, 11:35 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by tightie View Post
I beg to differ. The extra weight was the only valid point. I tracked my car with a intercooled kit, the car ran MUCH cooler then stock and the power up top ( linear was insane)

You should keep your kit, upgrade to the stage two so you have cooling. It won't be heat soaked up top and your car will run much cooler.

(8-10 Track events under my belt with the SC. Back to back to back, no cooling of, just run race gas.)

Josh
What about the power delivery?
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      10-03-2012, 12:37 PM   #42
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Agreed with tightie. We've hammered our VF620 at numerous events like ETGP, MFest as well as HPDE track days in all sorts of weather conditions. M3 is at European Car GP today competing at Streets.

It's hard to imagine the experience anymore without the boost, its on a whole other level.
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      10-03-2012, 12:51 PM   #43
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VAC has had some good experience: http://www.vacmotorsports.com/blog/tag/vf-engineering/

Seems the only real downside on supercharging a E9X is the cost. Not only for the supercharger but the big brake kit that will be a must with the increased power. And, then the suspension upgrade of course

SLIPPERY SLOPE WARNING
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      10-03-2012, 01:12 PM   #44
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