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      11-23-2012, 11:18 PM   #45
pbonsalb
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I would still like to see more 400 rwhp SAE Dynojet tunes, since it may be a while before Mahi dynes take over the US.

Last edited by pbonsalb; 11-24-2012 at 07:49 AM.
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      11-24-2012, 06:31 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Chasing a particular number is not realistic. If your car is dynoing 330whp with an ESS tune, don't expect another tuner to be able to pull significantly more. Could 340 or 350 be realistic? Sure.

My car was dynoed on a HUB dyno with the wheels OFF. Obviously there are losses associated with the wheels and tires, so to compare wheel HP from a dynojet/dyno dynamics to a hub dyno is yet another pointless exercise. Look at the delta gains. In the original post the green line was a stock 2011 M3, blue was my car with the bolt on mods, and pink was tuned with the same mods.

I just finished tuning a stroker motor about 15 minutes ago. We'll have some pretty cool stuff coming up in the near future - forget dynojet, dynapack, and dyno dynamics, I'll be using a Maha dyno from now on. That's as close to the real deal as you can get. If you're chasing horsepower, I'd prefer you choose another company to tune your car. Smoothness, power delivery, features, safety and reliability are my PRIMARY concerns. Horsepower and torque and second. I can make ANY of my M3 tunes more powerful by reducing safety margins. Many people want a dyno queen, but at what expense?

My tunes have been track, street, and dyno tested in EXTREME conditions (over 100F ambient temperatures), 300+ F oil temperates, and 110 + C coolant temperatures. If you want something more powerful, feature rich, and as reliable as BMW's factory software, you've come to the right place. If you're looking for a pretty chart with shiny lines I'd prefer if you used another company.

Thanks for your comments everyone, I hope to keep bringing you more exciting developments.

Edit: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...1&postcount=23 Added X5M dyno to post #23



Sorry, did I offended you by asking if anyone have dyno result before /after your tune. If I did offended you, that was not my intention. I just want it to see some HP/TQ difference, before and after the tune.

I saw your "dyno jet" result was very impressive, 411whp/300tq. The tq number is almost the same as car's with an stage 1 supercahrger. People said they feel the power after your tune. I'm just trying to see if anyone have dynoed their car before/after your tune. Is great to hear everyone "feel" the result of the tune. But it would also be great to "see" dyno result of the hp/tq difference before and after the tune.

My car put down 338whp/252tq from my exhaust and ess tune,which was very low. Do I expect to gain a little bit more after my software updated at the dealer and after your tune? Yes, I do expect more power after that. Because everyone were posting how their car is a beast now, how great it feel, the power and the Smoothness. Even Marco told me on the phone, If I want some real power gain I should get the tune from you and I will feel "night and day differences." Because he said "Night and Day Differences," of course I was think wow it must be some really good power gain, not unrealistic gain but some good gain. I was going to order intake and pulley next week then get the tune from you. But if by asking for dyno result from people made me looked like a number chaser, shiny dyno line seeker, dyno queen or whatever else you want to call it, then so be it . If dyno result and hp/tq number gains don't matter, then why bother post up dyno sheet or how much hp/tq a car gain from the tune.
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      11-24-2012, 06:42 AM   #47
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Isn't that what Mike posted in the first post? A before and after dyno?

Sure, it's on his car, but it shows exactly the difference between the 2 tunes, trusting that nothing else was changed like air flow, temperatures, correction factors etc.
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      11-24-2012, 06:56 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDUS View Post
Isn't that what Mike posted in the first post? A before and after dyno?

Sure, it's on his car, but it shows exactly the difference between the 2 tunes, trusting that nothing else was changed like air flow, temperatures, correction factors etc.
+1

Valentino_RS...I think Mike's response was a "general" response about dynos, and the issues with comparing one type of dyno to another and/or trying to compare one car's dyno response plot to another.
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      11-24-2012, 07:37 AM   #49
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Just forget whatever I said, have a great day.
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      11-24-2012, 07:42 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino_RS View Post
Ok, I get it. I will not be asking for dyno compare again because that will be pointless.
I'm not sure if I'd say it's pointless - comparisons, at best, can be "qualitative", not "quantitative".

I also understand your concerns because I just switched from an AA tune to the BPMSport tune. In my case it would have been great if I had the time to dyno my car with the AA tune, have Mike re-tune/flash my car, and then re-dyno with the BPMSport tune. However, it didn't play out that way. With the limited time I've had so far with the BPMSport stage 2 tune I've definitely noticed/felt various improvements with this tune but they are all "qualitative" - I'd say it was money well spent!
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      11-24-2012, 02:40 PM   #51
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ChrisDUS + M3SQRD, you hit it on the head.

Valentino_RS: I was in no way offended by your post. I was just trying to be realistic and set your expectations at a reasonable level. I'd rather under-promise and over-deliver than the other way around. If you're planning on getting an intake I would go for the AFE or stay with a drop-in filter.

I wish the customer here would post the dyno from Malaysia: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=763362 (keep in mind that results vary from car to car, dyno to dyno, not to mention fuel quality, temperature, humidity, etc..).
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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 11-24-2012 at 02:53 PM.
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      11-24-2012, 04:43 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfly_M3 View Post
don't forget that brake dynos read higher than tire/rim dynos. I think Mike baselined at 385WHP if I'm not mistaken.
This. The Church dyno AKA "moon dyno" reads significantly higher than any dyno I've ever come across. Case in point: http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/9902...et-my-results/

That's almost 20% higher than a DynoJet.
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      11-24-2012, 05:25 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urBan_dK View Post
This. The Church dyno AKA "moon dyno" reads significantly higher than any dyno I've ever come across. Case in point: http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/9902...et-my-results/

That's almost 20% higher than a DynoJet.
And the next post says "dynos are tuning tools. Don't get too concerned about the actual number. The numbers are relative."

Which is 100% correct. Comparing one dyno to another is futile exercise. Even comparing the same brand dyno to another is not by any means scientific. This is why you must look at the DELTA between the runs... THAT is accurate.

It's obvious that a Dynapack is going to read higher anyway because it's not going to account for losses from rotating the wheels and tires. It removes a variable from the equation which I think is better. The less variables you have the more accurate the result.
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      11-24-2012, 07:23 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
And the next post says "dynos are tuning tools. Don't get too concerned about the actual number. The numbers are relative."

Which is 100% correct. Comparing one dyno to another is futile exercise. Even comparing the same brand dyno to another is not by any means scientific. This is why you must look at the DELTA between the runs... THAT is accurate.

It's obvious that a Dynapack is going to read higher anyway because it's not going to account for losses from rotating the wheels and tires. It removes a variable from the equation which I think is better. The less variables you have the more accurate the result.
Perhaps obvious to you, but not everyone. When they see a thread title that says 430 HP on a car people struggle to get 400 HP from NA, there needs to be a little more information on the dyno itself. I just wanted to provide some info so people can compare to typical Dynojet numbers.
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      11-24-2012, 11:40 PM   #55
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Gotcha.. this is why the baseline runs are there though - to show a stock car on the same dyno, my car with all bolt-ons, and then bolt-ons with tune. It's not like I baselined 350 and then made 430 after tune. Many of those cars that 'struggle to get 400HP from NA' might hit it on that dyno because it's not accounting for losses from the rim/tire size and weight.

VCMPower recgonized this here http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=38 when the active cars saw difference in power when going from one wheel size to another. Minimizing variables is the key to successful dyno results. Not everyone is dynoing with the same wheel/tire size and strap down tension. A hub dyno elimanates both of those variables that can have an adverse effect on results.
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      11-25-2012, 12:03 AM   #56
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Mike just tuned my car on Friday. The whole process was incredibly easy. 2011 e90 zcp running 231e with Akra Evo and delete-r. Before the tune I was completely happy with the car but don't think the neighbors (shared common walls in garage) really cared for my morning start up so main motivation was cold start delete.

Removed delete-r and Mike updated to 240e then his stage II tune.

Cold start gone! What I wasn't expecting was such a dramatic increase in smoothness. The car drives so much better now. I didn't think there was much room for improvement but it really is drastic. Also seems to pull harder but don't have dyno or timeslips to compare for real results.
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      11-25-2012, 01:28 PM   #57
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There is a very common misconception at the actual purpose of a dynamometer. They are not designed to put out the same numbers across various machines in various locations for bench racing. The same model dyno manufactured by the same company can put out different numbers.

They key is understanding that the dyno is not much more than a gauge. It's there to take measurements. The most crucial element is that one dyno will provide consistent readings, so changes in power/torque output can be measured. This is the only purpose of dyno.

Dynapacks remove certain variables which can alter results/consistency including tire slip, tread condition/hight, amount of torque applied when tying car down (creating more friction), etc... Measuring at the hubs is the closet thing to an engine dyno.

Also, I cannot speak highly enough for the integrity of Church. I've been working with them for nearly 10 years, and it's been nothing but the best. There's no PR, no yupyism, no videos, no sponsorships, just people who love working on motors.

I started working with Mike prior to the inception of BPM Sport. He's as much of an enthusiast as any of us are, and is more interested in making more reliable power on an M3, than selling a product. He's been great to work with, and a great friend. All my overly engineered German cars have been tuned by Mike flawlessly.

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      11-25-2012, 02:01 PM   #58
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Hey guys, I wanted to chime in on this thread. Alittle background on my car. I have a 08 m3, that was originally dinan tuned, then powerchip tuned, then about 7ish months ago Mike tuned it , and most recently I purchased a tuning cable from Mike/BPMSport. The dinan tune, was rather lame, the powerchip tune felt like how the dinan tune should have felt, and when Mike happened to be in NY/NJ about 7 months ago he tuned my car, which was incredible. Then about 2 weeks ago I purchased a cable from BPM and Mike remotely updated my car from 110e to 240e and retuned. I wanted to put a few miles on the car before I commented, but after my morning drive to get coffee I had to comment. Mikes 240e tune is just straight insane, I have about 500 miles on it, and the car with each drive feels increasingly healthier. Im not sure what I can add that has not already been said, but this tune is everything then some. The remote tuning I really thought would be a huge headache, but it was so so so so easy. The update took circa 5 minutes, and then the tune took about another 5 minutes. Mike also put in some goodies like launch control, turned off cold start, and lowered redline on coldstart. I have said it before in my other reviews of Mikes work, but I will say it again, I do not trust many people with my car, but I know I can trust mike and his work.
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      12-03-2012, 01:48 AM   #59
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How do I tell what software version do I have or how can I find out?
And also I have Japanese spec m3 and was wonder if there is difference between eu, us, jp version on ecu.
Is it possible for me to have this software update?
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      12-03-2012, 04:24 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90m3japan View Post
How do I tell what software version do I have or how can I find out?
And also I have Japanese spec m3 and was wonder if there is difference between eu, us, jp version on ecu.
Is it possible for me to have this software update?
If you have access to someone who has INPA on a laptop, it can be read out.

There might be a slight difference for Japan, but not necessarily. I think it is safe to say that Mike also can provide a tune for you. Probably it will be the same as Europe, but not sure.
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      12-08-2012, 12:39 PM   #61
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Will reply to the last few comments when I get home today or sometime tomorrow.

At Willow Springs now and have some awesome HD footage of being one foot from a GT3 at 140 mph. He's faster in the turns and at stopping but on the straight I had to let off to stop from rear ending him.

Also have the laptop plugged into the OBD port logging everything to make sure the tune is as perfect as it was the last track event

Stay 'tuned'. Group buy being launched soon!
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      12-11-2012, 01:29 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90m3japan View Post
How do I tell what software version do I have or how can I find out?
And also I have Japanese spec m3 and was wonder if there is difference between eu, us, jp version on ecu.
Is it possible for me to have this software update?
You'll need the cable to determine the software version, or a laptop with INPA, or an Autologic. If you have service records from the dealer which indicate a software update, I can also tell you what software you have based on the integration level last applied to the car.

Regardless, the 240E update was a world wide thing. I have the 240E software for every region BMW has produced, so it's not a problem updating and tuning you on the version that is correct for your region. Recently have updated and then tuned cars in Germany, Australia, Japan, even Tahiti!

Have been shipping cables left and right with glowing results. Retuned a few cars that were previously tuned by others and I love the feedback I'm getting. The group buy for tuning is being launched soon, I am producing more cables today to keep up with the demand.

After I answer the backlog of 300 emails and make this batch of cables, I will figure out how to post the videos and logs from the track. My HD dashcam is not happy after yesterdays firmware update, so I have to figure out how to recover it.

I carefully reviewed the datalogs after the track and was nothing short of impressed. The car hit every vanos and ignition target I set which is great news. It means the calibration is working in harmony with the car.
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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 12-15-2012 at 06:59 PM.
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      12-11-2012, 01:42 PM   #63
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Mike, just curious but what are you using for tuning? Wideband? What type of datalogging are you doing? Is the car pulling timing at all? Any knock? thanks!
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      12-11-2012, 04:05 PM   #64
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Mike, just curious but what are you using for tuning? Wideband? What type of datalogging are you doing? Is the car pulling timing at all? Any knock? thanks!
Yes, wideband - also logging vanos targeted position vs actual position for intake and exhaust camshafts. I use many different tools to log, from factory tools such as INPA, BT, and the logging software I posted a picture of. Big difference between setting actual targets and actually achieving them. You can see from the screenshot I posted that the targeted position and actual position almost match exactly.

No knock. I run less ignition timing than DINAN does I couldn't believe my eyes the other day when a DINAN car I retuned in Canada (chowster I think is his name on this board) had 37 degree ignition targets at redline using 91 octane. Way too much! A lot of tuners like to set timing targets high and ride on the knock sensors. I prefer to set realistic and achievable targets and use the knock sensors as a secondary means to reduce ignition timing.

This way the car is always happy and isn't trying to overshoot.

Now I did put a 95-96 octane tune in my car the other day with 100 octane fuel and I'm about ready to move to the east coast just because the fuel here in CA is terrible. The difference with higher octane is massive. You can actually hear the engine note change around 6,500 RPM and up (if you listen closely) due to the cam timing adjustments:

My plugs have 18k on them. On the track I was hitting 8,800 RPM. God I love this V8.

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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 12-11-2012 at 04:11 PM.
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      12-11-2012, 04:21 PM   #65
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Great video! Sounds freaking awesome.

I seriously need some sort of cat delete haha.....and Euro MDM Retrofit.
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      12-11-2012, 04:24 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
Great video! Sounds freaking awesome.

I seriously need some sort of cat delete haha.....and Euro MDM Retrofit.
Let me know, euro MDM is a blast and is part of the standard coding options I offer (if you already have the M button). And of course for those that don't, the entire Mdrive functionality (MDM, servotronic steering, sport plus) can be retrofitted remotely as well.

PS: E46 M3's are a beast on the track. I was behind one that had a track setup two days ago @ Willow Springs, and holy cow that thing was glued to the ground.

Thanks!

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