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      08-21-2012, 05:49 PM   #1
TMR013
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Saw a Scion FR-S on the road today

It's a pretty good looking car in person. Front end is not near as bad as I thought it was.
Have read a little bit about it, sounds interesting. But with a 2 liter non-turbo that only puts out 200hp and 151 torques, it seems Toyota is letting people down with the engine.
Anybody driven one yet?
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      08-21-2012, 05:58 PM   #2
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It's a pretty good looking car in person. Front end is not near as bad as I thought it was.
Have read a little bit about it, sounds interesting. But with a 2 liter non-turbo that only puts out 200hp and 151 torques, it seems Toyota is letting people down with the engine.
Anybody driven one yet?
I drove one and it is lacking... Subaru Engine without turbo? WHY?!? It does handle very well and compared to the predecessor the Corolla AE86 it is so much better. BTW it is meant to be a drift car for tuners. Lot's of potential if you want to engine swap and turbo. Nice looking but why Toyota... Why no POWER? (MHO)

-Ray
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      08-21-2012, 05:59 PM   #3
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Haven't driven one, but the formula for this car is pure, balanced driving excitement (similar to the MX-5) rather than power. If I was looking for a driving machine in the mid to upper twenties price range I would probably get one of these, or it's brother the new Suburu BRZ.
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      08-21-2012, 06:02 PM   #4
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I drove the Subaru twin, and it's something. Yes, it's a little underpowered, but it's blast to drive. The magazine reviews talking about what a joy it is? Yeah, it's not hyperbole. The steering is positively alive, and the chassis is perfectly balanced. The choice of cheap, grip-less tires is actually brilliant from a sales perspective. It's very easy to push it right up to its admittedly low limits "out of the box" without insane speeds.

If you haven't seen the Chris Harris comparison between the BRZ, 370Z, and used Cayman S yet, it's just about perfect. I drove a used Cayman S the weekend before I drove the BRZ, and when Chris says that the BRZ/FR-S is somehow more exciting than the Porsche, he's not kidding.

Of all the cars I've driven, it slots somewhere between a 240SX (my first car) and a S2000. It's got more than enough power to be fun (something my 240 was sometimes lacking), and while not quite as razor sharp as the S2000, it might be the closest thing to it that I've driven.

Downsides that you haven't already read about? The clutch is terrible. Softest clutch I've ever used. Much softer than the one in my GTI, and I didn't think that was possible. You get used to it, but I actually looked down as I was getting ready to drive off to see if I actually was pushing down on anything. The interior is as cheap as they say it is too. And while I think it's a great looking car from most angles, the back is just "eh".

Last edited by elbles; 08-21-2012 at 06:05 PM. Reason: Additional comparison
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      08-21-2012, 06:03 PM   #5
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if i didn't find the deal i got on my 128i, i wouldve gotten the BRZ/FRS. slow, yes but they handle absolutely amazing. throw a set of actual tires under it and it would be even better. i hear they're working on turbo kits for them already.
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      08-21-2012, 06:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012_135i View Post
Haven't driven one, but the formula for this car is pure, balanced driving excitement (similar to the MX-5) rather than power. If I was looking for a driving machine in the mid to upper twenties price range I would probably get one of these, or it's brother the new Suburu BRZ.
I agree about the formula, but I had a first gen MX-5 and it accelerated with some excitement. This just feels underpowered. I would say wait to see if Subaru releases a performance edition. It is great for the $ but it wouldn't be too much more for a performance edition.

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      08-21-2012, 08:39 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye View Post
if i didn't find the deal i got on my 128i, i wouldve gotten the BRZ/FRS. slow, yes but they handle absolutely amazing. throw a set of actual tires under it and it would be even better. i hear they're working on turbo kits for them already.
Turbo kits are nearly ready! Here's an Aussie made one.
http://www.performancegarage.com.au/...o-flex-fuel-86

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With the Haltech wired in the car made 163kW on 5.8psi with 98 octane pump fuel. Standard cat-back exhaust, standard injectors and fuel pump. The car made 103kW completely standard, and the aim was an extra 50kW on top of that with the turbo, so 163kW had us smiling.
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Back on the dyno we drained out the 98 octane and filled up with Caltex E-Flex fuel. With the GM flex fuel sensor, the Haltech monitors fuel composition and can detect exact ethanol percentage on the fly, and adjust the tune to suit.After a handful of runs to make sure it was all functioning as it should, we came away with our final result of 211kW
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      08-21-2012, 09:38 PM   #8
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Subaru is supposedly developing an STi version I'd estimate at 265-275 hp as to not cannibalize the WRX STi. The reason they're not turbo'd now is that with the N/A boxer engine it allows the engine to sit very low compared to a turbo'd version so it can achieve a low center of gravity. Pair that with 50/50 balance and you got one serious handling machine.

Though their acceleration is an embarrassment, I've seen an MX5 beat one and a Civic SI beat one. Both a lot less than the crazy marked up price ($26-30K) at the dealer brand new. I'd get a used S2000 before either BRZ/FR-S.
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      08-21-2012, 09:51 PM   #9
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Close friend ordered a BRZ 2 months ago and is finally taking delivery this Friday. Needless to say, I've read and watched every possible article/video out there. To anyone saying its slow, that's completely relative to the track it is on/price range you're talking about. This thing is going to tear it up in Auto-X and even on smaller tracks.

Its not among cars like the MP4C, GT-R black edition, Aventador, 911 S, and a few more for Motor trends "Driver's car of the year" award for nothing...

Yes, its slow as hell in a straight line. Haha.
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      08-21-2012, 10:56 PM   #10
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Just saw my first one the other week. Much smaller in person (even though I knew it's dimensions). I don't *love* the styling, but I don't find it offensive either. I haven't driven one, but I love the concept of the car. I wouldn't mind downgrading to a cheaper and more importantly lighter car (and brand new, longer warranty). I could live with less power, but would probably regret it when the higher power version comes out. Any guesses on the price of an STi? $32K?

BTW, here is the video elbles referenced above:

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      08-22-2012, 07:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135iMike View Post
Close friend ordered a BRZ 2 months ago and is finally taking delivery this Friday. Needless to say, I've read and watched every possible article/video out there. To anyone saying its slow, that's completely relative to the track it is on/price range you're talking about. This thing is going to tear it up in Auto-X and even on smaller tracks.
Its not among cars like the MP4C, GT-R black edition, Aventador, 911 S, and a few more for Motor trends "Driver's car of the year" award for nothing...

Yes, its slow as hell in a straight line. Haha.
you should have said, "only on smaller tracks".

The Ford Mustang II won Motortrends "Car of the Year" when it first came out.
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      08-22-2012, 11:47 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012_135i View Post
Haven't driven one, but the formula for this car is pure, balanced driving excitement (similar to the MX-5) rather than power.
Spot on, though I suspect we'll see higher output variants later on with there being rumors of a BRZ STi. It wouldn't surprise me if there were turbo versions developed alongside the naturally aspirated models with the marketing department deciding the release dates of each to help sales of the NA models.

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Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye View Post
if i didn't find the deal i got on my 128i, i wouldve gotten the BRZ/FRS. slow, yes but they handle absolutely amazing. throw a set of actual tires under it and it would be even better. i hear they're working on turbo kits for them already.
Road & Track had a brief article about swapping out the stock tires for some Dunlap Direzza Z1's and said it made a world of difference.
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      08-24-2012, 08:59 PM   #13
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I love the idea of the car but I don't think I could live with that interior as a daily driver. It's one of the reasons I'm looking at the 128i as my next car. I don't need a fancy interior but I do like it to be a little more professional looking and less boy racer. But to each his own.
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      08-24-2012, 09:19 PM   #14
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One of my neighbors have one and I must say if it didnt have the scion emblem and had different wheels I would be fooled if someone said it was a supercar
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      08-24-2012, 09:21 PM   #15
631twentyeighteye
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just a point of reference, they pull .91g's on the skid pad with tires that are optional for the PRIUS.
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      08-25-2012, 02:50 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matmanx1 View Post
I love the idea of the car but I don't think I could live with that interior as a daily driver. It's one of the reasons I'm looking at the 128i as my next car. I don't need a fancy interior but I do like it to be a little more professional looking and less boy racer. But to each his own.
This is what I've been thinking about as well. I don't care much about what other people think and I'm not a badge snob, but the FR-S/BRZ feel a bit too boy racer for me, especially inside (and I think the the Subaru is a bit more mature than the Scion inside). I'll be test driving the BRZ in a few months and I'm sure I'll like elements of it, but it's hard to imagine driving it back and forth to work without feeling like I'm borrowing some teenager's car. It's kind of like skinny jeans: even if I liked them (I don't) and I fit in them (no chance), I wouldn't wear them because it just wouldn't feel right.

That said, I am excited about the BRZ/FR-S and I give Subaru and Toyota massive credit for pulling it out like they did. Not since the Miata has a car hit its target market so precisely IMO. If I were to have two cars to myself, I might go with a 328i as my daily driver and a mildly modded BRZ as a weekend toy. But seeing as I'm only looking for one car, I think I'll go with a 128i because it has one foot in the adult world without losing its fun factor.

It's kind of funny: If I were 18 right now, I'd think the FR-S/BRZ were made for me and I'd probably have a soft spot for cars like it even as I got older. And that's kind of how I feel about the E30 because I started driving in the late '80s, so the 128i kind of hits that soft spot for me as the last NA inline 6 BMW coupe they may make in a long time, maybe ever.
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      08-25-2012, 04:40 AM   #17
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with turbo 350+ hp i would want it - regardless of the interior

looks good imo
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      08-25-2012, 08:10 AM   #18
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      08-25-2012, 07:07 PM   #19
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You really can't own a car like this and enjoy it without getting shown up daily. Everybody knows what is since it's been so hyped. Everybody knows it's under powered. It sticks out like a sore thumb. Everybody would try to race you and they would probably win. That's no fun. Hell, I just did that yesterday. Had to.
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      08-25-2012, 07:33 PM   #20
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The point of the car wasn't power. It was to remind people that driving a slightly underpowered car can be just as fun as driving a powerful one.
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      08-25-2012, 07:34 PM   #21
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I drove an FRS. They only had an AT, so that was a bit limiting.

Overall, this is a FANTASTIC car to drive. The suspension tuning is right up there, and perhaps a bit better, than much of what BMW does.
The biggest benefit is its light weight, and as we know BMW doesn't seem to know what light weight sport coupes are.

The handling is sublime. Accurate, great geel. The ride is very smooth and loves to roll over road imperfections with no jarring or harshness.
I was able to take it on a 2 lane semi twisty road, and this baby carries a lot of speed through turns with no nearly no body roll, just smoothness and controlability. If you're looking for a great track car to practice line precision and momentum, this baby sings.
I was amazed how much room there is. The seats are a bit tight for my size, but other than that there is plenty of room to be comfortable and drive all day.
The shoulder room actually feel a bit wider than in my 135i, impressive.

The one aspect that I was very surprised by and LOVE about this car, the brakes. EXCELLENT feel. If you've driven Porsche's, then you'll know the engineers did their homework in this car. Brake pedal travel to bite is nearly non existent. Brake force is done by modulating force on the pedal, not be moving the pedal farther towards the fire wall. There is just a hint of pedal travel to let you know you're not pressing on a wood block.
I wish all sporty, sport coupes and sedans had brake feel like this.

The auto trans was surprisingly good. In full auto mode it shifts smoothly and fairly quick, but it manual mode the AT shows it's a modern design. Very quick to respond to the paddles around the steering wheel.
They didn't have an MT. An MT is a natural for this car, and would be more fun.

It truly has the little engine that could. NO, it doesn't have big power, it's pretty low on torque, but what it has moves it along nicely. If you're a fan of boxer engines, then you'll love the cool odd cadence of this little 4 banger. The low amount of torque it has pulls out nicely and at decent low rpm. But, it seems you get all of it's torque early on, and there isn't much left to give as the tach climbs. And, the tach climbs kinds slowly, meaning this little engine doesn't love to rev out like a high strung proper Honda 4. That was a bit of a let down.
Power comes on nicely, and then continues, but not with much urgency.
Hopefully the turbo won't give huge low rpm torque, rather, build torque with rpm and let the engine breathe out for better track control.
The chassis feels as if it could easily handle 50% more HP, and well over 50% more torque. With 275hp/275lb ft, this thing would be a monster. With 2800lbs and that power, it will be 10.2lbs per hp/lb ft.
With that power to weight it'll hold it's own no problem.

So what if this car loses a drag race to a Camry. That's not the point of what this car is. Even with the prodigious power in our 135i's, on the track with twisty turns, this thing will have you thinking your 135i needs more power. But, what you actually need is much less weight and a better, much better, suspension.

Yes, in person it does look very nice.
The interior is exactly what you'd imagine it would be, nothing special.
So unspecial that you wonder why it costs so much. The audio system absolutely blows.
Chassis and suspension can't be that much, but it's where the most engineering time was spent, and that little engine can't be that expensive.
If so, then look at the Subaru, which has a nicer interior, but it costs a bit more too.
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      08-25-2012, 08:00 PM   #22
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I hadn't seen ANY on the roads at all until today. Then I came across both twins:



Beautiful cars in person. Didn't spot either of the owners anywhere, but if I did I would have liked to chat.

I want to test drive one. With an LSD and good feel to driving it, I would take that over all-out power anyway. If you're looking for that, then I know a kid in a '90s civic hatchback with a 1000 hp turbo engine that can kick your car's ass anyway. It's not always about brute strength. I'm sure a turbo version will come out soon, but aftermarket kits are already in the works. But think of the miata.. or even an s2k. The point was never power for those cars either. Just because other manufacturers are having a ridiculous horsepower war now, doesn't mean everyone that doesn't play loses.
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