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      10-06-2012, 12:04 AM   #23
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It's important to recognize that it's a small number of people who act like idiots. 99% of Muslims condemn the people who say stupid stuff like that.

Every religion has idiots, but our media shows the Muslim ones, Middle Eastern media shows the Christian ones, Pakistani media shows the Christian and Hindu ones, South Korean media shows the North Korean ones, etc. And that only makes the rift bigger.
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      10-06-2012, 12:52 PM   #24
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I feel for the vast majority of Muslims who abhor the hijacking of their religion, I really do. But facts are facts and the radicals have the steering wheel and have established themselves as the face of Islam. If moderates don't like their actions it would be nice to hear from them, en masse. Perhaps they might even kill a few radicals here and there to send a message. But in the meantime, Islam and Muslims are a very real danger to western countries and they have to be dealt with.
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      10-06-2012, 01:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldArmy
I feel for the vast majority of Muslims who abhor the hijacking of their religion, I really do. But facts are facts and the radicals have the steering wheel and have established themselves as the face of Islam. If moderates don't like their actions it would be nice to hear from them, en masse. Perhaps they might even kill a few radicals here and there to send a message. But in the meantime, Islam and Muslims are a very real danger to western countries and they have to be dealt with.
Listen to yourself. " If you don't like the situation kill them." Look at your username , too one dimensional to go on any further. How could anyone have a discussion with you?

Unfortunately, oldarmy and other foxnewsers don't get out of their comfort zone to realize that these attacks WERE condemned by many bodies of authority in the Muslim world.

I would also challenge you to provide one example of how Islam is incompatible with the west based on what's in the Quran. Anyone.

Because the same ideas are in Judaism and Christianity. Know why? They are both simply named Judaism and Christianity when in fact those three religions ARE Islam. true submission to God IS Islam.

I really would like to hear more from ppl here as most ppl disregard religion especially those outside what they've been brought up as.
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      10-07-2012, 11:30 AM   #26
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Let's please try to differentiate between Islam, and Muslims
They are not one and the same
The fact that some people are idiots, should not reflect badly on a religion
The violence that started due to this movie, is not justified by the religion

And the first mistake you are all doing, is looking at the islamic countries with western eyes
You can't do that
What seems normal here, isn't normal globally
That's partially western imperialist thinking
That we are so much better than them
You're not, and neither are they
Different parts of the world have different rules, systems
Doesn't mean they are wrong.
and it doesn't mean your right either

I'm lucky that I'm Muslim,and I've lived abroad half of my life
So I understand both sides

I just don't understand why it's so hard for Americans to fathom that Muslims hold god, and Mohammed in such high esteem.
It's a foreign thing for Americans.
heck I get offended when its something that reflect badly on Jesus
I was recently at a Madonna concert, and I didn't like the fact that she used the cross with the letters M D N A on it
That's a religious sign, and should be held in respect
Not used for personal financial gain

As for the whole freedom of speech thing
That's just BS
I'm not saying I don't believe in freedom of speech, I do
But freedom of speech does not mean you say whatever you want
In most countries in Europe, if you say the holocaust never happened, you'd go straight to jail
Do I have the freedom of speech to call a black guy the N word?
No
Because freedom of speech is not the same as being able to say anything to anyone, anytime. Thats not freedom, that's anarchy

The reaction to the movie was wrong
But so was the whole, we should never say sorry, and this is our freedom of speech
Your freedom ends when it encroaches on someone else's freedoms
I just wish before people judge Islam. That they'd read up on it
Somewhere other than fox news
And if anyone thinks Islam is a violent region, I have some interesting quotes from the bible that show christianity has the same thing.
No religion is perfect, and furthermore it's the people who follow it that really mess it up
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      10-07-2012, 05:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Let's please try to differentiate between Islam, and Muslims
They are not one and the same
The fact that some people are idiots, should not reflect badly on a religion
The violence that started due to this movie, is not justified by the religion

And the first mistake you are all doing, is looking at the islamic countries with western eyes
You can't do that
What seems normal here, isn't normal globally
That's partially western imperialist thinking
That we are so much better than them
You're not, and neither are they
Different parts of the world have different rules, systems
Doesn't mean they are wrong.
and it doesn't mean your right either

I'm lucky that I'm Muslim,and I've lived abroad half of my life
So I understand both sides

I just don't understand why it's so hard for Americans to fathom that Muslims hold god, and Mohammed in such high esteem.
It's a foreign thing for Americans.
heck I get offended when its something that reflect badly on Jesus
I was recently at a Madonna concert, and I didn't like the fact that she used the cross with the letters M D N A on it
That's a religious sign, and should be held in respect
Not used for personal financial gain

As for the whole freedom of speech thing
That's just BS
I'm not saying I don't believe in freedom of speech, I do
But freedom of speech does not mean you say whatever you want
In most countries in Europe, if you say the holocaust never happened, you'd go straight to jail
Do I have the freedom of speech to call a black guy the N word?
No
Because freedom of speech is not the same as being able to say anything to anyone, anytime. Thats not freedom, that's anarchy

The reaction to the movie was wrong
But so was the whole, we should never say sorry, and this is our freedom of speech
Your freedom ends when it encroaches on someone else's freedoms
I just wish before people judge Islam. That they'd read up on it
Somewhere other than fox news
And if anyone thinks Islam is a violent region, I have some interesting quotes from the bible that show christianity has the same thing.
No religion is perfect, and furthermore it's the people who follow it that really mess it up
Well said.
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      10-07-2012, 07:18 PM   #28
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The attack on the consulate in Benghazi had nothing to do with any movie; it was a coordinated attack by al-Qaeda.

Statements such as "I just don't understand why it's so hard for Americans to fathom that Muslims hold god, and Mohammed in such high esteem.
It's a foreign thing for Americans" demonstate the same kind of xenophobic mentality you claim to be superior to, sinice you've "lived abroad half of my life". Anyone who would attempt to describe the citizens of this country as one similar monobloc doesn't know very much about our populace.

I am offended by the statement "As for the whole freedom of speech thing
That's just BS
I'm not saying I don't believe in freedom of speech, I do
But ". Always a but with someone who really doesn't believe in free speech.

I agree that the concept of free speech is difficult, and a slippery slope. I'm thankful we have a Constitution and a legal system to define it for our citizens, instead of your definition. I am offended quite frequently with things I read and hear, but being offended is part of free speech sometimes. I have no desire for the European definition of "free speech", which seems to be whatever the government will allow, and what is politically correct.

Here's an example of how free speech works in the United States: remember the uproar over the comments by the president of Chick-fil-a regarding gay marriage? At least it was an uproar by some who were offended. The gay/lesbian community organized a kiss in at the restaurants. Meanwhile, those who supported the president's right to say whatever he said organized a support day on a Wednesday, and encouraged supporters to buy meals at Chick fil A that day.

Both groups conducted their days, and guess what? Not a single violent protest by any gay/lesbian group, nor by any group of Chick-fil-A supporters. And when the dust had cleared, the company said it would stay out of the politcal arena, and reiterated its support for all customers in its communities.

That, my friend, is how free speech works.
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      10-07-2012, 07:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselDiner View Post
The attack on the consulate in Benghazi had nothing to do with any movie; it was a coordinated attack by al-Qaeda.

Statements such as "I just don't understand why it's so hard for Americans to fathom that Muslims hold god, and Mohammed in such high esteem.
It's a foreign thing for Americans" demonstate the same kind of xenophobic mentality you claim to be superior to, sinice you've "lived abroad half of my life". Anyone who would attempt to describe the citizens of this country as one similar monobloc doesn't know very much about our populace.

I am offended by the statement "As for the whole freedom of speech thing
That's just BS
I'm not saying I don't believe in freedom of speech, I do
But ". Always a but with someone who really doesn't believe in free speech.

I agree that the concept of free speech is difficult, and a slippery slope. I'm thankful we have a Constitution and a legal system to define it for our citizens, instead of your definition. I am offended quite frequently with things I read and hear, but being offended is part of free speech sometimes. I have no desire for the European definition of "free speech", which seems to be whatever the government will allow, and what is politically correct.

Here's an example of how free speech works in the United States: remember the uproar over the comments by the president of Chick-fil-a regarding gay marriage? At least it was an uproar by some who were offended. The gay/lesbian community organized a kiss in at the restaurants. Meanwhile, those who supported the president's right to say whatever he said organized a support day on a Wednesday, and encouraged supporters to buy meals at Chick fil A that day.

Both groups conducted their days, and guess what? Not a single violent protest by any gay/lesbian group, nor by any group of Chick-fil-A supporters. And when the dust had cleared, the company said it would stay out of the politcal arena, and reiterated its support for all customers in its communities.

That, my friend, is how free speech works.

Well said my fellow Bimmer fan.
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      10-08-2012, 08:43 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neph View Post

I would also challenge you to provide one example of how Islam is incompatible with the west based on what's in the Quran. Anyone.

Because the same ideas are in Judaism and Christianity. Know why?
Simple- Muslim nations still commonly practice the cruel, barbaric bronze age crap in their magic book, while nations comprised primarily of the other two Abrahamic religions have moved on. When is the last time you heard of a public stoning in a predominately Christian or secular nation?

What has Islam done to earn respect?

Last edited by carve; 10-08-2012 at 09:08 AM.
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      10-08-2012, 08:59 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldArmy View Post
I feel for the vast majority of Muslims who abhor the hijacking of their religion, I really do. But facts are facts and the radicals have the steering wheel and have established themselves as the face of Islam. If moderates don't like their actions it would be nice to hear from them, en masse. Perhaps they might even kill a few radicals here and there to send a message. But in the meantime, Islam and Muslims are a very real danger to western countries and they have to be dealt with.
*facepalm*

How can you start by talking about the hijacking of Islam (which suggests you understand the difference between Islam and terrorism) and then conclude by saying "Islam and Muslims are a very real danger..." That is not only factually incorrect but insulting. I'm a Muslim and I'm no danger/threat to anyone.
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