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      09-09-2012, 12:52 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh View Post
so your level 2 cars run more boost but have just the same power........
We use the same pulley for the new and old stage 2 Which accounts for the small increase in boost..

The power differences are minimal and only at the very top.

----> 625 -15% for drive loss is 532 Whp.
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      09-09-2012, 12:59 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
We use the same pulley for the new and old stage 2 Which accounts for the small increase in boost..

The power differences are minimal and only at the very top.

----> 625 -15% for drive loss is 532 Whp.
so an other 1psi doesn't make 20-25hp?
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      09-09-2012, 01:01 AM   #91
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Not on our kit.
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      09-09-2012, 02:04 AM   #92
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Blah Blah Blah!!!

Akh23456, just meet up with M33 or IMG alreay and no more excuses!!!

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      09-09-2012, 02:11 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by biglare
Blah Blah Blah!!!

Akh23456, just meet up with M33 or IMG alreay and no more excuses!!!

That's what I'm saying.
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      09-09-2012, 02:34 AM   #94
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Zim is on the side line pacing back and forth breathing heavily .....
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      09-09-2012, 06:11 AM   #95
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      09-09-2012, 08:04 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
One important varibale you overlooked in your comparison is only the AA cars are running meth, with meth I made 586whp at 7.3psi, VT625, without 558WHP.

Regardless the HKS blower loses power up top in those dyno's, in the range that is important on a high reving V8, ~6500-8400rpm is where it really counts in a staightline roll run, and they lowered the redline to 8100 rpm, IMO that makes less sense on this motor to run that blower and lower the redline, vs the Vortech with stock or a slightly increased redline. I believe they said the new blower addresses some of that, regardless the recent dyno is nowhere near 586whp.

In terms of track comparisons, at the same track, Erm's VT625 trapped 132 MPH in positive DA, AK's AA Stage 2 hit 126 in negative DA, same day the VT535 trapped 125, if Erm had ran his VT625 in negative DA, the gap would be even larger in terms of trap speeds.

Objectively with regards to the E9X supercharger kits, currently there is no comparison between AA and ESS, in terms of reliability, results, etc. The E46 I I would agree, but as far as the E9X kits, all of the other companies, have quite a lot of catching up to do.

Lol Rick runs when he trapped 132 was also in negative DA on March 4 around 12 pm it -721 . Please stop posting false information.

Area under the curve is key not peak HP.

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Zim is on the side line pacing back and forth breathing heavily .....
lol If you go to Mpact hopefully we can run if not i'll try and come to the City Saturday and we can run Sunday.

Quote:
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lol


I don't get why so people are so hurt over this run. Lm and I chill alot down here and is it wrong to run a friend?
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      09-09-2012, 10:35 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akh23456 View Post
Lol Rick runs when he trapped 132 was also in negative DA on March 4 around 12 pm it -721 . Please stop posting false information.

Area under the curve is key not peak HP.
You're right, -700 vs. -1600, my apologies, regardless had he ran that day when you did, he'd widened the gap which was my point, there is no refuting that since your car did 1-2 mph better than a non intercooled, VT535 kit.

Where did I say peak HP? I'm talking about the area under the curve as well, from 6500-8400rpm, is that not the area under the curve on this motor where you are most of the time in a straightline race? You and Andrew need to get over it, the Vortech is a better blower for the S65, more so in the first dyno flip posted, the 2nd dyno not so much, but with Meth, meaning apples to apples, different story in any dyno to date as well as trap speed results and 60-130 data. There's only a few AA dyno's to even source, there are an abudunce of ESS dyno's and the VT535 - 625 have all made 500+, VT625's have made near 600whp, and a VT650, 600whp.

Lol, one oversight and I need to stop posting false information, hyperbole much AK? You excel in that area, whether it's you claiming I said the DCT has an advantage of 10MPH, when I didn't, whether it's making excuses about not running another car besides LM, cause you never have in over a year, or claiming you ran a 6 second 60-130, but for some reason you don't feel the need to post the results, where you whined about me adding a list in order of trap speeds to the 1/4 mile sticky because you think it makes ESS look better, do you have a problem with facts? Then there's more excuses about meth issues, bald tires, broken belts, there's always something wrong, even when you win or do well, or whether you bash this forum when you post on another. It's the same story with you, constant excuses and misleading uninformed comments. What you need to do is man up and stop worrying about what the other guy does, or exaggerate when you believe you are catching someone in a lie, or as if everyone with a different setup than you has a motive, stop acting like a little child.
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      09-09-2012, 10:56 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
Like I mentioned the vortech is a larger unit you cannot compare its psi with our psi. If we had the same blowers then it would be a direct comparison.

Here is a dyno I posted in another section of our 625 kit

Note- 8100 rpm is redline on all of our kits.

now I'm not 100% on this but isn't the psi taken from the manifold?
You are correct.

Boost is boost, measured at the manifold it does not matter if it got there by a vortech blower, hks blower or hamster wheel. Not sure why anyone would think or believe different.
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      09-09-2012, 11:05 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
You are correct.

Boost is boost, measured at the manifold it does not matter if it got there by a vortech blower, hks blower or hamster wheel. Not sure why anyone would think or believe different.
Agreed, it's wacko land in here at times. If you compare equal peak output, not boost, for the most part the HKS will make more TQ and have more power under the curve, who does that though when they compare or rate kits? If you compare boost, which most people should do, then the Vortech in most cases will make alot more peak HP and more power in the area under the curve where it matters most in a straightline race, ~6500 - Redline.
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08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi

Last edited by DLSJ5; 09-09-2012 at 11:16 AM.
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      09-09-2012, 11:40 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Agreed, it's wacko land in here at times. If you compare equal peak output, not boost, for the most part the HKS will make more TQ and have more power under the curve, who does that though when they compare or rate kits? If you compare boost, which most people should do, then the Vortech in most cases will make alot more peak HP and more power in the area under the curve where it matters most in a straightline race, ~6500 - Redline.
You have to admit that the way Akash pulled on LM was impressive...but i figured out why. They both started in 3rd gear between 40 and 50 mph. At this low RPM, Akash has a much larger boost advantage, since it appears the AA blower makes a little more in the mid range, coupled with the fact that Akash runs quite a bit more boost than LM at all levels. Combine all that together and you can see why the pull is so dramatic the moment it begins. Now...start the run in 2nd gear at 45 mph and I will bet $$$$ that Akash can't pull like that on LM.
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      09-09-2012, 12:31 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
You're right, -700 vs. -1600, my apologies, regardless had he ran that day when you did, he'd widened the gap which was my point, there is no refuting that since your car did 1-2 mph better than a non intercooled, VT535 kit.

Where did I say peak HP? I'm talking about the area under the curve as well, from 6500-8400rpm, is that not the area under the curve on this motor where you are most of the time in a straightline race? You and Andrew need to get over it, the Vortech is a better blower for the S65, more so in the first dyno flip posted, the 2nd dyno not so much, but with Meth, meaning apples to apples, different story in any dyno to date as well as trap speed results and 60-130 data. There's only a few AA dyno's to even source, there are an abudunce of ESS dyno's and the VT535 - 625 have all made 500+, VT625's have made near 600whp, and a VT650, 600whp.

Lol, one oversight and I need to stop posting false information, hyperbole much AK? You excel in that area, whether it's you claiming I said the DCT has an advantage of 10MPH, when I didn't, whether it's making excuses about not running another car besides LM, cause you never have in over a year, or claiming you ran a 6 second 60-130, but for some reason you don't feel the need to post the results, where you whined about me adding a list in order of trap speeds to the 1/4 mile sticky because you think it makes ESS look better, do you have a problem with facts? Then there's more excuses about meth issues, bald tires, broken belts, there's always something wrong, even when you win or do well, or whether you bash this forum when you post on another. It's the same story with you, constant excuses and misleading uninformed comments. What you need to do is man up and stop worrying about what the other guy does, or exaggerate when you believe you are catching someone in a lie, or as if everyone with a different setup than you has a motive, stop acting like a little child.
When have i ever posted false information..I don't need to post glory numbers my car does what it does i am not hiding it.I have only shown what my car has done in different conditions. Area under the curve does matter because if you think for a split second at 8300 your 600 hp matters it doesn't it s the power between 4000-8300 does. I never claimed a 6 second pass please point show me where i said that. So far you have lied about stuff and i caught you. Please show me where i did? you can't because i am not a vendor agent like yourself.
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      09-09-2012, 12:34 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
You have to admit that the way Akash pulled on LM was impressive...but i figured out why. They both started in 3rd gear between 40 and 50 mph. At this low RPM, Akash has a much larger boost advantage, since it appears the AA blower makes a little more in the mid range, coupled with the fact that Akash runs quite a bit more boost than LM at all levels. Combine all that together and you can see why the pull is so dramatic the moment it begins. Now...start the run in 2nd gear at 45 mph and I will bet $$$$ that Akash can't pull like that on LM.
I already did, he destroyed LM, something I don't mind seeing. I've always given AK props about his car, for the power he makes his car moves well, he has given me props about my car as well, that wasn't my point about him. I think you make some valid assertions about starting in 3rd gear, but even if they started where they should have at those speeds, 2nd gear, AK's car makes more power, and he still would have pulled, albiet probably not by as much, but the nonsense about boost and how it doesn't matter, when you compare the kits both runing meth, same boost, it's not even remotely close. Why did LM start in 3rd gear? Horrible place to start at that speed, also AK said intially that he wasn't sure what gear he started in, and still isn't sure, lmao, that's the thing with him, you never know, here's what he said on another forum.

Quote:
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I pretty sure i was in 3rd because first run we were around the 50-60 region and the 2nd run i think in the 40-55 but i could be wrong. I stink at listening to the honks and going so i was more worried about that lol.
You don't know what gear you're in? There you go again.
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ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
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      09-09-2012, 12:40 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
I already did, he destroyed LM, something I don't mind seeing. I've always given AK props about his car, for the power he makes his car moves well, he has given me props about my car as well, that wasn't my point about him. I think you make some valid assertions about starting in 3rd gear, but even if they started where they should have at those speeds, 2nd gear, AK's car makes more power, and he still would have pulled, albiet probably not by as much, but the nonsense about boost and how it doesn't matter, when you compare the kits both runing meth, same boost, it's not even remotely close. Why did LM start in 3rd gear? Horrible place to start at that speed, also AK said intially that he wasn't sure what gear he started in, and still isn't sure, lmao, that's the thing with him, you never know, here's what he said on another forum.



You don't know what gear you're in? There you go again.

yea i don't its fact but if you watch the video its pretty clear its not 2nd.


I have never seen so many excuse from a group of people oh the car is down on power he should have raced in 2nd. A race is a race doesn't matter about other factors because it affects both cars and we were in the same gear all that matter.
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      09-09-2012, 12:44 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Agreed and I never thoght you had any ill intentions, but AA also offers a Stage 2 without Meth, you just have to run 93 octane, same as the VT625 and now many are running Meth with their ESS kits. Meth does add power and I think it should be taken into account. Otherwise I had no problem whatsoever with your comparsion, I always enjoy your posts and what you offer here.
I didn't realize that AA gives the option of not having to run meth when in 93 OCT.

I appreciate the mutual respect! I have learned quite a bit from your countless threads and posts. Very informative which is what this forum is always in constant need of. Your videos are always a blast to watch as well when destroy other beastly cars, haha.

On another completely different note. The topic of "apples to apples" comparison was brought up. I definitely understand everyone's standing on using boost or usage of meth use as a control. I think another way to look at is simply just comparing what every respective company offers in standard form of their kits, regardless of what boost is used, whether meth is used, regardless of supercharger used, or form of cooling. I think another way to look at comparison is comparing how every kit compares straight out of the factory with no extra modifications.

Meaning:

I would love to see a standard VT2-625 vs AA Stage 2 (with meth since it comes with it) vs VFE 620. All three kits rated at roughly 625hp regardless of methodology. To add to the control. Every car can start in the same gear, same speed, same RPM, then pull from there.

I see that as a better apples-to-apples comparison simply because that is what is readily offered and advertised to the public. Then of course the arguments of certain kits requiring this or that to achieve given results can be made.

Hopefully I explained that some what clearly...haha...

Anyways, great discussion in this thread.
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      09-09-2012, 12:56 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
You are correct.

Boost is boost, measured at the manifold it does not matter if it got there by a vortech blower, hks blower or hamster wheel. Not sure why anyone would think or believe different.

There are many things that affect the boost pressure measured in an engine. The differences inboost pressure could be caused by many differences in the supercharger kit setups.

If you notice the cars will read a higher boost level when the air is colder in the intake. Manifold design, intercooler design, methanol injection, compressor cover size/flow and cam timing can all affect the way boost pressure is made. If you dial out some overlap from the cams you can get the car to register almost 2 more lbs of boost. Does it make power? No, it loses power, but it's higher boost. Boost doesn't matter, flow matters.

Boost levels cannot accurately be compared between two very different systems and blowers.



If anyone in the Miami area would like to come down to the shop and feel how capable a fast spooling low and midrange m3 is in 95% of your driving situations. Let me know.
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      09-09-2012, 01:05 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akh23456 View Post
When have i ever posted false information..I don't need to post glory numbers my car does what it does i am not hiding it.I have only shown what my car has done in different conditions. Area under the curve does matter because if you think for a split second at 8300 your 600 hp matters it doesn't it s the power between 4000-8300 does. I never claimed a 6 second pass please point show me where i said that. So far you have lied about stuff and i caught you. Please show me where i did? you can't because i am not a vendor agent like yourself.
I was incorrect on his exact DA, and you got me man, I deliberately tried to lie about it, even though it's in the fvcking list that I made, you don't get it, instead you'll cloud the facts by playing the "lie" card, the point is still crystal clear and factual and not misleading, you're splitting hairs again, the fact is he would have widened the trap speed results more if he ran the same day you did. It's not so much that you post false information, you just are full of BS excuses. The only time 4000 -6500 rpm matters is from a dig or if you start in the wrong gear in a roll race, show me where 4000 - 6500 RPM comes into play when you race from a roll based on this 1/4 mile vid.



A vendor agent, that's all you got? lmao, you are full of conspiracy theories like your buddies, it's laughable the nonsense you spew. Here's your 6 second claim, as well as another conspiracy theory on how people manipulate data for their own cause,

Quote:
Originally Posted by akh23456 View Post
i got some 60-130 times but will not post online. I am in the low sevens right now from the summer time with a 1% incline in 80 degrees. I'll have some cooler runs shortly and should be in the 6 second region. if you want any other info just pm me. There are people on the forum that manipulate data for their own cause.
FYI it's not possible to manipulate vbox files, of course in a follow up post you said you weren't referring to Vbox files, lmao, saying you ran a low 7 in 80 degress but won't post it, apparantly you never went out and hit 6's when the weather got cooler, very disingenuous.
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08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi

Last edited by DLSJ5; 09-09-2012 at 01:15 PM.
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      09-09-2012, 01:15 PM   #107
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I was incorrect on his exact DA, and you got me man, I deliberately tried to lie about it, even though it's in the fvcking list that I made, you don't get it, instead you'll cloud the facts by playing the "lie" card, the point is still crystal clear and factual and not misleading, you're splitting hairs again, the fact is he would have widened the trap speed results more if he ran the same day you did. It's not so much that you post false information, you just are full of BS excuses. The only time 4000 -6500 rpm matters is from a dig or if you start in the wrong gear in a roll race, show me where 4000 - 6500 RPM comes into play when you race from a roll based on this 1/4 mile vid.



A vendor againt, lmao, you are full of conspiracy theories like your buddies, it's laughable the nonsense you spew. Here's your 6 second claim, as well as your conspiracy theory on how people manipulate data for their own cause,



FYI it's not possible to manipulate vbox files, of course in a follow up post you said you weren't referring to Vbox files, lmao, saying you ran a low 7 in 80 degress but won't post it, apparantly you never went out and did it, very disingenuous.
You did lie because it was a ESS car. If i ran it you would have said negative da is because he reached it. Ricks car is a beast its sad that his car is at BMW right now for the noise he got after being SCed. I did run it 7 and change and i wont post it because your fanboys and you always have something to say about ANY KIT. ( Dont you remember when the Vf kit ran a sick 6-130) I learned from my first dyno i am not a idiot to post shit again and get knocked around. For rolling races it matter because you are around the 4-6 K range and only hit 8300 for a split second don't you get it. you have done alot of rolling races i would assume you would know by now i guess not. MID range power is going to win not 8100-8300.
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      09-09-2012, 01:24 PM   #108
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yea i don't its fact but if you watch the video its pretty clear its not 2nd.


I have never seen so many excuse from a group of people oh the car is down on power he should have raced in 2nd. A race is a race doesn't matter about other factors because it affects both cars and we were in the same gear all that matter.
The point is how could you not know for sure? Why would you not post your Vbox results if you ran a great time? Look calling someone an intentional liar is a big deal, I would never deliberately lie about data, if I made a mistake on a number that cleary changes the context of what I said that's one thing, but the point is still clear and it doesn't change anything, my apologies if the numbers are not exact, but please do not infer that I lie a lot or use that to try and debunk my points.
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      09-09-2012, 01:31 PM   #109
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You did lie because it was a ESS car. If i ran it you would have said negative da is because he reached it. Ricks car is a beast its sad that his car is at BMW right now for the noise he got after being SCed. I did run it 7 and change and i wont post it because your fanboys and you always have something to say about ANY KIT. ( Dont you remember when the Vf kit ran a sick 6-130) I learned from my first dyno i am not a idiot to post shit again and get knocked around. For rolling races it matter because you are around the 4-6 K range and only hit 8300 for a split second don't you get it. you have done alot of rolling races i would assume you would know by now i guess not. MID range power is going to win not 8100-8300.
So you're saying I deliberately lied about the DA? Even though it's posted for everyone to see in that sticky? You're reaching AK, like you always do, I'll let people judge that one on their own, I could care less what you think. Bringing up Ricky's situation in this thread is a low blow, but it's the kind of shit you and your buddies wallow in. AK, AGAIN, where in a roll on race does 4000-6000rpm ever come into play, unless you run from a dig or start in the wrong gear at the hit? I said form 6500-8400 not just 8300 rpm or 8100 rpm in your case, WTF is a matter with you?

Look at the tach in the vid I posted, when Ricky shifts where is the next RPM range after each shift?
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ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
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      09-09-2012, 01:33 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
The point is how could you not know for sure? Why would you not post your Vbox results if you ran a great time? Look calling someone an intentional liar is a big deal, I would never deliberately lie about data, if I made a mistake on a number that cleary changes the context of what I said that's one thing, but the point is still clear and it doesn't change anything, my apologies if the numbers are not exact, but please do not infer that I lie a lot or use that to try and debunk my points.
Because i don't normally street race Drew. i am more worried about the honks that anything else which you failed to copy. I never bragged about the win and i didn't even post this thread if you see mine it say A quick run in with another M. If i wanted to brag don't i think i would has said AA VS ESS kit and AA wins.

If you were wrong by mistake it happens man but u know and i know i havn't lied about anything yet. Pretty simple.
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