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      07-23-2007, 07:28 AM   #1
RussianM3_dude
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Improving the M3? Bring the Sport Pack ASAP!!!

The E46 sport pack had sharpened steering and beefed up brakes the only two things everybody is dissapointed about in the e92. No need to hurry up and bring a 100K CSL, just bring the sport pack and all will be cool, no?
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      07-23-2007, 08:14 AM   #2
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M3s have always had the best (or one of the best) stoping power, I don't see why you would won't to change this. Especially that early! I don't even want to comment on the handling... dude it's BMW, it's what's all about!
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      07-23-2007, 09:06 AM   #3
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And some reports have called the brakes and handling(well steering actually) into question.
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      07-23-2007, 01:36 PM   #4
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M3s have always had the best (or one of the best) stoping power, I don't see why you would won't to change this. Especially that early! I don't even want to comment on the handling... dude it's BMW, it's what's all about!
You're joking, right?!
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      07-23-2007, 01:51 PM   #5
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This steering and brake BS is getting old. Just wait and drive it yourself...

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      07-23-2007, 02:03 PM   #6
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Why are all these RS4 forum members (you know who you are) so concerned with the new M3?

I mean why bother caring at all about it unless you are unhappy with your current RS4?..........

And if that is the case why not just wait for the new RS5 or next gen RS4 in 2009?
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      07-23-2007, 03:21 PM   #7
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I am unhappy with my RS4 and loved my old E46 M3.
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      07-23-2007, 04:26 PM   #8
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You're joking, right?!
Why should I be. When the facts speak even the gods listen. This is not simply my personal opinion after all.

Anyway believe all you want. I've read reviews about McLaren F1 having bad brakes and not handling properly enought, too. Do you believe that as well.....it's everybody's personal choice.
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      07-23-2007, 04:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
I am unhappy with my RS4 and loved my old E46 M3.
You aren't the same russian dude who use to own a E46 m3 site right? I think it was white russian .... something

Also, has anyone owned a 330ci ZCP and a e46 m3 before? How does the two compare in terms of handling?
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      07-23-2007, 05:57 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
This steering and brake BS is getting old. Just wait and drive it yourself...

Jason
Jason , whats that saying about great minds thinking alike? EVERYBODY calm down and drive the car first. Besides if history tells us anything, BMW will make small steady gains over a period of time after the car is out. The E46 M3 is a shining example. You didn't see huge horsepower gains or tweaks through its whole life span, but I don't remember a whole lot of complaints.But hey , what do I know
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      07-23-2007, 09:30 PM   #11
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Jason , whats that saying about great minds thinking alike?

what's that they say about self-aggrandizing? oh yeah... don't do it.
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      07-24-2007, 03:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbo View Post
You aren't the same russian dude who use to own a E46 m3 site right? I think it was white russian .... something

Also, has anyone owned a 330ci ZCP and a e46 m3 before? How does the two compare in terms of handling?
No, not me.
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      07-24-2007, 10:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
The E46 sport pack had sharpened steering and beefed up brakes the only two things everybody is dissapointed about in the e92. No need to hurry up and bring a 100K CSL, just bring the sport pack and all will be cool, no?
Are you talking about the option that was known as "ZCP" here in the states?

That included:
- larger front brakes 12.8 vs. 13.6 on base M3.
- more direct steering ratio 14.5:1 vs. 15.4:1 on base M3

I wonder how those specs compare to the E92?
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      07-24-2007, 09:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Are you talking about the option that was known as "ZCP" here in the states?

That included:
- larger front brakes 12.8 vs. 13.6 on base M3.
- more direct steering ratio 14.5:1 vs. 15.4:1 on base M3

I wonder how those specs compare to the E92?
The E92 has bigger brakes and a more direct steering ratio than the E46 M3 ZCP
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      07-24-2007, 09:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
The E92 has bigger brakes and a more direct steering ratio than the E46 M3 ZCP
What is the steering ratio on the E92 M3?
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      07-24-2007, 09:46 PM   #16
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What is the steering ratio on the E92 M3?
I forget where I saw it, but I believe it's 12.5:1 or close to that.
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      07-24-2007, 09:50 PM   #17
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Here it is:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=904763

http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/E...new_BMW_M3.pdf
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      07-24-2007, 09:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
I forget where I saw it, but I believe it's 12.5:1 or close to that.
And it is a direct mechanical linkage, right? I wish these reviews articulated what they meant by lack of feeling at dead center. I can guess what that means, but I want to know what they think is causing it. Tolerances? Gear ratio? Suspension geometry? Tires? Response time in the power assist mechanism? I don't know, anything that is more concrete than this vague observation that they all keep on making...
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      07-24-2007, 10:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
And it is a direct mechanical linkage, right? I wish these reviews articulated what they meant by lack of feeling at dead center. I can guess what that means, but I want to know what they think is causing it. Tolerances? Gear ratio? Suspension geometry? Tires? Response time in the power assist mechanism? I don't know, anything that is more concrete than this vague observation that they all keep on making...
Good question. The way I see it without actually driving it is that the steering wheel just feels loose in your hands. Less resistance(feedback) than we were used to in the E46. I've heard/read that the steering is actually very precise. The car goes where steer it, but it just feels loose in your grip. At least, that's how I imagine what they're saying.
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      07-24-2007, 10:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
Good question. The way I see it without actually driving it is that the steering wheel just feels loose in your hands. Less resistance(feedback) than we were used to in the E46. I've heard/read that the steering is actually very precise. The car goes where steer it, but it just feels loose in your grip. At least, that's how I imagine what they're saying.
My take is that you get very little feedback from the wheel when it is centered, or very close to center, and that the problem goes away once you start steering (rotating the wheel) past a certain point. And I have no idea where that point might be exactly. Is it 5 degrees, 10 degrees? I think the EVO article mentioned something about 1 degree, but I'd have to go back and re-read it. A single degree is not a whole lot by the way.
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      07-24-2007, 10:14 PM   #21
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Right....kinda what I was trying to say, but didn't do a very good job.

:thumbs up
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      07-24-2007, 10:27 PM   #22
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Thanks for the references.

This is interesting. If the steering ratio is that low, one would expect a pretty sensitive steering response, and we can rule out gear ratio from the list of potential issues I mentioned earlier. So, the question remains: what the hell is the problem?
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