BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-23-2007, 07:28 AM   #1
RussianM3_dude
Private First Class
2
Rep
172
Posts

 
Drives: B7 Audi RS4
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Switzerland

iTrader: (0)

Improving the M3? Bring the Sport Pack ASAP!!!

The E46 sport pack had sharpened steering and beefed up brakes the only two things everybody is dissapointed about in the e92. No need to hurry up and bring a 100K CSL, just bring the sport pack and all will be cool, no?
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2007, 08:14 AM   #2
thepest
Private First Class
4
Rep
116
Posts

 
Drives: BMW M3 (in my mind)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

M3s have always had the best (or one of the best) stoping power, I don't see why you would won't to change this. Especially that early! I don't even want to comment on the handling... dude it's BMW, it's what's all about!
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2007, 09:06 AM   #3
The CSL
For the love of ///M3
The CSL's Avatar
United Kingdom
7
Rep
660
Posts

 
Drives: Peugeot 306 XSI 16v
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Plymouth, UK

iTrader: (0)

And some reports have called the brakes and handling(well steering actually) into question.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2007, 01:36 PM   #4
TuvaD
New Member
0
Rep
10
Posts

 
Drives: M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepest View Post
M3s have always had the best (or one of the best) stoping power, I don't see why you would won't to change this. Especially that early! I don't even want to comment on the handling... dude it's BMW, it's what's all about!
You're joking, right?!
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2007, 01:51 PM   #5
JEllis
Brigadier General
JEllis's Avatar
84
Rep
4,780
Posts

 
Drives: E36 M3, E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SD CA/Yuma

iTrader: (4)

This steering and brake BS is getting old. Just wait and drive it yourself...

Jason
__________________
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic14547_7.gif
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2007, 02:03 PM   #6
MI6
The World is Not Enough
MI6's Avatar
United_States
64
Rep
1,061
Posts

 
Drives: Aston DBS-R
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Skyfall

iTrader: (0)

Why are all these RS4 forum members (you know who you are) so concerned with the new M3?

I mean why bother caring at all about it unless you are unhappy with your current RS4?..........

And if that is the case why not just wait for the new RS5 or next gen RS4 in 2009?
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2007, 03:21 PM   #7
RussianM3_dude
Private First Class
2
Rep
172
Posts

 
Drives: B7 Audi RS4
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Switzerland

iTrader: (0)

I am unhappy with my RS4 and loved my old E46 M3.
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2007, 04:26 PM   #8
thepest
Private First Class
4
Rep
116
Posts

 
Drives: BMW M3 (in my mind)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuvaD View Post
You're joking, right?!
Why should I be. When the facts speak even the gods listen. This is not simply my personal opinion after all.

Anyway believe all you want. I've read reviews about McLaren F1 having bad brakes and not handling properly enought, too. Do you believe that as well.....it's everybody's personal choice.
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2007, 04:32 PM   #9
Robert
Major General
116
Rep
6,902
Posts

 
Drives: 135i, current is350
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Socal

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
I am unhappy with my RS4 and loved my old E46 M3.
You aren't the same russian dude who use to own a E46 m3 site right? I think it was white russian .... something

Also, has anyone owned a 330ci ZCP and a e46 m3 before? How does the two compare in terms of handling?
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2007, 05:57 PM   #10
Reznick
First Lieutenant
Reznick's Avatar
United_States
5
Rep
386
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 M3 ,2000 330
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Syracuse NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
This steering and brake BS is getting old. Just wait and drive it yourself...

Jason
Jason , whats that saying about great minds thinking alike? EVERYBODY calm down and drive the car first. Besides if history tells us anything, BMW will make small steady gains over a period of time after the car is out. The E46 M3 is a shining example. You didn't see huge horsepower gains or tweaks through its whole life span, but I don't remember a whole lot of complaints.But hey , what do I know
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2007, 09:30 PM   #11
esquire
Colonel
esquire's Avatar
United_States
57
Rep
2,801
Posts

 
Drives: 2011.5 Dakar Yellow M3 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orange County, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznick View Post
Jason , whats that saying about great minds thinking alike?

what's that they say about self-aggrandizing? oh yeah... don't do it.
__________________

[ESS VT2-625] [Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust] [KW Clubsports] [OSS Angel Eyes] [Revinora r-CRT Lip]
[Vorsteiner Boot] [Challenge Race Diffuser] [See the Build Thread HERE]
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2007, 03:20 AM   #12
RussianM3_dude
Private First Class
2
Rep
172
Posts

 
Drives: B7 Audi RS4
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Switzerland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbo View Post
You aren't the same russian dude who use to own a E46 m3 site right? I think it was white russian .... something

Also, has anyone owned a 330ci ZCP and a e46 m3 before? How does the two compare in terms of handling?
No, not me.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2007, 10:27 AM   #13
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
183
Rep
13,831
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
The E46 sport pack had sharpened steering and beefed up brakes the only two things everybody is dissapointed about in the e92. No need to hurry up and bring a 100K CSL, just bring the sport pack and all will be cool, no?
Are you talking about the option that was known as "ZCP" here in the states?

That included:
- larger front brakes 12.8 vs. 13.6 on base M3.
- more direct steering ratio 14.5:1 vs. 15.4:1 on base M3

I wonder how those specs compare to the E92?
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2007, 09:12 PM   #14
M3onTwomps
First Lieutenant
Iraq
3
Rep
319
Posts

 
Drives: '02 E46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Sandbox

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Are you talking about the option that was known as "ZCP" here in the states?

That included:
- larger front brakes 12.8 vs. 13.6 on base M3.
- more direct steering ratio 14.5:1 vs. 15.4:1 on base M3

I wonder how those specs compare to the E92?
The E92 has bigger brakes and a more direct steering ratio than the E46 M3 ZCP
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2007, 09:41 PM   #15
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
116
Rep
8,034
Posts

 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
The E92 has bigger brakes and a more direct steering ratio than the E46 M3 ZCP
What is the steering ratio on the E92 M3?
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2007, 09:46 PM   #16
M3onTwomps
First Lieutenant
Iraq
3
Rep
319
Posts

 
Drives: '02 E46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Sandbox

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
What is the steering ratio on the E92 M3?
I forget where I saw it, but I believe it's 12.5:1 or close to that.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2007, 09:50 PM   #17
M3onTwomps
First Lieutenant
Iraq
3
Rep
319
Posts

 
Drives: '02 E46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Sandbox

iTrader: (0)

Here it is:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=904763

http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/E...new_BMW_M3.pdf
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2007, 09:55 PM   #18
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
116
Rep
8,034
Posts

 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
I forget where I saw it, but I believe it's 12.5:1 or close to that.
And it is a direct mechanical linkage, right? I wish these reviews articulated what they meant by lack of feeling at dead center. I can guess what that means, but I want to know what they think is causing it. Tolerances? Gear ratio? Suspension geometry? Tires? Response time in the power assist mechanism? I don't know, anything that is more concrete than this vague observation that they all keep on making...
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2007, 10:03 PM   #19
M3onTwomps
First Lieutenant
Iraq
3
Rep
319
Posts

 
Drives: '02 E46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Sandbox

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
And it is a direct mechanical linkage, right? I wish these reviews articulated what they meant by lack of feeling at dead center. I can guess what that means, but I want to know what they think is causing it. Tolerances? Gear ratio? Suspension geometry? Tires? Response time in the power assist mechanism? I don't know, anything that is more concrete than this vague observation that they all keep on making...
Good question. The way I see it without actually driving it is that the steering wheel just feels loose in your hands. Less resistance(feedback) than we were used to in the E46. I've heard/read that the steering is actually very precise. The car goes where steer it, but it just feels loose in your grip. At least, that's how I imagine what they're saying.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2007, 10:08 PM   #20
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
116
Rep
8,034
Posts

 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
Good question. The way I see it without actually driving it is that the steering wheel just feels loose in your hands. Less resistance(feedback) than we were used to in the E46. I've heard/read that the steering is actually very precise. The car goes where steer it, but it just feels loose in your grip. At least, that's how I imagine what they're saying.
My take is that you get very little feedback from the wheel when it is centered, or very close to center, and that the problem goes away once you start steering (rotating the wheel) past a certain point. And I have no idea where that point might be exactly. Is it 5 degrees, 10 degrees? I think the EVO article mentioned something about 1 degree, but I'd have to go back and re-read it. A single degree is not a whole lot by the way.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2007, 10:14 PM   #21
M3onTwomps
First Lieutenant
Iraq
3
Rep
319
Posts

 
Drives: '02 E46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Sandbox

iTrader: (0)

Right....kinda what I was trying to say, but didn't do a very good job.

:thumbs up
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2007, 10:27 PM   #22
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
116
Rep
8,034
Posts

 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the references.

This is interesting. If the steering ratio is that low, one would expect a pretty sensitive steering response, and we can rule out gear ratio from the list of potential issues I mentioned earlier. So, the question remains: what the hell is the problem?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:32 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST