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      11-30-2016, 12:10 AM   #1
shakywarrior
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E85 M3 Advanced Fuel Dynamics

So I was put on to this company by a friend I know. He has a VF 650 M3 and told me he'd be able to use E85 soon. Apparently Advanced Fuel Dynamics has come up with a kind of PROFlex Kit. How it works is it tells the injectors in real time how much fuel to use in each pulse (something like that). A STOCK M3 made 52whp over stock with 72% E85 and no other mods... Seems crazy.

I exchanged emails with AFD and was told the system will work with my current tune... but my tune is 93 specific. I'm not sure how dialed in the cars ECU is for 93 and am wondering if the ECU can adjust for E85.

My buddy will be taking his car there for the kit on Dec 2nd so I will have more info then. Just thought I'd see some of your guys thoughts.

advancedfueldynamics.com is the site and they do have Instagram so look them up.
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      11-30-2016, 01:16 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakywarrior View Post
So I was put on to this company by a friend I know. He has a VF 650 M3 and told me he'd be able to use E85 soon. Apparently Advanced Fuel Dynamics has come up with a kind of PROFlex Kit. How it works is it tells the injectors in real time how much fuel to use in each pulse (something like that). A STOCK M3 made 52whp over stock with 72% E85 and no other mods... Seems crazy.

I exchanged emails with AFD and was told the system will work with my current tune... but my tune is 93 specific. I'm not sure how dialed in the cars ECU is for 93 and am wondering if the ECU can adjust for E85.

My buddy will be taking his car there for the kit on Dec 2nd so I will have more info then. Just thought I'd see some of your guys thoughts.

advancedfueldynamics.com is the site and they do have Instagram so look them up.
What does the kit include and how much? I'm sad none of the tuners have stepped up to the e85 market.
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      11-30-2016, 08:53 AM   #3
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Nice,I must get one those for my car?!
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      11-30-2016, 09:13 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrón View Post
What does the kit include and how much? I'm sad none of the tuners have stepped up to the e85 market.
Not sure what it includes just some type of flex fuel kit.i was quoted $1200.
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      11-30-2016, 10:41 AM   #5
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Sounds great -- like a flex fuel system? Not sure about the 52 rwhp over stock claim -- you don't get that from just an octane improvement. You might get somewhere close from a software update, a tune with more timing for more octane, and a cat delete. A lot also depends on the baseline -- some S65 have baseline dyno'd at around 320 rwhp SAE on 91 octane, and it should not be hard to make a dramatic improvement on such a car.
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      11-30-2016, 10:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Sounds great -- like a flex fuel system? Not sure about the 52 rwhp over stock claim -- you don't get that from just an octane improvement. You might get somewhere close from a software update, a tune with more timing for more octane, and a cat delete. A lot also depends on the baseline -- some S65 have baseline dyno'd at around 320 rwhp SAE on 91 octane, and it should not be hard to make a dramatic improvement on such a car.
Yeah I was told every car will not gain that much but more around 15-30. And an extra 30 hp would really put my car over the hump..
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      11-30-2016, 12:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakywarrior View Post
Not sure what it includes just some type of flex fuel kit.i was quoted $1200.
Thanks for the info, I hope in pans out.
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      11-30-2016, 12:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakywarrior View Post
Yeah I was told every car will not gain that much but more around 15-30. And an extra 30 hp would really put my car over the hump..
Id put the gain at more like 15. How much more timing can you add? A couple of people have 100 octane or meth tunes and use 37 degrees (I have been running a meth tune for 3 years). But every bit helps. Might be great on a supercharged car since it would allow both more timing and more boost. But that would require an injector change and maybe more fuel pump capacity.
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      11-30-2016, 04:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Id put the gain at more like 15. How much more timing can you add? A couple of people have 100 octane or meth tunes and use 37 degrees (I have been running a meth tune for 3 years). But every bit helps. Might be great on a supercharged car since it would allow both more timing and more boost. But that would require an injector change and maybe more fuel pump capacity.
From what my buddy told me, there is no change to the fuel system. Just the sensors to communicate how much fuel to inject. But I'm not 100% sure. I'll have more info after he gets it installed on the 2nd so a few days.
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      11-30-2016, 04:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakywarrior View Post
From what my buddy told me, there is no change to the fuel system. Just the sensors to communicate how much fuel to inject. But I'm not 100% sure. I'll have more info after he gets it installed on the 2nd so a few days.
This was done a long time ago on the N54 engine platform. The way they used it was the sensors were able to determine the amount of E85 present in the fuel so it would know example full E85, a 50/50 mix etc. The sensors would relay this info to a piggyback system, based on the content it would determine fuel delivery, timing, and boost.

This sounds like a great start but without something controlling the timing and spark you're going to pick very little extra horsepower.
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      11-30-2016, 05:19 PM   #11
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My guess is it would be a piggyback that adjusts fuel injector pulse and ignition timing based on flex fuel sensor. The Vishnu Procede piggyback for meth injection on these cars uses injector duty cycle to flow meth and lean the fuel and increase timing, so I don't see why the E85 piggyback controller would not be possible.

The fuel system might need changing only on a forced induction car -- the injectors need to be bigger to handle the roughly 1/3 more volume that E85 requires. On a NA car, the stock injectors might be already be oversized by 1/3 and thus have the capacity -- I don't know. Same potential issue with the fuel pump, which will reach capacity on a forced induction car much sooner with E85.
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      11-30-2016, 05:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
My guess is it would be a piggyback that adjusts fuel injector pulse and ignition timing based on flex fuel sensor. The Vishnu Procede piggyback for meth injection on these cars uses injector duty cycle to flow meth and lean the fuel and increase timing, so I don't see why the E85 piggyback controller would not be possible.

The fuel system might need changing only on a forced induction car -- the injectors need to be bigger to handle the roughly 1/3 more volume that E85 requires. On a NA car, the stock injectors might be already be oversized by 1/3 and thus have the capacity -- I don't know. Same potential issue with the fuel pump, which will reach capacity on a forced induction car much sooner with E85.
True that! Hopefully it's something very similar otherwise I don't see it being very useful. Our cars can already accommodate for a fair percentage of E85 due to being target based. This is true even on supercharged cars. Example the guys with the ESS 650 kits running 2.5 gallons on E85 and the rest 91 for a safe mix that performs even better than race gas.
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      11-30-2016, 05:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Id put the gain at more like 15. How much more timing can you add? A couple of people have 100 octane or meth tunes and use 37 degrees (I have been running a meth tune for 3 years). But every bit helps. Might be great on a supercharged car since it would allow both more timing and more boost. But that would require an injector change and maybe more fuel pump capacity.
What meth kit do you run?
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      11-30-2016, 07:03 PM   #14
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Vishnu Procede.
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      12-03-2016, 04:26 PM   #15
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UPDATE: Got the results from my friend. E92 M3 VF Stage 4 picked up 51 hp to the wheels with the kit installed @ 60% ethonal and peak hp number was 576. No tuning done.
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      12-03-2016, 05:10 PM   #16
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I will order as soon as I can
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      12-03-2016, 05:28 PM   #17
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I will order as soon as I can
Thank you
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      12-03-2016, 06:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakywarrior View Post
UPDATE: Got the results from my friend. E92 M3 VF Stage 4 picked up 51 hp to the wheels with the kit installed @ 60% ethonal and peak hp number was 576. No tuning done.
Do you know what dyno was used?

Did he look into wiring up a Zeitronix flex fuel kit, pluming it up and A E85 tune done from VF.
For probably not a lot more

I did a flex fuel system couple years ago, for E24 tune on a low reading Mustang dyno. Gain was 27ftlbs and 50 whp
A dyno pull was fine, was the 1/4 mile that gave me the fuel pump malfunction warning

Last edited by Cidle; 12-07-2016 at 12:26 PM. Reason: mobile spelling
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      12-03-2016, 10:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakywarrior View Post
UPDATE: Got the results from my friend. E92 M3 VF Stage 4 picked up 51 hp to the wheels with the kit installed @ 60% ethonal and peak hp number was 576. No tuning done.
Nice!
Thanks for the update!
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      12-05-2016, 04:26 PM   #20
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Dyno sheet here: http://www.advancedfueldynamics.com/dyno-data#m3
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      12-05-2016, 05:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Sounds great -- like a flex fuel system? Not sure about the 52 rwhp over stock claim --
*completely* possible....you can pick up a certain brand of headers + x-pipe and make huge gains with no tune


Back to the subject....

My, my, my Eurocharged Performance is in Round Rock....

Edit: Just talked to Adam @ Eurocharged. I'll be paying them a visit on Wed or Thursday

Said that installation will be $1k for them to do it, and that includes the dyno time to make sure the fuel system can support the E85 content by steadily increasing it.

Installation doesn't sound all that difficult, though.

http://www.advancedfueldynamics.com/product

Last edited by whats77inaname; 12-05-2016 at 05:43 PM.
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      12-05-2016, 05:39 PM   #22
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This seems great but I was under the impression that a 650 kit supercharged car was maxing out the stock fuel system on pump gas.

If so, throwing E85 into the mix will be an issue. Do those VF 650 kit numbers include an upgraded fuel system?
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