VIR Weekend with Tarheel BMWCCA 25-26 AUG 12

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by kartracer12

armyav8tor - that was some impressive driving at VIR. I was running in Group B also in AW e90M3. You got by me in Session #3 on Sunday (only car to pass me). I thought I was moving good running 2:18s until I saw that video. Tried to find you in the pits afterwards to check out your car. Do you have any video from Session #3?

I was impressed how you were pounding those curbs going up the esses. What kind of springs and suspension do you have? My car is stock except brakes/tires and was a bit unsettling hitting those curbs at 105mph going up the esses.

Session 3 on Sunday as requested.

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by adc

Wish I'd seen these videos before my event... if you don't mind I'd like to ask you a few questions about several corners. I mean your approach obviously works considering the lap times, I am just wondering about a few things trying to understand what's going on.

The line the instructor recommended at Oak tree was to compromise 11, but I never felt too comfortable with that, I should have experimented more. Thanks for your thoughts...

Did you try various approaches to 14-14a-15? I saw the standard approach of late apexing for 14 and 14a, then the line my instructor recommended of essentially driving over 14, taking 14 with the right wheels on the inside curbs all the way and now there's your line which seems a bit different.

With stock suspension, when I entered the esses at over 120mph the car could just not settle between turns, so I had to bleed speed to get back in the groove. 115 was the highest I could enter while still managing the transitions with a small margin. I wonder if going over the grey curbs allows you greater speed, or if the springs make that much difference. But that's a dangerous place to experiment perhaps, so I am not sure I'll follow in your footsteps.

Interesting observations about 4-5-5a , I think I'll try your approach to next time and see how it feels.

Thanks for posting your videos and thoughts, it's been very educational.

I can't take credit for my fast times, I have to give all of the credit to Christian Thompson, my instructor. I think him and Mike Skeen are best friends so I'm benefiting from that friendship I'm sure. The lines are all his, the more advance techniques like using the single apex at Oak Tree, trail braking all the way around 11 and then be on the gas just before 12.

As far as 14-14a, the technique is to make it one corner by basically drawing a straight line from the back straight all the way to 14a then hug 14a on the right curb for as long as you can before going into 15, thus removing 14 as a corner all together.

The climbing esses, I think it is a combination of using the FIA curbing and the Eibach springs. The important thing is to have smooth, precise inputs. Stay left a little longer than the right, especially at turn 8, which will set you up for turn 9 because you want your steering wheel straight before you hit the crest at turn 10 or that little bump up there will unsettle the car and throw you off the track if you are carrying too much speed (or so I've been told by Chris).

It also helps to have a big pair. This was the 3rd time at VIR and HPDE. I did have 75 laps at the Ring under my belt which is where I grew my balls.

[klammer]

Nice video again Looks like you were running 2:15's in the first few laps till you hit traffic the rest of the session. MDM didn't slow you that much, maybe 1 sec tops, but that's what happens when you have the right lines Learning a bunch and studying your lines, awesome video and driving, thanks again

[Purple Derple]

Thinking about this more... I wonder if you could get a little spring flick action between 4 and 5 to get the car pointed sooner and allow for full throttle sooner. I haven't tried it myself, just an idea and it seems like that's the kind of corner where it could pay off as long as you don't overdo it and scrub speed.

You also seem to be getting a lot of understeer. I really think you would benefit from more tire up front and you would see how much better the car points so you don't have to play the waiting game with the throttle in the lower esses, oak tree, roller coaster, and hog pen.

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by klammer

Nice video again Looks like you were running 2:15's in the first few laps till you hit traffic the rest of the session. MDM didn't slow you that much, maybe 1 sec tops, but that's what happens when you have the right lines Learning a bunch and studying your lines, awesome video and driving, thanks again

Can't wait to see your videos!!!!!

Originally Posted by Purple Derple

Thinking about this more... I wonder if you could get a little spring flick action between 4 and 5 to get the car pointed sooner and allow for full throttle sooner. I haven't tried it myself, just an idea and it seems like that's the kind of corner where it could pay off as long as you don't overdo it and scrub speed.

You also seem to be getting a lot of understeer. I really think you would benefit from more tire up front and you would see how much better the car points so you don't have to play the waiting game with the throttle in the lower esses, oak tree, roller coaster, and hog pen.

I can point the car pretty good with throttle application. I played around with that at turn 1 last time I was there with Trackdaze and got pretty good at it. Which is why I got into oversteer situations a little too much.

Here's with me running on Han's worn 18" PS2s. You can definitely get into understeer situations at turn 4 if you get the entry speed wrong. Did that more than a few times with TrackDaze but did a pretty good job with the AD08s this time around.


Ultimately, I want to match or beat KINGLEH's 2:08 time. I also want to do it by using street rubber. But what I really would like to do is to do it on Eibach springs, he had KW V3s and I would like nothing more than to prove to the guys on coilovers that the EDC is that bad ass. I mean, I've already proved that in a sense, a guy who's only driven in 3 HPDEs. I will say though, if KW does come out with that iphone adjustable system, I'll be all over it!!!!

So, fatter rubber is out of the question because I want to keep the car as OEM looking as possible (which is why I went with the 19" OEM ZCPs instead of the many aftermarket options). I see what you are saying but we start going down that slippery slope, before you know it, the car is going to be stripped out with rollcage. I'm just going to keep modding the driver.

If I had to break it down to 2 reasons why I'm fast, it would be good depth perception, and good control touch. I was a good driver before becoming an Apache pilot 8 yrs ago (I lived at the foot of a mountain growing up and the road to and from school is like the tail of the dragon) but being a pilot and applying that skill set has made me an even better driver. I still have a long ways to go and Chris is going to help me get there. Once I hit that plateau, I'll sign up for coaching with Mike Skeen and continue to get faster.

[Purple Derple]

Gotcha. I dig that you're trying to beat the 2:08 time with the same set-up. It is totally do-able in a stock M3 imo. Last time I was there I was doing 2:11s in a 130 hp shitbox on street tires that could only see 122mph on the back straight and VIR rewards HP big-time. When are you going back to give it another shot?

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by Purple Derple

Gotcha. I dig that you're trying to beat the 2:08 time with the same set-up. It is totally do-able in a stock M3 imo. Last time I was there I was doing 2:11s in a 130 hp shitbox on street tires that could only see 122mph on the back straight and VIR rewards HP big-time. When are you going back to give it another shot?

Hopefully sometime in October/November if work slows down. It is all work dependent really, this last weekend was tough because I didn't get to the track until past midnight on Friday night and had to be at work at 0630 Monday morning. Which lead to me doing bone head shit like leaving the wheel lock key in the wheel and driving onto the track with it (losing it). Which would not have happened if I had time to switch out the wheel locks at home. I'm going to avoid going through that again.

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by Purple Derple

Gotcha. I dig that you're trying to beat the 2:08 time with the same set-up. It is totally do-able in a stock M3 imo. Last time I was there I was doing 2:11s in a 130 hp shitbox on street tires that could only see 122mph on the back straight and VIR rewards HP big-time. When are you going back to give it another shot?

Oh and you have picture and details on this shitbox? That is a really impressive time. Please don't tell me it was a Miata...

[adc]

You could put a set of OEM ZCP rears at the front too, just sayin...

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by adc

You could put a set of OEM ZCP rears at the front too, just sayin...

Yup, I saw that, but I think it will rub like crazy if I try to put fatter rubber on it. I'm actually rubbing on the passenger liner with just 255 AD08s in front. It rubs ever so slightly when the steering wheel is turned to the right at maybe 2 turns? Where the outside edge of the tire would rub on the rear middle portion of the liner. Should have taken a picture but I was trying to figure out all weekend where that noise was coming from and finally kept the steering in, got out of the car and looked.

But before that, I was seriously thinking about getting a pair of ZCP rears and putting 275s in front. Maybe 275/30/19 will still work, either way, it will not be a square setup, which is why I'm leaning against it.

[Purple Derple]

I don't know how to post pics but it is a Mondiale Formula Ford chassis mated with a wheezy dodge neon motor. I say shitbox because the car is beat to hell and the shocks are giving up.

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by Purple Derple

I don't know how to post pics but it is a Mondiale Formula Ford chassis mated with a wheezy dodge neon motor. I say shitbox because the car is beat to hell and the shocks are giving up.

LOL, gotcha!

[Porschefile]

haha somehow I'm relieved that the "shitbox" is a formula ford racecar. I'd be a little frustrated if a neon did 2:11, rather than an all out racecar with a neon engine (that probably weighs what, 1500?).

2:08 just sounds nuts to me. I know I'll never get there without slicks and many other things. But a good goal is always good to have. I rode with Leh at VIR, and it was pretty insane, the car control and precision and lack of fear of death. I think it takes some crazy combination of skills and balls to get the car loose at 140 in the esses and be totally unphased.

[dcgolfdr]

Quick out there and the New and improved Hans comment was funny. Hopefully we can get down there for the same event next time. I was able to put down some 2:09's and 2:10's Monday and Tuesday, but that is with my cheat car, I don't know how the hell you can do that in the M3.

[Purple Derple]

I know Formula Ford is a race car and light but it isn't nearly as fast or easy to drive as an M3, which is why I think 2:08 and better is doable for non-pros. That's my point is all.

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by dcgolfdr

Quick out there and the New and improved Hans comment was funny. Hopefully we can get down there for the same event next time. I was able to put down some 2:09's and 2:10's Monday and Tuesday, but that is with my cheat car, I don't know how the hell you can do that in the M3.

Yeah, I want to do our private leap frog exercise again. That was fun, I'll try not to spin out next time. Honestly, right now, I have no idea how I'm going to get down to 2:08. I've been watching my videos religiously trying to find time here and there. I think 2:10 is definitely doable but that last 2 seconds is going to be tough. I think maybe do it on a cool day so the engine has more power. That's how I got the 2:15s back in February. If there's a will, there's a way but I might have to concede and get myself some coilovers

Hans has improved by leaps and bounds. Think he's just a hair over 2:30 now with traffic. He should have no issues in the B Group. Man that group was slow, I basically got 2 hot laps in before I ran into traffic. So much for the killer b's. There was a very quick 135i there though but he's moving to the A Group. Hopefully I can do the same.

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by Purple Derple

I know Formula Ford is a race car and light but it isn't nearly as fast or easy to drive as an M3, which is why I think 2:08 and better is doable for non-pros. That's my point is all.

You seem to be very knowledgeable so its a good sign when you say it is doable.

[Day Laborer]

Originally Posted by dcgolfdr

Quick out there and the New and improved Hans comment was funny. Hopefully we can get down there for the same event next time. I was able to put down some 2:09's and 2:10's Monday and Tuesday, but that is with my cheat car, I don't know how the hell you can do that in the M3.

I guess I must the slowest out of this group, but being there at VIR 3 times now, I have improved my average time from 2:55's - 2:40's - 2:30's (mostly with laps that have traffic)

I definitely need to enter the climbing esses at a greater speed than <100mph.

Two cars crashed in my run group around the same area.. so I was reluctant to climb the esses above 100mph.

Anyone hear from the M5 or the Focus that crashed?

[adc]

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

Yup, I saw that, but I think it will rub like crazy if I try to put fatter rubber on it. I'm actually rubbing on the passenger liner with just 255 AD08s in front. It rubs ever so slightly when the steering wheel is turned to the right at maybe 2 turns? Where the outside edge of the tire would rub on the rear middle portion of the liner. Should have taken a picture but I was trying to figure out all weekend where that noise was coming from and finally kept the steering in, got out of the car and looked.

But before that, I was seriously thinking about getting a pair of ZCP rears and putting 275s in front. Maybe 275/30/19 will still work, either way, it will not be a square setup, which is why I'm leaning against it.

I recently went from 18" stockers to 18"x10" ARC-8 rims, for now with 265/285 RS-3's (found a great deal on the forum). My next tires on these rims will be 275 or 285 all around R compounds, i think I'll like the square setup a lot.

As it stands right now, given how cheap and good these rims are, and how perfect the offset is, I will simply never look back. Keep the stocks rims with the expensive Michelins for street driving, and don't care how much I tear the track tires apart.

You're right of course, it's a slippery slope and I'm now contemplating springs, but heck you only live once (until proven otherwise ).


Speaking of mods, what pads are you using?

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by adc

I recently went from 18" stockers to 18"x10" ARC-8 rims, for now with 265/285 RS-3's (found a great deal on the forum). My next tires on these rims will be 275 or 285 all around R compounds, i think I'll like the square setup a lot.

As it stands right now, given how cheap and good these rims are, and how perfect the offset is, I will simply never look back. Keep the stocks rims with the expensive Michelins for street driving, and don't care how much I tear the track tires apart.

You're right of course, it's a slippery slope and I'm now contemplating springs, but heck you only live once (until proven otherwise ).


Speaking of mods, what pads are you using?

Gotta love the forums for great deals. Got my Akrapovic that way

Pads are PF01s in front and Stoptech Street Performance in rear. The rear brakes doesn't do anything anyway.

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by Day Laborer

Anyone hear from the M5 or the Focus that crashed?

Yeah, I heard they've been demoted back down to E Group. Sucks the Focus had to crash and cut your solo short, or was that the M5?