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      05-06-2013, 10:56 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by jcolley View Post
So, I half mis-spoke. ISTA does tell you to perform a throttle actuator test. This may be required to let the DME "learn" the new actuators settings. You can also perform this with DIS. If you don't have a copy, bmtechnic.co.uk sells a nice, easy to use version with a cable for cheap. Invaluable owning this car.

Attachment 858225
Yeah I thought so too. I used to have a Nissan. It also needed a throttle relearn anytime the battery died or the actuator was disconnected. Of course the difference is that the procedure didn't require any tools at all, not like the M3 where if you just sneeze in the car a million error codes pop up and you have to go to the dealer to clear the codes and fix the car
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      05-07-2013, 05:06 AM   #90
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On the S85, the throttle actuator itself has a little more travel to its spring shut position that it can not make due to the linkage and the throttle body being fully shut. I expect this is for some margin for safety in case slop develops on the linkage. I do not know if the S65 is the same, but from the pictures, it looks like it could be. For the S85, when the throttle body is shut, the actuator linkage arm is at top dead center. Disconnect the linkage and the actuator arm will spring another 30 degrees or so.
It is the same way for the M3, or at least mine was.

Good luck with the modified part.
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      05-07-2013, 06:56 AM   #91
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How's this for progress guys?


http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...ml#post3173889
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      05-07-2013, 07:17 AM   #92
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That is awesome! That looks so cool haha, like a Swiss watch. I haven't been keeping up with this, but is it confirmed that it is indeed the plastic gear wear that's causing the TA to fail?
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      05-07-2013, 07:33 AM   #93
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Amazing dedication!

Now, how do you test it? You can test it "live" of course, but you won't know if the problem is addressed by the gear. You will only know if it is not addressed, and you won't know that until it fails again, right? I.e., maybe just putting in a new nylon gear (or whatever that stock gear is made from) would have made it go just as long without a failure too - even if it lives longer than the first one (or anyone else's for that matter). Come to think of it, has anyone tried to put a new stock gear in a failed actuator to verify that it fixes the problem too? Seems like a lot of room for false positives. A test bench would be great but, even then, time consuming to get results. Not trying to be a downer, just shooting off questions that come to mind. Apologies if these concerns were addressed already in your thread on M5Board.
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      05-07-2013, 07:33 AM   #94
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So far, it seems to be. All resistance readings are good throughout the actuator. I replaced one last month and was going to take the control board from an old one and swap it with the geartrain of a new one to be the guniea pig. In the end, I chickened out because I didn't have the time to go back in and remove it if I was wrong.

This will be the first test to know for sure.
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      05-07-2013, 07:37 AM   #95
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Amazing dedication!

Now, how do you test it? You can test it "live" of course, but you won't know if the problem is addressed by the gear unless it fails again, right? I.e., maybe just putting in a new nylon gear (or whatever that stock gear is made from) would have made it go just as long without a failure too. Come to think of it, has anyone tried to put a new stock gear in a failed actuator to verify that it fixes the problem too? Seems like a lot of room for false positives. A test bench would be great but, even then, time consuming to get results. Not trying to be a downer, just shooting off questions that come to mind.

Ha! Beat me to it...

I have a small Arduino board with a CAN data logger but haven't had time to tap the wires into the circuit board of an actuator and log the control signals. Of course, even after that's done, it would take quite a while to pick out the addressing scheme and then modify the aurduino to act as a bench test device. Too many projects, too little time...

Next time one goes, I'm hoping someone has the guts to do a parts mix with a new one. Maybe when I change rod bearings and VANOS pump in a month or so I'll tackle that too. I'll already have the car taken apart and won't have to explain to the wife why I'm doing it for fun.
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      05-07-2013, 07:50 AM   #96
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You have more patience and determination than I, so I applaud you. If there's a way to obtain just the suspect gear, I would be willing to donate my failed part to someone with a failure who is willing to install it and try it out. Unless this has already been done and proven to fix the problem (but not fix the design flaw, of course).
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      05-07-2013, 10:56 AM   #97
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if i just replace the gears with the ones from my new actuator while continuing to use the original circuit board that came with the car would that negate the need for doing the throttle reset procedure? The stealership wants me to book an appt over a month from now to reprogram the car.
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      05-07-2013, 11:20 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcolley View Post
Ha! Beat me to it...

I have a small Arduino board with a CAN data logger but haven't had time to tap the wires into the circuit board of an actuator and log the control signals. Of course, even after that's done, it would take quite a while to pick out the addressing scheme and then modify the aurduino to act as a bench test device. Too many projects, too little time...

Next time one goes, I'm hoping someone has the guts to do a parts mix with a new one. Maybe when I change rod bearings and VANOS pump in a month or so I'll tackle that too. I'll already have the car taken apart and won't have to explain to the wife why I'm doing it for fun.
Thanks again for doing this. Maybe we'll finally have a more permanent solution.

And rod bearings + VANOS pump? Uh oh, what happened?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin Buu View Post
if i just replace the gears with the ones from my new actuator while continuing to use the original circuit board that came with the car would that negate the need for doing the throttle reset procedure? The stealership wants me to book an appt over a month from now to reprogram the car.
A month? Wow.
Mkoesel managed to just drive his car and around and his CEL went away from what I can tell. I used BavTechnic to clear the CEL codes, but didn't reset the TA. That was back in July and all is well.
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      05-07-2013, 11:31 AM   #99
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Thanks again for doing this. Maybe we'll finally have a more permanent solution.

And rod bearings + VANOS pump? Uh oh, what happened?



A month? Wow.
Mkoesel managed to just drive his car and around and his CEL went away from what I can tell. I used BavTechnic to clear the CEL codes, but didn't reset the TA. That was back in July and all is well.
Would disconnecting the battery work?
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      05-07-2013, 11:37 AM   #100
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Would disconnecting the battery work?
The battery should already be disconnected when you are doing this job. But it's possible that it'll work because Mkoesel's M3 cleared the code by itself when he started the car.
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      05-07-2013, 04:27 PM   #101
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Tried disconnecting the battery and it didn't work. The error is still there. it's a new code, P1628 which has to do with the DME prerun check of the throttle valves. that's where the relearn procedure is supposed to kick in.

How the hell does the car know the actuator has been changed anyway? Aren't the parts identical or do each have some unique fingerprint? If I swap the circuit board from the original actuator along with the gears from the new actuator i bought, would that trick the car into thinking the actuator hasn't been changed? Or do I have to do the stupid relearn procedure regardless?
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      05-07-2013, 04:56 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin Buu View Post
Tried disconnecting the battery and it didn't work. The error is still there. it's a new code, P1628 which has to do with the DME prerun check of the throttle valves. that's where the relearn procedure is supposed to kick in.
That's the code I have now that is throwing limp mode.
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      05-07-2013, 05:34 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin Buu View Post
Tried disconnecting the battery and it didn't work. The error is still there. it's a new code, P1628 which has to do with the DME prerun check of the throttle valves. that's where the relearn procedure is supposed to kick in.

How the hell does the car know the actuator has been changed anyway? Aren't the parts identical or do each have some unique fingerprint? If I swap the circuit board from the original actuator along with the gears from the new actuator i bought, would that trick the car into thinking the actuator hasn't been changed? Or do I have to do the stupid relearn procedure regardless?
I don't think the car knows whether the actuator has been swapped - it only knows whether the currently installed actuator is good or not (by running the self-test).

From my own experience, I would be hesitant to recommend swapping internal parts of the actuator in an effort to get the DME to reset the codes and/or deactivate limp mode. It should not be necessary. If you've replaced the actuator and are still experiencing problems, there may be something else wrong. You had said originally that you got a used part - is that the only one you've tried? It may have been bad or gone bad somehow. Just a thought.
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      05-07-2013, 08:13 PM   #104
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Today's update:

I removed the intake manifold and as soon as i did, i found the problem. When you put the ignition in ON position, whether the engine starts or not, the car diagnoses both throttle actuators by cycling them to the fully open position and then back to closed. The driver's side bank did it fine. But the passenger side, the one I swapped, would open and then stay jammed. It wouldn't close till the ignition goes back to off again. That caused all the problems.

My original actuator would start fine, but when driving go into limp mode. It passed the initial test mentioned above.

So what I did was basically open both actuators and then I took the circuit board from my original actuator, and bolted it to the gear mechanism of the one I recently bought. I then put it back into the engine and connected everything. Happy to say the engine started fine and both actuators passed the initial checkup. I still haven't driven the car yet since it has gone dark and I haven't put the intake manifold on yet. Tomorrow I will finish assembling the car and go for a test drive and see if everything works.
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      05-07-2013, 09:53 PM   #105
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Great to hear. So it sounds like the replacement you bought must have had an electronics issue. If indeed it works tomorrow, that's a nice bit of a good fortune that you were able put the parts from the two together to make one good whole.
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      05-08-2013, 06:08 PM   #106
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Great to hear. So it sounds like the replacement you bought must have had an electronics issue. If indeed it works tomorrow, that's a nice bit of a good fortune that you were able put the parts from the two together to make one good whole.
Well there is good news and bad news. The good news is that by mating the new motor to my original circuit board, the new "frankenstein" actuator passed the prestart check. It didn't crash and stay stuck open and make the car undriveable. So that confirms the circuit board of the replacement unit I got must have been fried.

Onto the bad news. After a few min of driving, I did get the P2100 code and car went into limp mode again like it used to. After driving a few min I restarted the engine, which usually clears the error. It worked and the car drove fine to my workplace. I get off work in an hour and I'll see if the problem happens again.

That leaves me with the conclusion that either the replacement motor and gears i bought have the exact same problem as my original unit, or that the problem is actually caused by the circuit board

I may have to bite the bullet and get a new one. Fortunately Bimmerzone sells them for a bit over $900 USD. I know it's a bit more expensive than other websites but they ship to Canada. The bottomfeeding mafia scum stealerships here in Canada are asking over $1600 CAD for the actuator, over TWICE what the americans are paying!!!!
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      05-08-2013, 06:21 PM   #107
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Any updates about anything similar for the M3? I'd rather not spend $900 on a new actuator if the only problem is some stupid plastic gear that looks like it belongs in a lego set. Would those metal gears for the M5 also work with our actuators too? Both actuators look essentially identical, but they have different part numbers for the M3 and M5. I wonder if there are differences between the units, or else why would BMW give them different part numbers?
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      05-08-2013, 09:25 PM   #108
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So, I half mis-spoke. ISTA does tell you to perform a throttle actuator test. This may be required to let the DME "learn" the new actuators settings. You can also perform this with DIS. If you don't have a copy, bmtechnic.co.uk sells a nice, easy to use version with a cable for cheap. Invaluable owning this car.

Attachment 858225
Awesome....just downloaded the software. Having a copy of DIS is going to be extremely useful. Jcolley, can you list the steps to perform the test or relearn?
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      05-21-2013, 08:57 PM   #109
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*****MAJOR UPDATE******

So I received the new actuator in the mail today and proceeded to change it. I removed the plenum, but decided to test the old actuator first to see what is the actual problem. Just like last time, I had a helper turn on the ignition without starting the engine while I looked at the throttle bodies. When the car tried to test the actuators, the working driver's side began moving a couple of centimeters or so before closing again. The malfunctioning passenger side did not move at all in that period of time. That makes me think the car abandoned the testing procedure when it detected no movement in the passenger side bank. I would conclude from this that my actuator failed due to faulty electronics and not the wear on the mechanical gears. Of course the wear on the gears could be what caused the electronics to fail. I don't know. But it's something to think about before people start buying metal gears and swapping them out to fix their actuators.
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      05-30-2013, 11:39 PM   #110
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Well now my car has gone into limp home mode too.

I took everything apart so I could look at the actuators while the ignition was being cycled on and off but both sides only try to close which is not what people are saying should happen. Fully open then fully closed is what's being said in this thread as to what should be happening

I have P1628, 0638, 0112 codes

Are they both toast? At the same time?
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