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      08-13-2012, 11:10 PM   #1
Mike Benvo
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Retrofitted Start/Stop to my 2008 M3

As you guys know, the 2011 and '12 models came with the Start/Stop feature, which turns the engine off at idle to maximize fuel economy.

I personally don't like the feature, and would never use it. But it's cool to have if I'm feeling really eco-friendly. Also keep in mind that the cars equipped with this feature have a different alternator and starter.

When I retrofitted my front PDC, I had to buy all of the buttons on the bottom for the rear sunshade, front pdc, heated seats, etc.. They come together, you cant buy the buttons individually. When searching for a new set of buttons for the bottom, I came across one that had everything I needed, plus the start stop button. I figured it wasn't worth the hassle of tracking down one that didn't have that button, since this one was in mint condition. And getting it immediately would help me complete the front PDC retrofit.

The PDC retrofit was months and months ago, but recently the thought of having a dysfunctional button slightly annoyed me... So today I decided to spend some time to get the feature to work. It involved recoding five or six modules and a few tweaks to get it to work on my 08. It was really cool the first time it turned off, really took me by surprise. At first I thought something was was wrong, and then I was like "Oh.. yeah.. Start/Stop". I was on the freeway for about 30 minutes and in that time I was distracted enough by phone calls to forget that I was testing the functionality of it.

So now my button works, and I have this stupid light that's always on down there telling me the feature is off.

They should have had the light tell you that the feature is on! Yet another thing for me to figure out I guess.

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      08-13-2012, 11:21 PM   #2
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Back from the ban and saving the environment.
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      08-13-2012, 11:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longbow64 View Post
Back from the ban and saving the environment.


Always gotta do your part. But then again I don't think there is any amount of start/stop activations that can make up for the Akra evo!
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      08-14-2012, 05:43 AM   #4
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So are you getting 20 mpg in town now? How is the battery and starter wear over time? Or do we not have sufficient data to know yet since the feature is only a couple of years old?
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      08-14-2012, 06:04 AM   #5
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I thought M3s with Stop/Start had an electric water pump?
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      08-14-2012, 07:44 AM   #6
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Something tells me it can be that simple IDK
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      08-14-2012, 11:10 AM   #7
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nice feature
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      08-14-2012, 11:18 AM   #8
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Dumb question. In a manual what triggers the start? Pressing of the clutch?

Ooops sorry! I jumped to the question without first watching the video. You clearly stated pressing the clutch restarts the car!
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      08-14-2012, 11:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L4ces View Post
Dumb question. In a manual what triggers the start? Pressing of the clutch?

Ooops sorry! I jumped to the question without first watching the video. You clearly stated pressing the clutch restarts the car!

Some more information for you guys on the Start Stop (MSA) system..

The Automatic Start/Stop (MSA) system was first introduced on European E8x, E9x vehicles in conjunction with manual transmission and four-cylinder engines.

It is one more BMW Efficient Dynamics measure aimed at meeting the voluntary commitment of reducing CO2 emissions while enhancing fuel economy.


The MSA system lowers fuel consumption and emissions by automatically switching the engine off when the car is stationary. The engine is subsequently restarted automatically as well, as soon as the appropriate conditions for restarting are satisfied.


Although the F04 ActiveHybrid 7 uses the MSA function it was never offered in the US in a non hybrid model until its introduction on the E90 M3 (MT and DCT) in 9/2010.


With the introduction of the E89 Z4 sDrive28i (MT) and F10 528i in September 2011 to the US market MSA has been offered as standard equipment. This coincideds with the US launch of the N20 4 cylinder engines in these models.
The F10 535i and F12 640i with the N55 engine are also available with MSA as standard equipment at this time.

While MSA I is installed in BN2000 models Fxx vehicles use the second generation of MSA (MSA II) which has been further developed to operate in combination with automatic transmissions and the BN2020 electrical system.

The MSA function can only be performed under certain conditions.
The engine is switched off if:
. the vehicle is stationary (speed below 3 kph/2 mph)
. the vehicle has been driven at over >5 kph/3 mph since the last time the engine was stopped
. the vehicle has been driven at over >5 kph/3 mph since the last time terminal 15 was switched over
. the manual gearbox is in neutral
. the clutch pedal is not depressed
. the steering wheel is not being turned
. the engine speed is approximately idling speed

The engine is restarted in response to driver action if:
. the gearbox is in neutral (see section on neutral position sensor) and the clutch pedal is depressed (10%)
. the gear lever is in the extended neutral zone (see section on neutral position sensor) and the clutch pedal is depressed (90%)

The engine is restarted without action by the driver (only if switched off by MSA if:
. the vehicle starts rolling (5 kph/3 mph forwards or backwards)
. the brake system pressure falls below a defined threshold
. the battery charge level falls below a defined threshold
. the misting sensor detects misting on the windshield (IHKA)
. the evaporator temperature exceeds a certain threshold while the air-conditioning compressor is switched on

The basic condition for restarting the engine is that the manual gearbox is in neutral.

A precise description of all the conditions and exceptions that determine whether or not the MSA can operate is provided in the section "Stop inhibitors and start enablers". External conditions such as the outside temperature can result in the MSA function being unavailable for extended periods.

The MSA function is always activated when the engine is not running, terminal 15 is switched on and a so-called "driving cycle" is initiated. The MSA can be switched off by means of the MSA button.

With the MSA, the starter motor has significantly more work to do. Therefore, it has been designed for substantially more (approx. 8 times as many) starting cycles. The components of the starter motor have been adapted to the higher demands

I hope this helps inform you guys more about how the system works

Benvo
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      08-14-2012, 02:20 PM   #10
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why would you want this?? or PDC to clutter up the bumpers?
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      08-14-2012, 02:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talontid View Post
why would you want this?? or PDC to clutter up the bumpers?
Part of it has to do with what we do. Customers are looking to get what they don't have so doing these kinds of projects shows both our ability plus the fact that we can do it on any year car that didn't have it from the factory.
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      08-14-2012, 07:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talontid View Post
why would you want this?? or PDC to clutter up the bumpers?
Front PDC is extremely useful to me. I had it on my E60 M5 and was very disapointed that my fully optioned M3 didn't have it. Great when parallel parking or turning around in really tight spaces. I can get within 3 inches of the wall every time. It's really tough to get into my space and PDC makes it easier.

Plus I like to have every feature possible. This tech stuff runs in my blood
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      08-14-2012, 08:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Front PDC is extremely useful to me. I had it on my E60 M5 and was very disapointed that my fully optioned M3 didn't have it. Great when parallel parking or turning around in really tight spaces. I can get within 3 inches of the wall every time. It's really tough to get into my space and PDC makes it easier.

Plus I like to have every feature possible. This tech stuff runs in my blood
specially if you lived in LOS ANGELES... its a bitch to find a parking spot... and if you do.. its a tight fit..
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      08-14-2012, 08:42 PM   #14
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Retrofitting a feature nobody wanted to begin with....awesome....
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      08-14-2012, 08:50 PM   #15
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I jumped to the question without first watching the video
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      08-14-2012, 09:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
Retrofitting a feature nobody wanted to begin with....awesome....
Some people actually use it daily. I've had many people ask me to remotely code start/stop memory so they don't have to keep turning it on.

I'm seriously considering updating my started and alternator to the 2012 version. I was looking through technical data between the two starters, and the one that came with start/stop enabled cars is eight times more beefy. It has all sorts of upgrades to be able to support the feature.

So that will be my next project. I'm too curious to see if it really increases fuel economy, so might as well test it myself.
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      08-14-2012, 09:43 PM   #17
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Pretty cool that this is possible! Since the new parts are that much beefier than the previous years, would it be a safe assumption that the new units are a ton more $$$ to buy?
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      08-14-2012, 09:53 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Some people actually use it daily. I've had many people ask me to remotely code start/stop memory so they don't have to keep turning it on.

I'm seriously considering updating my started and alternator to the 2012 version. I was looking through technical data between the two starters, and the one that came with start/stop enabled cars is eight times more beefy. It has all sorts of upgrades to be able to support the feature.

So that will be my next project. I'm too curious to see if it really increases fuel economy, so might as well test it myself.
So starter and alternator are different, what about the water pump?
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      08-14-2012, 10:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
So starter and alternator are different, what about the water pump?
I am not sure, but I think it's the same, I'll have to check.

As far as the starter, it features:
-Reinforced forked lever
-Lubricant coated relay armature
-Stronger relay springs
-stronger/higher power starter motor
-higher flux/demagnetization resistant magnets
-upgraded design of planetary gears
-more teeth on the pinion
-needle roller bearing for starter driveshaft

MikeM5: I will check on pricing, but leaving the country tomorrow so might have to revisit this when I return. I would think that it would be a bit more expensive for the starter particularly, and the the alternator will be slightly more.
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      08-15-2012, 01:20 AM   #20
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Wow so the 2012 and 2013 M3's come with this dreaded feature? Good thing you are figuring this stuff out Mike as I will need someone to disable it. Thanks.
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      08-15-2012, 01:53 AM   #21
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Most people do not like this feature but I think it's quite useful in stop and go. On the ECE fuel consumption cycle it makes about 10% difference in fuel economy. Yes, I know, the cycle might not be representative, just saying .

However, it is really impressive to be able to retrofit this feature. It shows a great deal of competence and knowledge to be able to figure this out. Consider it as a demonstration of what can be done but not necessarily has to be done.
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      08-15-2012, 06:14 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Wow so the 2012 and 2013 M3's come with this dreaded feature? Good thing you are figuring this stuff out Mike as I will need someone to disable it. Thanks.
Uh, it's disabled by default on M3s. Unless you press a button to activate, you'd never know the car has it. And the feature has been standard since Sept2010 production (MY2011.5) onward.
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