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      07-18-2007, 04:16 AM   #1
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Autocar Front Cover Says It All

I think we can now agree that we have a fair idea of what the new M3 is about.

Some very worrying cooments in the article concerning the traction on less than smooth roads, infact

"On one particular stretch the M3 was borderline incompetent at putting power down; even in third on a bone dry surface the traction control light was almost permanently aglow."

Concludes that the engine is better in the M3, but this alone is not sufficient to save the M3 from suffering a deeply surprising defeat in the hands of the, RS4....in all other areas, you name it the RS4 takes it.

I think i'll await reviews of the DCT tranny - defo not buying the manual M3 now - how disappointing.

If anyone wants I'll post the article up next week after people have had the chance to buy it.
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      07-18-2007, 04:23 AM   #2
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i will have to wait and read the article...

some reviews say strange things on why a car is better than the other, some are stupid like "it doesnt have the wow factor" or "better in everything except the price"...

so i need to read the article ...
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      07-18-2007, 04:24 AM   #3
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I just wanna read 5th Gear and Topgear's comments after their track tests. I think Tiff Needel and Jeremy Clarkson(however funny he may be) are the ones who really know what they are talking about, as opposed to any Tom, Dick, Harry magazine editors.

I would also want to see the results of RS4 sedan vs M3 sedan, so called a red apple vs red apple comparison, instead of a RS4sedan vs M3 Coupe which is equivalent to a red apple vs green apple.
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      07-18-2007, 04:26 AM   #4
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I've just fired off an email, to say that traditionally the M3 has been a rival of the S4, in terms of comfort and luxury, but BMW have had to find their less focussed model going against Audi's more focussed model because they needed a power output that was comfortable against the next S4/5 during its life span. The CSL will be the true rival to the next RS4/5. Lest not forget, when Autocar preferred the M3 CS to the RS4 last year, the CS inherited the best parts of the CSL's steering and brakes, so had that more defined nature too.
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      07-18-2007, 04:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterBMW View Post
I just wanna read 5th Gear and Topgear's comments after their track tests. I think Tiff Needel and Jeremy Clarkson(however funny he may be) are the ones who really know what they are talking about, as opposed to any Tom, Dick, Harry magazine editors.

I would also want to see the results of RS4 sedan vs M3 sedan, so called a red apple vs red apple comparison, instead of a RS4sedan vs M3 Coupe which is equivalent to a red apple vs green apple.
Any Tom, Dick or Harry? Steve Sutcliffe has raced in the British Touring Car Championship, more than can be said for Clarkson.
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      07-18-2007, 04:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CSL View Post
I've just fired off an email, to say that traditionally the M3 has been a rival of the S4, in terms of comfort and luxury, but BMW have had to find their less focussed model going against Audi's more focussed model because they needed a power output that was comfortable against the next S4/5 during its life span. The CSL will be the true rival to the next RS4/5. Lest not forget, when Autocar preferred the M3 CS to the RS4 last year, the CS inherited the best parts of the CSL's steering and brakes, so had that more defined nature too.
i still feel that M3 goes with RS4, the CS is more sport/race-oriented car...

my opinion, BMW should make the M3 vs RS4
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      07-18-2007, 04:37 AM   #7
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The CS had the CSL steering rack and brakes and a heavier set of CSL-style wheels, but the same power and interior as the regular M3.
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      07-18-2007, 05:14 AM   #8
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Oh no!
EVERYBODY! CANCEL YOUR DEPOSITS FOR THE M3 AND GET A RS4!
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      07-18-2007, 05:19 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by BNR32 View Post
Oh no!
EVERYBODY! CANCEL YOUR DEPOSITS FOR THE M3 AND GET A RS4!
Well, if people were looking for the most enjoyable car for 50k, it would seem the RS4 is just that - more enjoyable.
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      07-18-2007, 05:31 AM   #10
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I don't think it's the case that everyone should cancel their depsoits and get an RS4, it's just plain disappointing that the new M3 is not the car we we're all hoping for. The E46 M3 CS just pipped the RS4 (same author - same magazine) - thus I for one am disappointed in the new M3's results.
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      07-18-2007, 07:29 AM   #11
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Since I find the RS4 dull and not that pleasant to drive, the new M3 must be a tad rubbish. Mercedes! I am sorry a said all those nasty things about you? Can I come back? Please? C63AMG???
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      07-18-2007, 08:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moss View Post
I think we can now agree that we have a fair idea of what the new M3 is about.

Some very worrying cooments in the article concerning the traction on less than smooth roads, infact

"On one particular stretch the M3 was borderline incompetent at putting power down; even in third on a bone dry surface the traction control light was almost permanently aglow."

Concludes that the engine is better in the M3, but this alone is not sufficient to save the M3 from suffering a deeply surprising defeat in the hands of the, RS4....in all other areas, you name it the RS4 takes it.

I think i'll await reviews of the DCT tranny - defo not buying the manual M3 now - how disappointing.

If anyone wants I'll post the article up next week after people have had the chance to buy it.

What good does it do to post this if you are not going to post the whole article? Let us all read and decide for ourselves instead of taking your view.
Appreciate all the reviews you have been posting though.
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      07-18-2007, 08:46 AM   #13
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RS5 is supposedly a vastly improved car compared to RS4.
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      07-18-2007, 08:49 AM   #14
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oh oh! A magazine said the RS4 is better than the M3... the dream is over! Run quickly and buy and RS4 before they run out!

Seriously guys... why let a magazine be the judge... we're all here for the love of the M3 so forget the comparison tests and just accept that this the M3.
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      07-18-2007, 08:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CSL View Post
I've just fired off an email, to say that traditionally the M3 has been a rival of the S4, in terms of comfort and luxury, but BMW have had to find their less focussed model going against Audi's more focussed model because they needed a power output that was comfortable against the next S4/5 during its life span. The CSL will be the true rival to the next RS4/5. Lest not forget, when Autocar preferred the M3 CS to the RS4 last year, the CS inherited the best parts of the CSL's steering and brakes, so had that more defined nature too.

Some what off topic but I'm curious as to why you use "Beemer" in your sig?

Does that mean you own a BMW motorcycle?
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      07-18-2007, 08:57 AM   #16
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Thanks for posting it. My newsagent was out of Autocar this morning!.
How many people do you think will be seriously influenced by the reviews?. Isn't there a large number of people who will buy because its BMW, an M3, more bling etc etc?.
I do think that BMW pitched the E46 just perfectly when it was launched. Audi S cars were ok but never really raved about, AMG overpriced and just about power. I remember lusting after the E46 in 2000/2001 and seeing 18mth old models on forecourts with 20,000 miles for nearly list price!.
BMW DO make flops and this must be remembered - the CSL was highly speculated on and prices bombed.
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      07-18-2007, 08:59 AM   #17
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I will post the whole article, but only when next weeks magazine is out - i would urge those who can to buy this weeks edition it is a really good review and read.
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      07-18-2007, 09:01 AM   #18
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I will post the whole article, but only when next weeks magazine is out - i would urge those who can to buy this weeks edition it is a really good review and read.
OK, so why did you make this post then if you are going to wait till next week?
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      07-18-2007, 09:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
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OK, so why did you make this post then if you are going to wait till next week?
Is this your way of thanking the guy?
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      07-18-2007, 09:06 AM   #20
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Please note BMW is going Audi way.

M vs S, and CSL / CS vs RS.

In fact the badges / cars are positioned (also price wise) like this: S < M < RS < CSL/CS.

M cars will be positioned & designed to attract more customers then ever. While CSL models will be pure aficionado cars. That's the fact. And such decision was necessary due the increased competition. If M cars were too hard core, only aficionados would buy them - not good for the business. So, M goes more mainstream, while CSL/CS will please aficionados, and preserve BMW image as "Ultimate Driving Machine".

Btw, every M / CSL model will also get unique personality & identity. Some will be more raw and hardcore than others (eg. Z4M & M1 vs M3 & M6).

Regarding E92 M3: the car is very capable, and be sure to test drive it. Then all your doubts will go away.

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      07-18-2007, 09:06 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002 Tii View Post
Is this your way of thanking the guy?
No, this is. Did you read this page?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Appreciate all the reviews you have been posting though.
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      07-18-2007, 09:13 AM   #22
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yes... but it's an Audi. If you like bimmers, then the RS4 isn't on your shopping list. right?
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