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      07-24-2012, 12:10 PM   #1
mrkhanna16
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Track...A bad Idea?

I have been contemplating going to the track for the sole purpose of being able to drive my car without getting a ticket. But after hearing horrific story after another about people crashing at the track and having to eat up the costs it has become apparent to me that tracking may be a bad idea. The risk that I would be willing to take on for a day at the track is so overwhelming that speeding on public roads and receiving a few fines is extremely cheaper. I feel that this argument is valid as long as you do not buy track insurance. Food for though??
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      07-24-2012, 12:12 PM   #2
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You crash your car on public roads and insurance has your back......you crash it on the track and ur screwed....?
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      07-24-2012, 12:19 PM   #3
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Just don't go to a public track day..sign up as a novice and get an instructor. The last thing you want to do is kill someone just because you somehow think it's safer and cheaper to speed on public roads.
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      07-24-2012, 12:20 PM   #4
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Uh. Obviously you are driving even faster on the track than on the road … that is why you crash. If you drove at the same speed thresholds on the track that you would while speeding in a public road you would not crash. People ignore the sense of self preservation or harm to others on the track and hence go fast enough to crash.

If the chance didnt exist that I'd pass you on the road I'd let natural selection take it's course.
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      07-24-2012, 12:21 PM   #5
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some tracks are safer than others... some cars are easier to drive than others. sometimes its best to learn on a 120HP miata than a 400HP M3. but if you already have the M3 all you can really do is not run race rubber (higher speeds, harder to save/stop a spin) and to bring a good attitude

a good place to learn how to control a vehicle is indoor or outdoor gokarting
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      07-24-2012, 12:30 PM   #6
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one of the stupidest posts yet.. Safer and cheaper to speed on the street?? Go for it!!!



If you can't afford to "fix" your car or gamble with racing it, you need to either race a cheaper car, or don't race at all

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      07-24-2012, 12:34 PM   #7
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one of the stupidest posts yet.. Safer and cheaper to speed on the street?? Go for it!!!



If you can't afford to "fix" your car or gamble with racing it, you need to either race a cheaper car, or don't race at all

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Stupid....Canyon driving in OC is very similar to the track as many of my buddies have mentioned that experiment with both. Please bring a better attitude when posting on my threads or don't post at all. Thanks.

As for the rest of the comments. I appreciate the info
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      07-24-2012, 12:43 PM   #8
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Buy track insurance and you're covered. Some insurance companies will cover it but there is a whole different thread about that...

Or find a cheap E30, put a little bit of money into it and if you ball it up for the most part you're not out too much. That is what I've done and IMO the E30 is a MUCH better platform to learn on than the E9X M3. A bit more "analog" than "digital" and it forces you to become a better driver I feel.
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      07-24-2012, 12:44 PM   #9
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Go to the track with a recognized group (like ChinMotorsports, PCA, PBOC, Rezoom, etc). A group that insists on having instructors with novices.

You will not regret it for a second
You may decide after that to not do it again, or you may get hooked
You don't have to change anything on your car for the first day
Do take track insurance
Budget $400 for the track day, $350 for track insurance, 2 tanks of gas, and your travel costs
Your car is one of the safest out there - even though its powerful, its easy to learn in

DO NOT DRIVE AT THE LIMIT ON THE STREET
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      07-24-2012, 12:50 PM   #10
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Ive tracked my evo 8 6 times and I LOVE IT. I plan on tracking M3 when I get my. Just ordered today!

But when you do go to track like everyone said just get instructor and drive easy. No one is forcing you to go fast...they just pass you.

I plan on driving with an instructor for my first RWD car even tho with the evo I was able to drive alone. But I definitely plan on taking it there. You will learn a great deal about your car.
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      07-24-2012, 12:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkhanna16 View Post
Canyon driving in OC is very similar to the track as many of my buddies have mentioned that experiment with both.
I disagree COMPLETELY. Canyon driving is full of unknowns (unsafe blind turns, junk on the road, 2 way traffic) and your focus is split between driving fast and hoping there's not a cop 100 yards down the road.

The track is design for going fast and there are flag stations at every corner so you have early warning to any upcoming road conditions that might arise. Not to mention you can drive the car much harder knowing you might run off into dirt/gravel (depending on the course) instead of through a guard rail. You can practice truly driving fast by learning to drive on the race line and hitting proper apexes. You can't hit any apex on a 2 way windy road without huge risk.

Driving in the canyons is nowhere near as satisfying nor as safe as driving at the track. It's just cheaper and you probably see some nice scenery. I also don't think it makes you much of a better driver like driving at the track does.

So yes if you want to really push your car and become a better driver, there's no better place than at the track. You just need to pick the right events with the right instruction.
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      07-24-2012, 01:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I disagree COMPLETELY. Canyon driving is full of unknowns (unsafe blind turns, junk on the road, 2 way traffic) and your focus is split between driving fast and hoping there's not a cop 100 yards down the road.

The track is design for going fast and there are flag stations at every corner so you have early warning to any upcoming road conditions that might arise. Not to mention you can drive the car much harder knowing you might run off into dirt/gravel (depending on the course) instead of through a guard rail. You can practice truly driving fast by learning to drive on the race line and hitting proper apexes. You can't hit any apex on a 2 way windy road without huge risk.

Driving in the canyons is nowhere near as satisfying nor as safe as driving at the track. It's just cheaper and you probably see some nice scenery. I also don't think it makes you much of a better driver like driving at the track does.

So yes if you want to really push your car and become a better driver, there's no better place than at the track. You just need to pick the right events with the right instruction.
+1000. The track is a much safer environment than canyons IMHO as well.
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      07-24-2012, 01:44 PM   #13
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Take your car out to autocross to learn car control, proper track lines and how to hit apexes.

You can drive at 100% with no worry about crashing your car. If you hit a rubber cone, it isn't that bad.
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      07-24-2012, 02:06 PM   #14
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You bought a track ready car..well except for the brakes...put some good fluid in your brakes...and a set of front pads and your M3 will amaze you at a HPDE as mentioned it is a good idea to go with an instuctor for the day...play with your M cofigurations if your car is capable...you will become a MUCH better street driver after learning how to properly drive your car...keep your dsc on...MDM will act like grandma and reel you in if you try a dumb input... You wil go out in a novice group with other drivers with instuctors in their cars to keep it all safe...you have forgiving track day car...search other treads for tire pressures and other set-up advice...and GO ENJOY YOUR CAR FOR WHAT IT IS DESIGNED TO DO!
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      07-24-2012, 02:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I disagree COMPLETELY. Canyon driving is full of unknowns (unsafe blind turns, junk on the road, 2 way traffic) and your focus is split between driving fast and hoping there's not a cop 100 yards down the road.

The track is design for going fast and there are flag stations at every corner so you have early warning to any upcoming road conditions that might arise. Not to mention you can drive the car much harder knowing you might run off into dirt/gravel (depending on the course) instead of through a guard rail. You can practice truly driving fast by learning to drive on the race line and hitting proper apexes. You can't hit any apex on a 2 way windy road without huge risk.

Driving in the canyons is nowhere near as satisfying nor as safe as driving at the track. It's just cheaper and you probably see some nice scenery. I also don't think it makes you much of a better driver like driving at the track does.

So yes if you want to really push your car and become a better driver, there's no better place than at the track. You just need to pick the right events with the right instruction.
This. At the track you drive on a closed course with an instructor. There are flag stations which means there are people watching both the drivers and the track conditions. They will warn you if there are unsafe conditions such as debris or oil. Unsafe drivers get pulled off. There is also generally no passing unless you are in a designated passing area and waive another driver through. Driving at the track is much safer than driving on the street, no question. I am not going to preach about unsafe driving on the street, but there really is no comparison.
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      07-24-2012, 02:12 PM   #16
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You're in SoCal.
Are you a BMWCCA member? They run a totally SAFE track day experience, particularly for the novices. There should be an event coming up in November/December.

Keep DSC on and you'd have to be an idiot to crash. A lot of those crashes occur because people turn off DSC when you're not ready. My instructor went out in MDM mode and it never activated. If you're smooth, it doesn't get in the way for 99% of the people out there.

.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      07-24-2012, 02:22 PM   #17
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What he said ^
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      07-24-2012, 02:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I disagree COMPLETELY. Canyon driving is full of unknowns (unsafe blind turns, junk on the road, 2 way traffic) and your focus is split between driving fast and hoping there's not a cop 100 yards down the road.

The track is design for going fast and there are flag stations at every corner so you have early warning to any upcoming road conditions that might arise. Not to mention you can drive the car much harder knowing you might run off into dirt/gravel (depending on the course) instead of through a guard rail. You can practice truly driving fast by learning to drive on the race line and hitting proper apexes. You can't hit any apex on a 2 way windy road without huge risk.

Driving in the canyons is nowhere near as satisfying nor as safe as driving at the track. It's just cheaper and you probably see some nice scenery. I also don't think it makes you much of a better driver like driving at the track does.

So yes if you want to really push your car and become a better driver, there's no better place than at the track. You just need to pick the right events with the right instruction.
Agree completely as well. Nothing you do on a public road can recreate what you can do on a track. The cornering speeds that are achievable on track are just not possible on public roads, unless you have complete disregard for opposing traffic and all the other road hazards. A lot of people who think that they can drive fast on the road and therefore be decent on a proper track, have greatly misjudged their abilities. Driving on a track is statistically safer than most public road driving, but caution should obviously be exercised. Drive within your limits and be wary of others around you and you will be fine. Get track insurance if possible.
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      07-24-2012, 02:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkhanna16 View Post
Stupid....Canyon driving in OC is very similar to the track as many of my buddies have mentioned that experiment with both. Please bring a better attitude when posting on my threads or don't post at all. Thanks.

As for the rest of the comments. I appreciate the info

well I used to ride my MC religiously in those canyons and every ass racing in a car going over the double yellow IS the prob so thanks! While the road may be a similar layout IT IS NOTHING LIKE A TRACK... Really proving your ignorance w/ these posts.
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      07-24-2012, 03:24 PM   #20
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Echo most of the comments here. Go to the track with an organized group during a DE and get an instructor. Don't feel pressured to push it and don't go 100%. Take your time to learn the dynamics of the car, proper driving, and remember that spirited driving isn't all about top speed.

Also remember, having the ability to slow down/stop quicker is more important than being able to speed up faster. At the very minimum, change your fluid and pads before the event. Have fun and be safe.
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      07-24-2012, 03:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkhanna16 View Post
I have been contemplating going to the track for the sole purpose of being able to drive my car without getting a ticket. But after hearing horrific story after another about people crashing at the track and having to eat up the costs it has become apparent to me that tracking may be a bad idea. The risk that I would be willing to take on for a day at the track is so overwhelming that speeding on public roads and receiving a few fines is extremely cheaper. I feel that this argument is valid as long as you do not buy track insurance. Food for though??
Food for thought, sure. I think most who have tracked without track insurance have considered the risks. I certainly have.

Seems that one of the biggest misconceptions on the part of those who have never participated is that a track day is inevitably where crazy happens. Where people and their cars are just barely in control, pushed to the brink of disaster at every turn. You're lucky to emerge without damage. It's a RACE track after all...

The truth is, for the most part your risk factor is controlled by you, and that unlike a public road, the track is engineered to accommodate cars at high speeds. I've never once felt out of control, or at excessive risk in dozens of sessions at numerous tracks. If I did, well, I'd just pit or leave the event altogether. It's not Death Race.

No doubt that there's an inherent, unavoidable risk in the activity, and that if you don't have track day insurance and have a serious incident you are probably screwed. If that's enough reason for you not to try it, that's an understandable position. It's worth the risk to me though.

As others have suggested, join a track day with a reputable organization, enroll as a novice requiring instruction, don't lose your head, and you'll be fine. If you just can't get over the chance of an incident and the lack of coverage, then purchase track day insurance. I did once when I went to an unknown track with some rather close walls..
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      07-24-2012, 04:27 PM   #22
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If you like having money in your wallet and being able to sleep at night don't do it. You will become a depraved addict in 30 minutes and will be done for for life. You will contemplate tire, brake, suspension setups while your supposed to be working, sleeping, or lsitening to your wife. Its like crack. The track is full of the worst junkies. You soon won't care about the cosmetic appeal of your car and will laugh off rock chips and hot rubber marks everywhere. You will start thinking about how much use you could get out of the car without any interior and if your wife will notice. Your garage will turn into a parts warehouse for tires and brakes. You will get up at 2 in the morning because it seemed like a good time to rotate your track tires and bleed the brakes. Beware.
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